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Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified

The Kickstarter page for Shadowrun Returns has word from Harebrained Schemes about their promise to provide a DRM-free version of the Shadowrun revival, and how this will and will not conflict with their plans to offer a version on Steam in addition to a standalone release. They explain that their license agreement with Microsoft actually requires the game and its DLC to include DRM, and while they managed to negotiate an exception to provide DRM-free editions of the game and the Berlin Campaign reward DLC for their backers, this will not apply to any other releases, so they will not be able to sell the game on GOG.com or in any other DRM-free way, and all future DLC after Berlin Campaign will be only release though Steam. So to sum this up: Kickstarter backers of Shadowrun Returns are entitled to a DRM-free standalone version of the game with editor and mod support (and future patches) as well as a DRM-free copy of the reward DLC, but if they want to purchase future DLC after that, they must install the Steam version (which is also included in their backer rewards). Thanks nin.

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18. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 17:08 Prez
 
I am not liking the idea of a kickstarter project team being dictated to by the likes of Microsoft. That seems to go against everything that kickstarter was founded for. This kind of stuff should have been made known to everyone before asking for a single penny of backer money.  
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17. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 17:02 MattyC
 
Dev wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 15:53:
Rattlehead wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 15:38:
Why would anyone want to sign a deal with Microsoft? They literally have no souls.
Because if they didn't they couldn't use the IP.

Which is sad because it makes no sense. The only game Microsoft made with the IP had absolutely nothing to do with the IP. It had the name and nothing else.
 
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16. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 16:51 Verno
 
Good try by Harebrained blaming Microsoft. With all the insanely stupid decisions coming from Microsoft, everyone will believe them.

Personally, I'll just say in my opinion, feels like fraud to me. Lying at worst, omitting the truth at best to backers.

I don't see why that would be the assumption, the kind of people interested in reviving old school franchises for Kickstarter projects aren't exactly the rahrah DRM type. They say they were forced to do so by the license holder and while I question why that wasn't established up front, I'm willing to accept these things happen in business and move on.
 
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15. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 16:25 Julio
 
Good try by Harebrained blaming Microsoft. With all the insanely stupid decisions coming from Microsoft, everyone will believe them.

Personally, I'll just say in my opinion, feels like fraud to me. Lying at worst, omitting the truth at best to backers.
 
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14. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 16:14 Wesp5
 
NKD wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 14:28:
You can self-publish on Steam...............

...but then Steam itself is nothing more than a DRM managment system disguising as a Online Distribution Service.
 
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13. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 15:53 Dev
 
Rattlehead wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 15:38:
Why would anyone want to sign a deal with Microsoft? They literally have no souls.
Because if they didn't they couldn't use the IP.
 
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12. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 15:38 Rattlehead
 
Why would anyone want to sign a deal with Microsoft? They literally have no souls.  
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11. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 15:26 Dev
 
nm  
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10. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 15:24 Sho
 
Ok, let me clarify: I believe they should have publicized the details of their licensing agreement with Microsoft with regard to what it allows them to do and what it doesn't. I'm getting the impression that they did not do that, which feels rather cagey to me.

You don't think that's relevant info for a potential investor? Kickstarter isn't a shop. It's a funding round. Investors have broader stakes than getting a pre-defined set of goods.

Edit: Posting overlapped with your edit covering the timeline.
 
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9. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 15:21 Dev
 
Sho wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 14:33:
I really liked what I saw in the gameplay vid, but this is something they should have clarified during the pitch stage. Did they?
From what I recall, they said they would give a DRM free version to backers.

Which they are.

The end.



Long multiple edits for details:
You can check the kickstarter page if you want to see the original reward levels on the right which say "A Digital Downloadable copy of the game, DRM free on PC, Mac, or Linux" you can also see the pitch video http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns

Summary/comparision pic of what the differences between the steam version and non DRM versions are:
link
Its mostly what I would expect, things like no automatic updating, etc.

Quote from the KS update that blue is referring to:

The reason is that our license to develop Shadowrun Returns actually requires that the game and its DLC be distributed under DRM. This didn’t come up earlier because the situation was complicated by the number of parties involved in the license and because the process was “ongoing”. Ultimately, we were able to successfully negotiate an exception with Microsoft for us to provide our Backers with a DRM-free version of the Kickstarter rewards

graphic of all the licensing and parties involved to get this:
link

In other words, they didn't know all this when the project was in the kickstarter stage, but they successfully negotiated to provide what was promised. We are lucky that MS didn't just refuse to allow any exceptions, then they would have had to provide DRM versions only.

The one thing someone could knock them for is they didn't specify that this DRM free choice was a backer exclusive that wouldn't be available in the future... because they DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME.

Its like saying "well I wanted the ipad 2 because of the longer battery life, but I didn't buy it when it was available and now its not available anymore so ZOMG!" (a hypothetical situation). Stuff gets discontinued. Things stop being available. Product End of Life happens. Special deals or bundles come and go.

If someone wasn't a backer and they hate DRM, tough luck. They shoulda backed when the DRM free option was available, for as little as $15.

This comment was edited on Apr 13, 2013, 15:38.
 
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8. Re: Out of the Blue Apr 13, 2013, 14:41 Slashman
 
Rigs wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 14:34:
Stupidity apparently knows no bounds. I had to read that news blurb three frakin' times before I completely understood the situation. This isn't even good enough to be half-assed backwards! It's more like inter-dimension, mirrored inside out - assed upside down! Having DRM for DRM's sake? Can't it just frakin' DIE already?! Obviously no one likes DRM, nor does it actually accomplish the very reason it's implemented! Geezus...


=-Rigs-=

You're asking for logic and reason from corporate suits... Mad
 
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7. Re: Out of the Blue Apr 13, 2013, 14:34 Rigs
 
Stupidity apparently knows no bounds. I had to read that news blurb three frakin' times before I completely understood the situation. This isn't even good enough to be half-assed backwards! It's more like inter-dimension, mirrored inside out - assed upside down! Having DRM for DRM's sake? Can't it just frakin' DIE already?! Obviously no one likes DRM, nor does it actually accomplish the very reason it's implemented! Geezus...


=-Rigs-=
 
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6. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 14:33 Sho
 
I really liked what I saw in the gameplay vid, but this is something they should have clarified during the pitch stage. Did they?  
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5. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 14:28 NKD
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 14:23:
So why did they even need a Publisher and of all the Publishers MICROSOFT?? You can self-publish on Steam...............

Microsoft isn't publishing the game, but they own the rights to making Shadowrun games, so they needed a license agreement for this game.
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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4. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 14:23 eRe4s3r
 
So why did they even need a Publisher and of all the Publishers MICROSOFT?? You can self-publish on Steam...............  
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3. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 13:56 Kajetan
 
NKD wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 13:48:
Why would Microsoft care if the game had DRM? They aren't publishing the title, most likely have already been paid their licensing fee, and have no stake in how many copies it sells. We need to kick the lawyers out of this industry.
Its MS. They like to shit on everything they touch.
 
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2. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 13:48 NKD
 
Why would Microsoft care if the game had DRM? They aren't publishing the title, most likely have already been paid their licensing fee, and have no stake in how many copies it sells. We need to kick the lawyers out of this industry.  
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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1. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 13:41 nin
 
I'm seriously jonsing for this...don't really care about the editor right now (it's neat, don't get me wrong, but I don't really have time to sit down and figure it out), but I wish they'd had an alpha/beta option for backers, as I would have paid extra for it...

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