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Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal

The Kickstarter for Torment: Tides of Numenera announces a new stretch goal for inXile entertainment's upcoming RPG, saying that Planescape Torment designer Chris Avellone will join the development team if they surpass the $3.5 million threshold, which is under $700K away with a fortnight remaining in the campaign. Word is: "At $3.5M, Chris will be joining our design team. He’ll have two primary roles. First, he will be reviewing and providing feedback on all creative elements of the game, including the story, characters, and areas. His input will be invaluable as a resource to Colin in further detailing the creative vision for the game. Second, he’ll be designing and writing an eighth companion for the game, working with Colin and Monte to craft a companion ideal for both Torment and the Ninth World of Numenera."

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45. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Apr 2, 2013, 15:17 nin
 

Yeah, I went from $125 to $145, based on the add-ons. This is getting mighty expensive...

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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44. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Apr 2, 2013, 15:16 Mr. Tact
 
Well, on the brightside, if they were north of $4m stretching towards $4.5m I might be tempted to up my already considerable $130 pledge...  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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43. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Apr 2, 2013, 15:06 nin
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 2, 2013, 14:46:
Not a lot of movement on this in the last week... Down to 3 days on this Kickstarter but the upward swing at the end hasn't started yet. On Project Eternity it started up ticking 6 days from the end. Doesn't look like they'll surpass PE.

they want 4.5m for the stronghold, and I can't see that happening, even with the final surge...
 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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42. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Apr 2, 2013, 14:46 Mr. Tact
 
Not a lot of movement on this in the last week... Down to 3 days on this Kickstarter but the upward swing at the end hasn't started yet. On Project Eternity it started up ticking 6 days from the end. Doesn't look like they'll surpass PE.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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41. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 24, 2013, 13:51 Dev
 
InBlack wrote on Mar 24, 2013, 04:58:
Like people have mentioned its about trust.
Thats EXACTLY it. Do you trust a particular KS and its creators? Do you trust them to be efficient with your money? Does it pass your personal smell test? If no, then its probably a good idea to pass. Wait for release and reviews and if its your type of game that looks like it turned out good, go for it then.

Whats funny to me though, is how trustworthy are the big companies with money matters anyway? EA blew tons of money on that star wars MMO game, and they didn't get NEARLY enough subscribers that they planned for. I bet there's significant waste in huge game projects like the next CoD. I don't trust EA or activision to make good use of my money. For that matter, I don't think valve is very good with money either lol.
 
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40. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 24, 2013, 04:58 InBlack
 
Optional Nickname! wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 17:21:
30% was overstated for effect. But 5% does not include other party fees associated with processing the pledges. And don't think Kickstarter doesn't out-source most of its 'work' to Amazon and 'the cloud'.

In total, the fixed fee percentages are not trivial, certainly not 30%. But it could very well be 30% at smaller amounts if it is a set fee plus a percentage per pledge.

My point was not to speculate on Kickstarter's exact take but to illuminate the fact that Kickstarter and Amazon are making a great deal of money with their single digit fees for relatively little 'work'. Does not Chris Avellone deserves as much for the very real work he will do, if you consider scriptwriting 'real work'?

To prevent confusion jacobybrandy, that question isn't personally directed at you. I think it was InBlack who was the OP.



Well I dunno. Im thinking that 700K is a lot of money for some game writing. Most novelists dont get paid that ammount per book, so yeah that a shit load of money for writing a side character and giving some 'input' on a story. Now as others have pointed out most of that money isnt supposed to be going to him, so thats ok then I guess. Like people have mentioned its about trust.
 
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I have a nifty blue line!
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39. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 23, 2013, 06:12 Julio
 
Dev wrote on Mar 23, 2013, 04:18:
come on, they aren't going to just blow the money on hookers

If they do, as a Kickstarter backer I expect some pictures of the hookers at least
 
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38. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 23, 2013, 04:18 Dev
 
Flatline wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 22:42:
So your 25 bucks entitles you to a complete financial breakdown of a company, plus a copy of the game?

Jesus next you're going to want to have developmental control over the project for your "investment".

If employees were getting scammed, I imagine we'd hear about it as projects finished or people quit.

And we're *still* talking about peanuts when it comes to funding game development. If someone raised 20 million and put out a game looking like Wasteland 2, yeah I'd cry shenanigans, but we're talking about a dozen or more people working for 18 months on 2-4 million bucks. There's not a lot of room for embezzlement and still turning out a decent looking product, which is what you're basically insinuating.

But I forgot, that's common sense. It's far more entertaining to imagine a 20 hour game being created on 250 grand and the rest being kept by a moustache-twirling villain.
Yeah exactly. Even if you are paying someone something cheap, like say $50k salary, the actual cost to the company is often 1.5-2x times as much after health care costs and benefits, etc. So lets say 10 people at 75k (using the lower 1.5x figure), bang you are at 3/4ths of a million for a year's work. And that doesn't include fees, taxes, or things like physical rewards fulfillment (which we've seen totally screw over projects before when they weren't budgeted properly). I saw a KS project recently where physical rewards were estimated to be taking 40% of the budget.

