Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception

The Providence Journal has more on the legal wrangling surrounding the bankruptcy of 38 Studios, as Rhode Island sued studio founder Curt Schilling and others over possible improprieties involved in loaning the developer millions to move to the state (thanks GameSpot). The report indicates Rhode Island is claiming 38 Studios knew they needed more money than they were borrowing to complete the project:
The people running videogame company 38 Studios apparently knew before moving here they didn't have enough money to finish their ambitious initial project and relied instead on speculative financial projections to run their studio, according to documents recently filed in R.I. Superior Court. Monday's court filings:

Whether the company's true financial picture or doubts raised by some people were communicated to then-Gov. Donald Carcieri or the R.I. Economic Development Corp. board is the central battleground of a lawsuit filed against company founder Curt Schilling and 13 other defendants.

Filings Monday by the state's lawyer show 38 Studios needed a full $75 million from Rhode Island, and then some, to have a chance to succeed. The company netted $50 million from an EDC bond sale. The lawyer, Max Wistow, alleges the shortfall was actively masked.
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30.
 
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception
Apr 9, 2013, 12:04
30.
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception Apr 9, 2013, 12:04
Apr 9, 2013, 12:04
 

Blaming the voters is bizarre for about 90 reasons.

For folks who bother to follow the details of this story --- they would know that the primary architects of this business deal werent elected but appointed. Very much off the radar. And everyone associated with the deal left those positions before the meltdown.

29.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 6, 2013, 18:44
29.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 6, 2013, 18:44
Apr 6, 2013, 18:44
 
Prez wrote on Apr 6, 2013, 16:20:
The above is the EXACT quote I was responding to asshole. So how bout you take your douchey attitude and go fuck off and die somewhere, m'kay?

Then learning to quote properly is your friend. And see, I made my point without the need for cursing or personal attacks. Sarcasm perhaps but not insults nor attacks. Might want to take notes, keyboard warrior.
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Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 6, 2013, 16:20
Prez
 
28.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 6, 2013, 16:20
Apr 6, 2013, 16:20
 Prez
 
NKD wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 14:47: If RI gave Schilling a check without so much as double checking his numbers, they deserved to lose every penny of it

The above is the EXACT quote I was responding to asshole. So how bout you take your douchey attitude and go fuck off and die somewhere, m'kay?
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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27.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 6, 2013, 11:33
27.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 6, 2013, 11:33
Apr 6, 2013, 11:33
 
Prez wrote on Apr 6, 2013, 10:43:
NKD wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 21:03:
Prez wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 20:41:
and they don't deserve to be out that money because their politicians are morons.

Oh really? Who elected them?

Yes - every politician won by 100% of the popular vote, and there was 100% voter turnout in every election. Rolleyes

ermm that is not what he said. He clearly pointed the finger at the people who did elect the pol's in question, not everyone nor those who don't vote. Reading comprehension is your friend.
26.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 6, 2013, 10:43
Prez
 
26.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 6, 2013, 10:43
Apr 6, 2013, 10:43
 Prez
 
NKD wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 21:03:
Prez wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 20:41:
and they don't deserve to be out that money because their politicians are morons.

Oh really? Who elected them?

Yes - every politician won by 100% of the popular vote, and there was 100% voter turnout in every election. Rolleyes
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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25.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 21:03
NKD
25.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 21:03
Apr 5, 2013, 21:03
NKD
 
Prez wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 20:41:
and they don't deserve to be out that money because their politicians are morons.

Oh really? Who elected them?
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
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24.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 20:41
Prez
 
24.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 20:41
Apr 5, 2013, 20:41
 Prez
 
NKD wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 14:47:
If RI gave Schilling a check without so much as double checking his numbers, they deserved to lose every penny of it.

I agree that the state government was completely moronic in how they threw money at Schilling and 38 Studios without a single clue about the business (or at the leastthe ability to recognize that Schilling's had no track record whatsoever in the business) but unfortunately it's the taxpayers' money, and they don't deserve to be out that money because their politicians are morons.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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23.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 19:25
23.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 19:25
Apr 5, 2013, 19:25
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 13:50:
Yes, if Schilling knew that this money wasn't definitely not enough to get them finished yet swore up and down it was then yes, they may have an argument.
But no one can ever truly say how much development will cost.

