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NY Times on 38 Studios

NYTimes.com offers "Curt Schilling, Rhode Island and the Fall of 38 Studios," a very lengthy and detailed look at the startup studio that ended up costing baseball star Curt Schilling and the state of Rhode Island a lot of money. Nobody comes out looking too good after all this, as the article details the na´vetÚ of game development neophyte Schilling taking on the most ambitious type of game in undertaking an MMORPG, and the sketchy history of politics in Rhode Island ("Rhode Islanders are used to being played by their politicians. What makes them cringe is the suspicion that virtually all their elected leaders might have been played by someone else."). They touch on an interstate rivalry with Massachusetts which played a part in Rhode Island's overreach here, and the behind-the-scenes machinations to facilitate the state's hefty loan to the company, which prompted the one dissenting voter to say: "Scandal finds money." The article is filled with detail on problems inherent in this situation, such as 38 Studios needing to control costs at the same time they were trying to live up to the pumped-up promise that they would bring new jobs to the state and how former 38 Studios CEO Brett Close urged releasing Amalur in smaller phases, rather than "trying to build the skyscraper horizontally and then standing it up." They sum up the current legal proceedings between Rhode Island and Schilling, and offer this interesting take: "At bottom, 38 Studios may be that rare political scandal that grew not from any lies that anyone told the public, but from the stories that desperate politicians told themselves." Thanks nin via Kotaku.

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30. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 14:13 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:24:
LittleMe wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:22:
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:09:
Yes, the market supports prices being through the roof and athletes being paid extreme salaries.
Much like the market supports the goods you buy being manufactured in China and the US-based CEOs being paid extreme salaries.

Well a big contributor to our manufacturing base moving to China is, imo, due to Fed (reserve) policy and our Federal debt. The Chinese and many other countries own a huge amount of our debt. Yes, it's a market force, but it's centrally planned and managed. So this isn't free-market economics at work in this case. It's anti free-market economics at work.


8%. China has 8% of our debt.

Your analysis of the cause is incorrect.

Try 26% of our debt is owed to China, it's far higher than 8% not sure who's ass you're pulling that number out of.
 
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29. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 14:12 RollinThundr
 
Creston wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:20:
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:09:
So, don't like it - don't buy it?

More like: Don't want to pay 200 - 450 dollars? How about you spend 50? Seriously, 450 bucks? Do you get lapdances while watching the game? I've been to 8 different ballparks, have never spent more than 25-35 bucks on a ticket, and have always had great seats. Yes, you can spend that much if you want to, but don't act like a family has no other choice BUT to pay that much if it wants to see a ballgame. (admittedly this is MLB only. I don't think the NBA has any such deals, nor does the NFL.)

Can't we turn that around to why we're saddled with tons of shitty microtransaction based games? Because the market supports it?

I think EA and its ilk are at least smart enough to realize that microtransactions are a source of income. You are perfectly free to buy the games without MTs in them.

Of course, sometimes it doesn't work out quite right. See: the Yankees 2012 playoff home games and all the empty seats.

Which is actually a perfect example of what I said. Ballparks charge what the market will bear. The Yankees believed their market would bear $2500 seats. The market proved them (largely) wrong, leading to them lowering their prices for most of their season tickets and single-seats this year.

Creston

Most NHL franchises do the same thing, tickets to go to a Boston Bruins game for example are expensive solo since Mr. Jacobs (he owns the building along with the concessions along with the team itself) is a greedy asshole, but they do offer family packs which knocks the price per ticket down to more reasonable dollar amounts.

As for MT's when people stop buying them, publishers will stop putting them in games. So far that hasn't been the case. And really as long as they're not cutting chunks of the game to sell as DLC I'm fine with it. No one is forced to buy boosts, or whatever via MT's. No one at EA or <insert publisher here> is holding a gun to your head forcing you to pay more than the cost of admission.

 
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28. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 12:21 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 12:07:
No, I get what you're saying. And, clearly, the metric they provide isn't quite right, as it includes buying 2 beers, 2 caps, etc.

But great. Not every team offers that. The Yankees don't. And the Mets do, but who knows how much it costs as their system is down now.

Fact remains that baseball games aren't cheap. Sporting events as a whole aren't cheap. Why? To pay those salaries. Are they necessary?

I genuinely hope to not see you complain about CEO salaries.

I think the Yankees are about the only team that doesn't offer a family pack, but I think they still have their Bleacher Creatures deal? (which was something like 4 bleacher tickets for 50 bucks.) But yes, obviously it's more expensive in certain ballparks vs others. On the other hand, most ballparks have 5 or 10 dollar seats, and nobody is forcing you to buy your hotdogs at the ballpark.

Your CEO analogy is comparing apples to oranges. The price of a ticket is of direct influence to me. I can choose to pay said price and watch the game, or I can choose not to and not get to watch the game. The CEO's salary is of no direct influence to me. I don't stand in a store going "Well, this is a good product, but their CEO makes too much money, so I'm not going to buy it."

