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DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011

Kotaku has an article about DOOM 4 development being "off track," reporting "multiple sources" say the shooter sequel is not close to complete after five years of development that included a reboot, and describing rising tensions between developer id Software and parent Zenimax. The reboot occurred in late 2011, and is the one part of the story that has an on-the-record comment, as Pete Hines of Bethesda Softworks (also a Zenimax company) confirmed this for them. "An earlier version of Doom 4 did not exhibit the quality and excitement that Id and Bethesda intend to deliver and that Doom fans worldwide expect," Hines said in a statement for the site. "As a result, Id refocused its efforts on a new version of Doom 4 that promises to meet the very high expectations everyone has for this game and this franchise. When we’re ready to talk about the Doom 4 Id is making, we will let folks know." The article offers dire, though unconfirmed anecdotes from their sources, describing attempts at a more cinematic game derided as "Call of Doom," power struggles merging the RAGE team into the project, and organizational issues leading to an exodus of talent from the developer. Word is the game is not very close to complete, and is now planned for the next generation of consoles, and that Zenimax is putting a lot of pressure on id, with the threat of closure or becoming an engine developer if DOOM 4 fails to meet expectations, which are apparently quite lofty, as apparently id was told by Zenimax executives that the game could and should be as big as Skyrim.

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65. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 5, 2013, 07:01 Redmask
 
Wesp5 wrote on Apr 5, 2013, 06:22:
Krizzen wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 21:14:
Carmack and whoever is left of the good old id we love should just pack up and head over to Valve where their epic legacy can continue without another uber fail like Rage.

What should they do there? Valve hasn't released a game of their own for years! All they publish nowadays are commercialized mods done by the mod or university teams themselves while the rest of Valve lives off the money Steam provides them from games other companies create!

This is the dumbest post, if you knew a single thing about Valve you would understand how totally false it is. They buy companies and absorb them, they don't just strong arm their content, they become a part of them and bring often troubled projects to market. Those games are as much Valve as anything else.

'Commercialized mods' haha yeah fucking right, have you played TF2, Portal 2, Dota 2? Those aren't commercialized mods anymore.

If only id could have a single modern game with half of the quality and enjoyment of Valves 'commercialized mods', maybe they wouldn't be struggling for relevance.
 
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64. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 5, 2013, 06:22 Wesp5
 
Krizzen wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 21:14:
Carmack and whoever is left of the good old id we love should just pack up and head over to Valve where their epic legacy can continue without another uber fail like Rage.

What should they do there? Valve hasn't released a game of their own for years! All they publish nowadays are commercialized mods done by the mod or university teams themselves while the rest of Valve lives off the money Steam provides them from games other companies create!
 
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63. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 21:14 Krizzen
 
Carmack and whoever is left of the good old id we love should just pack up and head over to Valve where their epic legacy can continue without another uber fail like Rage. Too bad there's surely a myriad of IP ownership technicalities and contracts slowing the id beast down...  
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62. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 18:35 PHJF
 
Sooooo Brutal Doom is no less than 20x as fun as any straight-up shooter released in at least the past decade.  
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61. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 18:01 Redmask
 
The racing in RAGE sucked. The rest of the game was ok at best. Totally unworthy effort for idsoftware. I got it cheap so no skin off my back but they need to get with the times.  
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60. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 17:05 Wesp5
 
Verno wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 15:21:
The problem is that they were threadbare mechanics that add nothing to the game...

Well, that's your opinion. It added a lot to the game for me: I got basic quests, cool characters, great racing and the usual fine id shooting. That's more that can be said for the typical Call of Duty clone FPS nowadays.

Be a great shooter, a good RPG or at least get the hybrid stuff right a la Deus Ex.

In my opinion even the original Deus Ex wasn't that great. Much too obvious level design to support multiple ways, always a vent where you needed it. If you want a perfect FPS/RPG hybrid, look at VTM Bloodlines!
 
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59. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 16:48 MattyC
 
game could and should be as big as Skyrim.

So it is safe to say that they know nothing about Doom as a series.
 