A EXACT cost? No. But a reasonable estimate? Yes. It's no secret it costs between 150-200 million to bring a AAA MMORPG to market. No number crunching I have ever read states it cost less then ~150 million. Yet living in unicorn land where math does not work the same way as our world, Curt told the state 75 million could do the job. Now is the state partly at fault? Yes. They should have done some research as I have and easily found out he was badly low balling what he needed. OTOH Curt, at best was a business buffoon, at worst lied to get the loan and either case shoulders a equal amount of the blame as well.
22.
 
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception
Apr 5, 2013, 19:17
22.
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception Apr 5, 2013, 19:17
Apr 5, 2013, 19:17
 
Hellbinder wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 11:28:
how do you need more than 75 million to make an MMO?

Its total bull.

A little google searching on your part would uncover to bring a AAA MMORPG to market requires between 150-200 million dollars. That includes all development costs & advertising over ~5 year period. That is the accepted AVERAGE cost. 75 million, at best is half of the needed funds unless you not doing a AAA rated game.

Clearly Curt cooked the books, claimed he could do more then he could with the money and was simply hoping for more funding before the money ran out to carry him on. Or better yet, I think he felt the SP CRPG was going to be Skyrim big, and that flush of profits would be able to make him coast the rest of the way. With Reckoning only being a modest hit it didn't bring in the payday he thought it would and his gamble failed.
21.
 
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception
Apr 5, 2013, 18:57
NKD
21.
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception Apr 5, 2013, 18:57
Apr 5, 2013, 18:57
NKD
 
Hump wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 17:35:
What IS know about Schilling thats been backed by individuals who have done projects with him (sports memorabilia dealers, etc) he is described as a difficult person to work with (another quote "a real prick"). Not sure if that played into this but Im sure it didnt help

To be fair if I interviewed people from your life who you've had dealings with, I could find at least a few to call you an enormous douchebag who should be hit by a truck. The same could be said of anybody, so that's not really any kind of relevant or useful information.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
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20.
 
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception
Apr 5, 2013, 18:54
20.
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception Apr 5, 2013, 18:54
Apr 5, 2013, 18:54
 
Hump wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 17:35:
From statements by him and his wife, they appear to have basically lost pretty much their entire fortune on this deal. While he's still making a nice salary by being on Baseball Tonight for ESPN, and there's no need to feel sorry for him, I do find the idea that they're now trying to pin criminal actions on him to be fucking disgusting.

The stories of his financial losses have been called into question. Im sure he got hit hard but depending on which story you read its all pretty vague.

What IS know about Schilling thats been backed by individuals who have done projects with him (sports memorabilia dealers, etc) he is described as a difficult person to work with (another quote "a real prick"). Not sure if that played into this but Im sure it didnt help

Unless he as making design decisions, I can't see how that matters. He fronted cash. He wasn't a designer or programmer.

If they had just done the RPG and moved from there, they might have had a chance. But this MMO-rush mentality killed everything.
19.
 
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception
Apr 5, 2013, 17:35
19.
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception Apr 5, 2013, 17:35
Apr 5, 2013, 17:35
 
From statements by him and his wife, they appear to have basically lost pretty much their entire fortune on this deal. While he's still making a nice salary by being on Baseball Tonight for ESPN, and there's no need to feel sorry for him, I do find the idea that they're now trying to pin criminal actions on him to be fucking disgusting.

The stories of his financial losses have been called into question. Im sure he got hit hard but depending on which story you read its all pretty vague.

What IS know about Schilling thats been backed by individuals who have done projects with him (sports memorabilia dealers, etc) he is described as a difficult person to work with (another quote "a real prick"). Not sure if that played into this but Im sure it didnt help
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Both the “left” and the “right” pretend they have the answer, but they are mere flippers on the same thalidomide baby, and the truth is that neither side has a clue."

