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Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal

The Kickstarter for Torment: Tides of Numenera announces a new stretch goal for inXile entertainment's upcoming RPG, saying that Planescape Torment designer Chris Avellone will join the development team if they surpass the $3.5 million threshold, which is under $700K away with a fortnight remaining in the campaign. Word is: "At $3.5M, Chris will be joining our design team. Heíll have two primary roles. First, he will be reviewing and providing feedback on all creative elements of the game, including the story, characters, and areas. His input will be invaluable as a resource to Colin in further detailing the creative vision for the game. Second, heíll be designing and writing an eighth companion for the game, working with Colin and Monte to craft a companion ideal for both Torment and the Ninth World of Numenera."

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25. Re: Mar 22, 2013, 12:45 J
 
For a mere $1000 I'll stop posting quirky one-liners which are suffixed with a  
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24. psychomoggiebagpuss@hotmail.com Mar 22, 2013, 12:35 PsychoMoggieBagpuss
 
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 12:05:
Kristian Joensen wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:21:
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:33:
Somehow, I seriously doubt that they will be using the funds from this game fully. When they sit here and defend that they we will be using the funds just for the game. That raises a red flag to me. And 700K to add Chris, I dont see it.

Are you high? There are several stretch goal in between the current funding level and the Chris Avellone stretch goal so they aren't spending even remotely near 700k on hiring Chris Avellone + a lot of the money is being spent on other things like art, animation, code, etc to go with his writing/design work.

So even the 150k between the prior stretch goal and the Chris Avellone stretch goal isn't Chris's fee. 150k USD more in pledges implies more Amazon and kickstarter fees and more used on rewards. So the budget of the game won't be increased by that full amount.

Excuse me for not believing you, but you sound like an advocate supporter or work for them. My feelings on Kick starters are there are no checks and balances on how they are using the money.

Just because someone puts up a KS page and says I need 1 Million to make this happen, does not mean that they are using all of that money to fund the project. Itís idiotic to even assume that they are using all of the money as they say they are.

Are you sure you are not one of their stretch goals?

It comes down to trust. Either you trust whoevers doing the kickstarter, or you don't. If you don't trust them, don't give them money.
Kickstarter is a risk, as Schafer said when he started the DA adventure KS, either the game will be great, or a spectacular failure. Personally I don't mind throwing some bucks at a chance to get a game that I want to play.
 
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23. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 12:30 Jerykk
 
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 12:05:
Kristian Joensen wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:21:
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:33:
Somehow, I seriously doubt that they will be using the funds from this game fully. When they sit here and defend that they we will be using the funds just for the game. That raises a red flag to me. And 700K to add Chris, I dont see it.

Are you high? There are several stretch goal in between the current funding level and the Chris Avellone stretch goal so they aren't spending even remotely near 700k on hiring Chris Avellone + a lot of the money is being spent on other things like art, animation, code, etc to go with his writing/design work.

So even the 150k between the prior stretch goal and the Chris Avellone stretch goal isn't Chris's fee. 150k USD more in pledges implies more Amazon and kickstarter fees and more used on rewards. So the budget of the game won't be increased by that full amount.

Excuse me for not believing you, but you sound like an advocate supporter or work for them. My feelings on Kick starters are there are no checks and balances on how they are using the money.

Just because someone puts up a KS page and says I need 1 Million to make this happen, does not mean that they are using all of that money to fund the project. Itís idiotic to even assume that they are using all of the money as they say they are.

Are you sure you are not one of their stretch goals?

It's been stated throughout that the stretch goals do not necessarily reflect the actual cost needed to provide the accompanying features and/or improvements. Rather, the stretch goals are how much it will cost to make a meaningful improvement to the game. Rest assured, if they're making an RPG, they'll be using all the funding they can get. Heck, even if they weren't making an RPG, money goes quick. Games are expensive to make.
 
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22. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 12:29 netnerd85
 
Creston wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:48:
El Pit wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:27:
Next: id Software's Kickstarter for the next Quake game with only one goal: for just $1,000,000 John Carmack will be part of the development team. YAY!

Stretch goal: For 20 million, they promise not to use the shitty-ass Rage engine.

Creston
The RAGE engine is awesome, you just have NO taste.
 