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58. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 16:02 Creston
 
with the threat of closure or becoming an engine developer if DOOM 4 fails to meet expectations, which are apparently quite lofty, as apparently id was told by Zenimax executives that the game could and should be as big as Skyrim.

Hahahahaha. Yeah, good luck with that.

Poor poor id. Not satisfied with the millions upon millions of copies of Doom 3 they sold, they ran to the consoles in search of more money, sniffed their noses at their PC fans in the process, and now suddenly they have to create games that sell 10+ million copies to be considered a success.

In short: Bye id. But hey, at least Carmack will have his rockets!

Edit: Didn't realize this was from Kotaku, so there's a YuuuHUUUUGE "IF this is true" attached to my statement.

Creston
 
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57. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 15:21 Verno
 
Wesp5 wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 14:57:
What's the problem here? Most of the time you can't see all the world in Skyrim too, and when you do, it doesn't look great. Most of the quests in Skyrim weren't that deep either and while you can pick up everything in Skyrim, you just don't need most of the stuff. I think RAGE found a nice middle ground between linear shooters like Call of Duty and sandbox games like Skyrim.

The problem is that they were threadbare mechanics that add nothing to the game, approached as if grandpa designer was ticking off things the kids like these days instead of implementing them in a way that betters the game. Be a great shooter, a good RPG or at least get the hybrid stuff right a la Deus Ex. I thought Rage was an average but unspectacular shooter and it seems like that was the general response from the market as well.

This comment was edited on Apr 4, 2013, 15:30.
 
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56. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 15:00 AngelicPenguin
 
SirKnight wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 10:40:
Wesp5 wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 09:17:
Carmack made a big error with the megatextures stuff!


No it wasn't Carmack's fault at all (unfortunately so many do not understand how the tech works and why it's needed at all). It's how id (the artists) used it. Virtual Texturing (megatextures) is a great technology in many ways and is the future of texturing, but if not used right it will look bad.

The way id used it was to have unique texturing everywhere, instead of having repeated textures like in the past. But because of the storage limits of the consoles, this unique-ness sacrificed texture quality. One of the biggest benefits of virtual texturing is to have texture detail you could not physically have otherwise due to hardware texture size limits (which is about to change with future GPUs). id chose the other path, which resulted in blurry textures since their large textures had to stretch over a whole world to get the unique texturing they seem to have wanted.

Ya, I thought the idea seemed really neat, but I guess in practice it didn't work out. Didn't they also have something where it would auto adjust the quality so the game kept a constant 60 fps? I thought that sounded awesome, but I dunno how it turned out, since I never played Rage because the reviews were mixed. I have played all their other games and personally my favorites are Doom 2 and the original Quake, so I guess it has been a while since they did something really great for me.
 
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55. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 14:57 Wesp5
 
Verno wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 09:18:
Here is this big beautiful world visualized, whoops sorry you only see a small bit of it. Heres some "quests"! Here's something for players to pick up because they like loots!

What's the problem here? Most of the time you can't see all the world in Skyrim too, and when you do, it doesn't look great. Most of the quests in Skyrim weren't that deep either and while you can pick up everything in Skyrim, you just don't need most of the stuff. I think RAGE found a nice middle ground between linear shooters like Call of Duty and sandbox games like Skyrim.

As for the megatextures, I indeed don't understand the details. I just noticed that the version id used looked crap on my system before I updated and I also heard, that because it doesn't repeat textures, it's hell for modders to use or for other companies to license. But I could imagine an Elder Scrolls to look really magnificent with that engine, much better than Skyrim!
 
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54. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 14:47 AngelicPenguin
 
vrok wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 08:09:
netnerd85 wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 07:48:
Wesp5 wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 07:11:
In my opinion RAGE is the best game id ever did and with it's quest structure it is closer to games like Skyrim than anything id had done before. Sadly the megatextures made too many problems on low end systems while at the same time killing off possible mods, but with the right system RAGE looks absolutely beautiful and the characters are the best since Bloodlines, which includes everything RPG from Bethesda!
Could not agree more. RAGE is a masterpiece, the gunplay is second to none. The characters are so under rated.
Brilliant sarcasm. *applause*

Seriously, how much money did you guys get for writing these comments? Where do I apply for a job?