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18.
 
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception
Apr 5, 2013, 17:17
18.
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception Apr 5, 2013, 17:17
Apr 5, 2013, 17:17
 
avianflu wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 13:17:
On the other hand, Schilling was gambling bigtime with losses imminent, he knew it, and I am fine with him taking an expensive soaking.

From statements by him and his wife, they appear to have basically lost pretty much their entire fortune on this deal. While he's still making a nice salary by being on Baseball Tonight for ESPN, and there's no need to feel sorry for him, I do find the idea that they're now trying to pin criminal actions on him to be fucking disgusting.

Yes, the company was incredibly poorly run. However, in the end, all he did was take the loan that was offered to his company. It's the fucking politicians' fault for floating that loan offer in the first place while undoubtedly doing absolutely ZERO due diligence on the entire deal.

But again, the politicians will NEVER be hit with any criminal proceedings because, well shit, they're politicians. These days, being in government is just about synonymous with being in the Mob, only you have better protection.

Creston
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17.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 16:28
17.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 16:28
Apr 5, 2013, 16:28
 
NKD wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 14:47:
If RI gave Schilling a check without so much as double checking his numbers, they deserved to lose every penny of it.

I live in RI. Allen Dershowitz once claimed it to be the most corrupt states in the union. While there WAS a rush on their due dilligence when they were trying to bring 38 studios in, there HAS been some questionable financial machinations on the part of the company's end as well.

I think we'll find that there will be plenty of blame to go around once its settled.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Both the “left” and the “right” pretend they have the answer, but they are mere flippers on the same thalidomide baby, and the truth is that neither side has a clue."

- Jim Goad
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16.
 
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception
Apr 5, 2013, 15:43
16.
Re: Rhode Island Alleges 38 Studios Deception Apr 5, 2013, 15:43
Apr 5, 2013, 15:43
 
ldonyo wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 11:21:
Sounds more like a CYA ploy on the part of the politicians that approved the deal in the first place.

Yeah. At this point even if they don't find something illegal I think they'll just make it up so they can save face.
15.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 14:47
NKD
15.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 14:47
Apr 5, 2013, 14:47
NKD
 
If RI gave Schilling a check without so much as double checking his numbers, they deserved to lose every penny of it.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
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14.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 14:04
14.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 14:04
Apr 5, 2013, 14:04
 
Beelzebud wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 13:44:
Yeah no business leader would ever commit fraud. No politician would be naive enough to believe a sales-pitch involving new jobs in their state.


That's because no politician would ever commit fraud, eh?....;)
It is well known that I cannot err--and so, if you should happen across an error in anything I have written you can be absolutely sure that *I* did not write it!...;)
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13.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 13:50
13.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 13:50
Apr 5, 2013, 13:50
 
Beelzebud wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 13:44:
Yeah no business leader would ever commit fraud. No politician would be naive enough to believe a sales-pitch involving new jobs in their state.


If you're going to give a loan of that size you'd damn well better do some due diligence.

Yes, if Schilling knew that this money wasn't definitely not enough to get them finished yet swore up and down it was then yes, they may have an argument.
But no one can ever truly say how much development will cost.
And no entity should give an eight or nine figure loan without doing due diligence, which would reveal things like "MMOs are expensive" and "Schilling has no experience" and "his management team has no experience" and "his management team seems to be his friends and relatives rather than industry execs" and "his financing seems to be shaky."
12.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 13:44
12.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 13:44
Apr 5, 2013, 13:44
 
Yeah no business leader would ever commit fraud. No politician would be naive enough to believe a sales-pitch involving new jobs in their state.

11.
 
Re: More Big Picture Details
Apr 5, 2013, 13:23
11.
Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 5, 2013, 13:23
Apr 5, 2013, 13:23
 
avianflu wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 13:17:
On the other hand, Schilling was gambling bigtime with losses imminent, he knew it, and I am fine with him taking an expensive soaking.

Right and that be it. It's a failed business, happens all the time. RI took a risk and lost. Next.
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