Sporting events aren't cheap, no. But you can choose to partake in them, or you can choose not to. If it's too expensive for you, find something else to be interested in. Or buy a 5 dollar ticket and sit in the corner of the bleachers.

I don't know if those high salaries are necessary, no, but then again, is YOUR salary necessary? It's quite franly a weird question. And what's the alternative? The government steps in and mandates salaries for professional sports? (and before anyone spouts off with a "SALARY CAP!!!" remark, I'd like to point out that the one league that has a hard salary cap, the NFL, also has BY FAR the highest ticket prices for its fans. So the benefits of a Salary Cap ONLY go to the billionaire owners, not to you, the fan.)

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
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27. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 12:08 Beamer
 
Julio wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:36:
LittleMe wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:22:
The Chinese and many other countries own a huge amount of our debt.

Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:24:
8%. China has 8% of our debt.

And other countries besides China own another 38% or so of the US debt. Not that I'm agreeing with LittleMe on why our manufacturing base is moving to China. To me, it's a matter of corporations offshoring to increase profits, and consumers not caring where they buy from. There's a large amount of people buying non-US cars, they don't care if they buy goods from China either.

Whenever this much money vanishes, I still think it's worth an investigation to see if any of it stuck to Curt or the politicians' hands.

Well, Curt is broke, and the politicians have no money, so no, this is not a case of fraud or corruption. It's a case of ineptitude and people being star-struck.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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26. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 12:07 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:35:
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:26:
If only the cost for a family of four to see a game was a standard benchmark of baseball franchises.

Are you even capable of comprehending what I'm saying? The metric you provided is an AVERAGE cost, which means they literally take every single seat in the stadium, and average out the price. I've never said you CAN'T spend that.

I said if you don't feel like spending that, then don't spend it, and buy a fucking family pack. (which has admittedly gone up in price since last I was at the Rangers' ballpark, but it now also includes mandatory kids' zone tickets, which, for the Rangers at least, it never used to.)

Creston


No, I get what you're saying. And, clearly, the metric they provide isn't quite right, as it includes buying 2 beers, 2 caps, etc.

But great. Not every team offers that. The Yankees don't. And the Mets do, but who knows how much it costs as their system is down now.

Fact remains that baseball games aren't cheap. Sporting events as a whole aren't cheap. Why? To pay those salaries. Are they necessary?

I genuinely hope to not see you complain about CEO salaries.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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25. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:36 Julio
 
LittleMe wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:22:
The Chinese and many other countries own a huge amount of our debt.

Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:24:
8%. China has 8% of our debt.

And other countries besides China own another 38% or so of the US debt. Not that I'm agreeing with LittleMe on why our manufacturing base is moving to China. To me, it's a matter of corporations offshoring to increase profits, and consumers not caring where they buy from. There's a large amount of people buying non-US cars, they don't care if they buy goods from China either.

Whenever this much money vanishes, I still think it's worth an investigation to see if any of it stuck to Curt or the politicians' hands.
 
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24. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:35 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:26:
If only the cost for a family of four to see a game was a standard benchmark of baseball franchises.

Are you even capable of comprehending what I'm saying? The metric you provided is an AVERAGE cost, which means they literally take every single seat in the stadium, and average out the price. I've never said you CAN'T spend that.

I said if you don't feel like spending that, then don't spend it, and buy a fucking family pack. (which has admittedly gone up in price since last I was at the Rangers' ballpark, but it now also includes mandatory kids' zone tickets, which, for the Rangers at least, it never used to.)

Creston

 
Avatar 15604
 
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23. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:32 Harlequin
 
A guy who spent most of his life playing a game for only 6 months out of a year, slapping other men on their arse and contradicting himself on his political views runs a company into the ground due to being inept? Shocking.  
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22. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:26 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:20:
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:09:
So, don't like it - don't buy it?

More like: Don't want to pay 200 - 450 dollars? How about you spend 50? Seriously, 450 bucks? Do you get lapdances while watching the game? I've been to 8 different ballparks, have never spent more than 25-35 bucks on a ticket, and have always had great seats. Yes, you can spend that much if you want to, but don't act like a family has no other choice BUT to pay that much if it wants to see a ballgame. (admittedly this is MLB only. I don't think the NBA has any such deals, nor does the NFL.)

Can't we turn that around to why we're saddled with tons of shitty microtransaction based games? Because the market supports it?

I think EA and its ilk are at least smart enough to realize that microtransactions are a source of income. You are perfectly free to buy the games without MTs in them.

Of course, sometimes it doesn't work out quite right. See: the Yankees 2012 playoff home games and all the empty seats.

Which is actually a perfect example of what I said. Ballparks charge what the market will bear. The Yankees believed their market would bear $2500 seats. The market proved them (largely) wrong, leading to them lowering their prices for most of their season tickets and single-seats this year.

Creston

If only the cost for a family of four to see a game was a standard benchmark of baseball franchises.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
21. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:24 Beamer
 
LittleMe wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:22:
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:09:
Yes, the market supports prices being through the roof and athletes being paid extreme salaries.
Much like the market supports the goods you buy being manufactured in China and the US-based CEOs being paid extreme salaries.