You guys always show up. What difference does it make to you if they enjoyed Rage? They are certainly just an entitled to share their opinion as you are. If someone likes a game you don't, it doesn't mean they are a corporate shill it means they <gasp> have a different opinion.
 
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53. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 13:17 avianflu
 

ID should have known better than to create an engine that wouldnt work well on current gen consoles. That was a big mistake. Bottomline: No one still to this day wants that engine.
 
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52. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 10:40 SirKnight
 
Wesp5 wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 09:17:
Carmack made a big error with the megatextures stuff!


No it wasn't Carmack's fault at all (unfortunately so many do not understand how the tech works and why it's needed at all). It's how id (the artists) used it. Virtual Texturing (megatextures) is a great technology in many ways and is the future of texturing, but if not used right it will look bad.

The way id used it was to have unique texturing everywhere, instead of having repeated textures like in the past. But because of the storage limits of the consoles, this unique-ness sacrificed texture quality. One of the biggest benefits of virtual texturing is to have texture detail you could not physically have otherwise due to hardware texture size limits (which is about to change with future GPUs). id chose the other path, which resulted in blurry textures since their large textures had to stretch over a whole world to get the unique texturing they seem to have wanted.
 
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51. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 09:18 Verno
 
I thought Rage actually continued that tradition of solid gunplay with few other relatable mechanics to a modern industry. Rage is like a project where they said "lets make a game like what everyone else is doing!" without really understanding what it is that people liked about those games. Here is this big beautiful world visualized, whoops sorry you only see a small bit of it. Heres some "quests"! Here's something for players to pick up because they like loots!

They manage to ape most aspects of other games but just implement them in a rudimentary way, as if ticking off check boxes on a feature list. The result is a strange mashup of gameplay elements where nothing goes deep enough to satisfy.

Anyways they aren't earning their keep at Zenimax and it's high time they started. If that means reorganizing themselves internally and saying goodbye to the old guard, so be it. Times have changed and id needs to as well.

This comment was edited on Apr 4, 2013, 10:12.
 
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50. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 09:17 Wesp5
 
MindStalker3 wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 08:56:
No, they promised the "game" will be as big as Skyrim.

How could that be? DOOM is all about closed quarters dark areas combat against demons! RAGE is how an id game looks out in the open with big areas and people seem to not have liked it. Which again I blame on the technical issues. Carmack made a big error with the megatextures stuff! Not only killed it off mods and licensing, it looks really bad unless your system can handle it. I upgraded mine and suddenly RAGE got a lot better :)!
 
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49. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 09:10 Wesp5
 
netnerd85 wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 07:48:
Seriously, how much money did you guys get for writing these comments?

Nothing. RAGE might not be the best game ever, but certainly better than most games id has made before, some of which were indeed little more than engine demos. Also show me characters that look more lifelike like the ones in RAGE! Granted, they haven't done much with them besides being quest giver, but nevertheless...
 
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48. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 09:10 Wesp5
 
Oops, double post.  
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47. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 09:04 InBlack
 
wtf_man wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 08:51:
InBlack wrote on Apr 4, 2013, 07:23:
Im pretty sure that we will see a Doom4 at some point, its a no brainer for Zenimax and id. However the quality of the game will definitely be very questionable to say the least.

I'd rather see a Doom Reboot.

Unlike the mods out there... a professional modern remake of Doom 1 and 2 in their latest engine (fixed,of course).

It probably wouldn't sell for $60, but it might get them pointed in the right direction to go back to their roots.

Well since Doom3 was basically a reboot of Doom (minus the awesomness of the original, plus the cheezy "boo" factor) Im guessing Doom4 will be a reboot of Doom2: Hell of Earth.
 
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46. Re: DOOM 4 Development Rebooted in 2011 Apr 4, 2013, 08:56 MindStalker3
 
siapnar wrote on Apr 3, 2013, 21:21:
Is umm, any game as big as Skyrim?

Isn't it still in the Steam top 10?

DOOM 4 will attract half the sales, if that.

No, they promised the "game" will be as big as Skyrim. That's certainly possible for them to make a huge sprawling world. They said nothing about sales..
 
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