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21. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 12:23 Necrophob
 
Don't forget that all these generous Kickstarter donations are taxable income to the people/companies that receive them. So just because they get $3.5 million doesn't mean that they can play with all of it.  
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20. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 12:05 Darks
 
Kristian Joensen wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:21:
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:33:
Somehow, I seriously doubt that they will be using the funds from this game fully. When they sit here and defend that they we will be using the funds just for the game. That raises a red flag to me. And 700K to add Chris, I dont see it.

Are you high? There are several stretch goal in between the current funding level and the Chris Avellone stretch goal so they aren't spending even remotely near 700k on hiring Chris Avellone + a lot of the money is being spent on other things like art, animation, code, etc to go with his writing/design work.

So even the 150k between the prior stretch goal and the Chris Avellone stretch goal isn't Chris's fee. 150k USD more in pledges implies more Amazon and kickstarter fees and more used on rewards. So the budget of the game won't be increased by that full amount.

Excuse me for not believing you, but you sound like an advocate supporter or work for them. My feelings on Kick starters are there are no checks and balances on how they are using the money.

Just because someone puts up a KS page and says I need 1 Million to make this happen, does not mean that they are using all of that money to fund the project. Itís idiotic to even assume that they are using all of the money as they say they are.

Are you sure you are not one of their stretch goals?
 
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Creator of the Neverwnter Nights Eye of the Beholder Series of Mods.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=6375
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19. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 11:48 Creston
 
El Pit wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:27:
Next: id Software's Kickstarter for the next Quake game with only one goal: for just $1,000,000 John Carmack will be part of the development team. YAY!

Stretch goal: For 20 million, they promise not to use the shitty-ass Rage engine.

Creston
 
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18. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 11:27 El Pit
 
Next: id Software's Kickstarter for the next Quake game with only one goal: for just $1,000,000 John Carmack will be part of the development team. YAY!  
Consoles? I owned two: a Pong clone and an Atari 2600. And that's it.
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17. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 11:21 Kristian Joensen
 
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:33:
Somehow, I seriously doubt that they will be using the funds from this game fully. When they sit here and defend that they we will be using the funds just for the game. That raises a red flag to me. And 700K to add Chris, I dont see it.

Are you high? There are several stretch goal in between the current funding level and the Chris Avellone stretch goal so they aren't spending even remotely near 700k on hiring Chris Avellone + a lot of the money is being spent on other things like art, animation, code, etc to go with his writing/design work.

So even the 150k between the prior stretch goal and the Chris Avellone stretch goal isn't Chris's fee. 150k USD more in pledges implies more Amazon and kickstarter fees and more used on rewards. So the budget of the game won't be increased by that full amount.
 
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16. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 11:16 Creston
 
I'm still a bit dubious on the whole George Ziets thing, and now Avellone as well? Is Avellone really going to do that much work on Torment? And is that work going to hinder his work on PE? We already paid Chris 4 million bucks to work on Eternity.

Edit: Sorta explained by Dev's post below, but hmmm. There is no overlap with Wasteland 2 since the writing/pre-production on that is done, but PE is still very much in the middle of design, so I'm still kinda curious how Chris is going to do that.

Creston
 
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15. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 11:07 nin
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:51:
End this before it gets any worse! I already upped my pledge from $75 to $130! Save me!

Seriously! I'm at $125, and trying to ignore the higher tiers...

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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14. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:51 Mr. Tact
 
End this before it gets any worse! I already upped my pledge from $75 to $130! Save me!  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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13. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:46 Dev
 
InBlack wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:42:
Well thanks for that very illuminating reply. I usually dont bother to read the fine print but then again the only serious attention Ive paid to Kickstarter was regarding Star Citizen, where Roberts basically transparently allocated nearly every single pledged dollar.
No problem.

Oddly enough, I'm MUCH more skeptical of Star Citizen, since he's got so much MMO and F2P type stuff going on there. I did the minimum pledge, and only because I got in on one of the discount tiers (a spot opened on the last day). And it sounds like he's got more in private funding going into that game that he's going to be beholden to than KS funds, and private funding is really hot for F2P stuff right now.
 
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12. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:44 Dev
 
Also this article (I can't remember where I found the link, it might have been bluesnews)
link

has some interesting KS bits. Such as games had $83 million in KS funding in 2012.