Well a big contributor to our manufacturing base moving to China is, imo, due to Fed (reserve) policy and our Federal debt. The Chinese and many other countries own a huge amount of our debt. Yes, it's a market force, but it's centrally planned and managed. So this isn't free-market economics at work in this case. It's anti free-market economics at work.


8%. China has 8% of our debt.

Your analysis of the cause is incorrect.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
20. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:24 LittleMe
 
Creston wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 10:48:
I can't help but feel that these criminal proceedings are just more wasted money in an effort to find a scapegoat.Creston

Yes exactly... And most will buy into it as a legitimate proceeding. As I said before. A witch hunt. It was a high risk venture.

 
Avatar 23321
 
Perpetual debt is slavery.
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19. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:22 LittleMe
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:09:
Yes, the market supports prices being through the roof and athletes being paid extreme salaries.
Much like the market supports the goods you buy being manufactured in China and the US-based CEOs being paid extreme salaries.

Well a big contributor to our manufacturing base moving to China is, imo, due to Fed (reserve) policy and our Federal debt. The Chinese and many other countries own a huge amount of our debt. Yes, it's a market force, but it's centrally planned and managed. So this isn't free-market economics at work in this case. It's anti free-market economics at work.

 
Avatar 23321
 
Perpetual debt is slavery.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
18. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:21 Creston
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:11:
Amazingly, I'm guessing the Yankees still made plenty of money last year.

The money they make off their YES network is insane. It's basically a printing press for million dollar bills.

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
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17. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:20 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:09:
So, don't like it - don't buy it?

More like: Don't want to pay 200 - 450 dollars? How about you spend 50? Seriously, 450 bucks? Do you get lapdances while watching the game? I've been to 8 different ballparks, have never spent more than 25-35 bucks on a ticket, and have always had great seats. Yes, you can spend that much if you want to, but don't act like a family has no other choice BUT to pay that much if it wants to see a ballgame. (admittedly this is MLB only. I don't think the NBA has any such deals, nor does the NFL.)

Can't we turn that around to why we're saddled with tons of shitty microtransaction based games? Because the market supports it?

I think EA and its ilk are at least smart enough to realize that microtransactions are a source of income. You are perfectly free to buy the games without MTs in them.

Of course, sometimes it doesn't work out quite right. See: the Yankees 2012 playoff home games and all the empty seats.

Which is actually a perfect example of what I said. Ballparks charge what the market will bear. The Yankees believed their market would bear $2500 seats. The market proved them (largely) wrong, leading to them lowering their prices for most of their season tickets and single-seats this year.

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
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16. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:18 Mr. Tact
 
Embarrassment is a lot easier to live with when you are busy counting the millions you have made. I wish I had problems like that.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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15. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:14 Beamer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 11:11:
Amazingly, I'm guessing the Yankees still made plenty of money last year.

Amazingly, having a half-empty stadium for the playoffs is an enormous embarrassment for a team that needs to prove itself the defining franchise more than it needs any money.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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14. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:11 Mr. Tact
 
Amazingly, I'm guessing the Yankees still made plenty of money last year.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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13. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 11:09 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 10:59:
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 10:53:
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 10:36:
Actually, the sports athletes and Hollywood stars making millions makes more sense. Many (most?) go to sporting events and movies because of those people. There isn't a single product I've bought because of a CEO.

Does a game for a family of four need to be a $200-$450 event?

You realize that you're perfectly welcome to NOT pay said prices, right? Most ballparks offer family deals where you get 4 tickets, 4 drinks and 4 hot dogs for typically right around 50 bucks. Ballparks (and other venues) charge what they think the market will bear. If the market pays said prices, whose fault is that?

Creston

So, don't like it - don't buy it?
Can't we turn that around to why we're saddled with tons of shitty microtransaction based games? Because the market supports it?

Yes, the market supports prices being through the roof and athletes being paid extreme salaries.
Much like the market supports the goods you buy being manufactured in China and the US-based CEOs being paid extreme salaries.

Of course, sometimes it doesn't work out quite right. See: the Yankees 2012 playoff home games and all the empty seats.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
12. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 10:59 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 10:53:
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 10:36:
Actually, the sports athletes and Hollywood stars making millions makes more sense. Many (most?) go to sporting events and movies because of those people. There isn't a single product I've bought because of a CEO.

Does a game for a family of four need to be a $200-$450 event?

You realize that you're perfectly welcome to NOT pay said prices, right? Most ballparks offer family deals where you get 4 tickets, 4 drinks and 4 hot dogs for typically right around 50 bucks. Ballparks (and other venues) charge what they think the market will bear. If the market pays said prices, whose fault is that?

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
11. Re: NY Times on 38 Studios Apr 22, 2013, 10:53 Beamer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 22, 2013, 10:36:
Actually, the sports athletes and Hollywood stars making millions makes more sense. Many (most?) go to sporting events and movies because of those people. There isn't a single product I've bought because of a CEO.

Does a game for a family of four need to be a $200-$450 event?
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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