$83 mil is starting to approach the place where'd I'd expect publishers to take some sorta notice.
 
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11. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:42 InBlack
 
Dev wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:10:
InBlack wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 09:22:
nin wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 09:11:
I doubt it just goes towards that. It's about giving people an excuse to continue pledging. They had an extremely strong start but have slowed a bit (as all KS do, esp when heavily front loaded like this one).



Well they should clear that up on their KS page, or add a few more things that they will be doing with that cash (other thank hiring Chris) because from where I stand it looks like that money is going into his pocket...
They've already explained the distance between stretches, multiple times, that it will all go to improving the game.

Every dollar helps us create a deeper storyline, add more dialogues, build more areas, add more detail, design more items and creatures, add new foci, and more.
and
About Stretch Goals and Funding

Weíve noted some explicit Stretch Goals, but weíve also explained that every dollar we receive from your contributions during this campaign (including the 10% matching from $2M to $3M by @Dracogen!) will be going into the game development budget (along with reward fulfillment). I wanted to explain briefly what we mean. As more funding is available, we can make many improvements that arenít easily described as a Stretch Goal. For example, at this upcoming milestone, George Ziets will be joining the writing team. This doesnít just involve George. His writing contributions will allow us to increase depth and complexity, resulting in an even more branching and reactive storyline. More written content requires new art, more scripting support, and more quality assurance and iteration to polish the content. As the game increases in depth and complexity, new interface elements and features will be needed to properly communicate to you everything you need to know. George (and each writer) who contributes to the game creates more work (in a good way) for many who are behind the scenes.
All that pretty much applies to Chris as well.
and
We promise to you that all of the funds will be leveraged to best realize the vision we have presented. (Several in our community have expressed opinions along these lines, including GrinningReaper659 and aratuk.) We wonít be using funds from this Kickstarter to add in features that deviate from this vision. We treat the trust you have placed in us seriously, and will maintain our precise focus on creating the game we have told you about. (For example, there is no total this Kickstarter could reach that would lead us to implement multiplayer.)

Its not their fault if someone doesn't read stuff like that in the updates, or blues forums (I've quoted some of this stuff in threads here before). Also, the very update that mentions Chris, mentions that they didn't want to put him as a stretch goal until they were sure they could get him, and get him without conflicting with his other commitments (like wasteland 2 and eternity). And every bit of input he has into the design has to have additional resources devoted to it, to do the art/animation/sound for his ideas, etc.

But if you still have concerns, voice them on the comments in the kickstarter update. They often address concerns sometimes in direct replies (not always blue since there's a lot of people involved) or talk about it in the next update. While we can blither about things like this here, it won't actually do much. Talking about it there is a chance to DIRECTLY influence the game itself, and they can address things. If you have a question about it, you are unlikely to be the only one with that question and if you ask, there's probably at least 100 (or more in this project) other people who want to see the answer.

Edit: And as mentioned above by wtf_man, it also includes an additional companion. Though Chris will be doing the design and writing of it, that doesn't include the art/animation/audio etc of that companion.

Finally, if all that kinda thing and commenting/interacting directly in the kickstarter doesn't satisfy someone regarding a particular project (speaking in general terms now, not just about this one), then they probably shouldn't be backing that particular kickstarter, they should wait until its out and read reviews. Then they only are out the money if its a confirmed good final product.

Well thanks for that very illuminating reply. I usually dont bother to read the fine print but then again the only serious attention Ive paid to Kickstarter was regarding Star Citizen, where Roberts basically transparently allocated nearly every single pledged dollar.
 
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10. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:38 Dev
 
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:33:
Somehow, I seriously doubt that they will be using the funds from this game fully. When they sit here and defend that they we will be using the funds just for the game. That raises a red flag to me. And 700K to add Chris, I dont see it.
I dunno why. Games take money to make. Even a "simple" adventure game like DFA is already past $4 million in expected expenses (which is more than the KS brought in). Why is it hard to believe that less than can possibly go into a far far more complicated game?

But I will quote from what I JUST said a few replies ago
Finally, if all that kinda thing and commenting/interacting directly in the kickstarter doesn't satisfy someone regarding a particular project (speaking in general terms now, not just about this one), then they probably shouldn't be backing that particular kickstarter, they should wait until its out and read reviews. Then they only are out the money if its a confirmed good final product.
 
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9. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:37 nin
 
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:33:
Somehow, I seriously doubt that they will be using the funds from this game fully. When they sit here and defend that they we will be using the funds just for the game. That raises a red flag to me. And 700K to add Chris, I dont see it.

What?

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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8. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:33 Darks
 
Somehow, I seriously doubt that they will be using the funds from this game fully. When they sit here and defend that they we will be using the funds just for the game. That raises a red flag to me. And 700K to add Chris, I dont see it.  
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Creator of the Neverwnter Nights Eye of the Beholder Series of Mods.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=6375
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7. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:11 wtf_man
 
Who says he gets the full $165k? They've explained that as they add writers, assets also have to be created, programming time, etc.

So that $165k is NOT all for Chris. "Writing in" an 8th companion will involve many others of the dev team... and their time is not free.

EDIT: Doh! DEV beat me to it. LOL
 
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6. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 10:10 Dev
 
InBlack wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 09:22:
nin wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 09:11:
I doubt it just goes towards that. It's about giving people an excuse to continue pledging. They had an extremely strong start but have slowed a bit (as all KS do, esp when heavily front loaded like this one).



Well they should clear that up on their KS page, or add a few more things that they will be doing with that cash (other thank hiring Chris) because from where I stand it looks like that money is going into his pocket...
They've already explained the distance between stretches, multiple times, that it will all go to improving the game.

Every dollar helps us create a deeper storyline, add more dialogues, build more areas, add more detail, design more items and creatures, add new foci, and more.
and
About Stretch Goals and Funding

Weíve noted some explicit Stretch Goals, but weíve also explained that every dollar we receive from your contributions during this campaign (including the 10% matching from $2M to $3M by @Dracogen!) will be going into the game development budget (along with reward fulfillment). I wanted to explain briefly what we mean. As more funding is available, we can make many improvements that arenít easily described as a Stretch Goal. For example, at this upcoming milestone, George Ziets will be joining the writing team. This doesnít just involve George. His writing contributions will allow us to increase depth and complexity, resulting in an even more branching and reactive storyline. More written content requires new art, more scripting support, and more quality assurance and iteration to polish the content. As the game increases in depth and complexity, new interface elements and features will be needed to properly communicate to you everything you need to know. George (and each writer) who contributes to the game creates more work (in a good way) for many who are behind the scenes.
All that pretty much applies to Chris as well.
and
We promise to you that all of the funds will be leveraged to best realize the vision we have presented. (Several in our community have expressed opinions along these lines, including GrinningReaper659 and aratuk.) We wonít be using funds from this Kickstarter to add in features that deviate from this vision. We treat the trust you have placed in us seriously, and will maintain our precise focus on creating the game we have told you about. (For example, there is no total this Kickstarter could reach that would lead us to implement multiplayer.)

Its not their fault if someone doesn't read stuff like that in the updates, or blues forums (I've quoted some of this stuff in threads here before). Also, the very update that mentions Chris, mentions that they didn't want to put him as a stretch goal until they were sure they could get him, and get him without conflicting with his other commitments (like wasteland 2 and eternity). And every bit of input he has into the design has to have additional resources devoted to it, to do the art/animation/sound for his ideas, etc.

But if you still have concerns, voice them on the comments in the kickstarter update. They often address concerns sometimes in direct replies (not always blue since there's a lot of people involved) or talk about it in the next update. While we can blither about things like this here, it won't actually do much. Talking about it there is a chance to DIRECTLY influence the game itself, and they can address things. If you have a question about it, you are unlikely to be the only one with that question and if you ask, there's probably at least 100 (or more in this project) other people who want to see the answer.

Edit: And as mentioned above by wtf_man, it also includes an additional companion. Though Chris will be doing the design and writing of it, that doesn't include the art/animation/audio etc of that companion.

Finally, if all that kinda thing and commenting/interacting directly in the kickstarter doesn't satisfy someone regarding a particular project (speaking in general terms now, not just about this one), then they probably shouldn't be backing that particular kickstarter, they should wait until its out and read reviews. Then they only are out the money if its a confirmed good final product.

This comment was edited on Mar 22, 2013, 10:29.
 
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