Now if the budgets are the scale of the $100 million of APB, or something in that class. Yeah the complainers would have a good point, TONS of waste going into something like that.

But when this is a lifelong/decades long dream, once in a lifetime opportunity to get something done that they've tried for YEARS begging publishers to help get done... come on, they aren't going to just blow the money on hookers. They'd have to be totally nuts to do that, and destroy what is likely their only chance to get this kinda team and project together. I mean imagine you've tried for years, and have been motivated to spend thousands of hours, trying to get something done. Suddenly you have a chance to get it done. Would you just randomly flush the chance down the drain? And the money, while it might be in the couple millions, is NOT worth killing a company name like Obsidian (in the case of project eternity) over just taking the money and running. Plus if they do something good, they have a decent shot at far far more in sales.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the more extreme crowdfunding complainers who are outright gleeful at the prospect of a possible KS failure of a big project have some sorta ulterior motive, like are they employed by a publisher?

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2013, 04:30.
 
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37. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 23, 2013, 01:05 Paranoid Jack
 
(twirls his mustache) Muahahahahahahaha!  
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36. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 22:42 Flatline
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 18:19:
Yeah, I'd like to know how everyone gets paid. Is it a pool with base salary then points on additional sales? Who's getting paid what? I'm starting to get really of leery of backing well known designers who are already rich(ish).

So your 25 bucks entitles you to a complete financial breakdown of a company, plus a copy of the game?

Jesus next you're going to want to have developmental control over the project for your "investment".

If employees were getting scammed, I imagine we'd hear about it as projects finished or people quit.

And we're *still* talking about peanuts when it comes to funding game development. If someone raised 20 million and put out a game looking like Wasteland 2, yeah I'd cry shenanigans, but we're talking about a dozen or more people working for 18 months on 2-4 million bucks. There's not a lot of room for embezzlement and still turning out a decent looking product, which is what you're basically insinuating.

But I forgot, that's common sense. It's far more entertaining to imagine a 20 hour game being created on 250 grand and the rest being kept by a moustache-twirling villain.
 
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35. psychomoggiebagpuss@hotmail.com Mar 22, 2013, 18:46 PsychoMoggieBagpuss
 
http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1242058835

Yeah I must admit did kind of go WTF?!?! when I checked on amazon payments how much I've given since the DA ks though........
 
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34. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 18:37 PsychoMoggieBagpuss
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 18:19:
Yeah, I'd like to know how everyone gets paid. Is it a pool with base salary then points on additional sales? Who's getting paid what? I'm starting to get really of leery of backing well known designers who are already rich(ish).

I was in the same boat as you cutter, but at the end of the day the games I like to play aren't being made anymore. The big publishers just aren't interested in innovating or niche groups.
When the designers and teams who made the games that captivated me (and almost caused me to fail my BEng back in the day!), are asking for money to make those types of games again, i'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and will back them.
I may get burnt in the process, but come on, if theres a chance that I'm going to get another Ultima 7/PS:T/Wing Commander/Populous, I'm going to be all over that like flies on shite.
 
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PMB / Shodan
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33. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 18:19 Cutter
 
Yeah, I'd like to know how everyone gets paid. Is it a pool with base salary then points on additional sales? Who's getting paid what? I'm starting to get really of leery of backing well known designers who are already rich(ish).
 
Avatar 25394
 
"Bye weeks? Bronko Nagurski didn't get no bye weeks, and now he's dead… Well, maybe they're a good thing." - Moe
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32. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 17:33 jacobvandy
 
But 5% is still the cut Kickstarter takes, and that's it. Amazon Payments (and PayPal) take their own fees, too, but I'd argue their service is even more valuable than the KS website. [url= here for details[/url], for example paying by credit card > $10 is 2.9% + $0.30. It's all taken into account when responsible project creators calculate their budget, and in no way possible could that add up to anywhere near 30% of the total. Someone mentioned taxes earlier, but that's a whole other situation...  
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31. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 17:21 Optional Nickname!
 
30% was overstated for effect. But 5% does not include other party fees associated with processing the pledges. And don't think Kickstarter doesn't out-source most of its 'work' to Amazon and 'the cloud'.

In total, the fixed fee percentages are not trivial, certainly not 30%. But it could very well be 30% at smaller amounts if it is a set fee plus a percentage per pledge.

My point was not to speculate on Kickstarter's exact take but to illuminate the fact that Kickstarter and Amazon are making a great deal of money with their single digit fees for relatively little 'work'. Does not Chris Avellone deserves as much for the very real work he will do, if you consider scriptwriting 'real work'?

To prevent confusion jacobybrandy, that question isn't personally directed at you. I think it was InBlack who was the OP.


 
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30. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 16:03 jacobvandy
 
Optional Nickname! wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 14:29:
I would be curious to know your position on Kickstarter's fee of up to say, 30%, of the entire Kickstarter total.

From where I stand, a million dollars for hosting a web page for a month or so...

Try 5% there, sparky, so it would be around $160k of the $3.33 mil total in your example. Which really, when you're considering the cost of server maintenance from the immense traffic driven to such huge projects, not to mention the fact that they're providing an outreach service, a central place for all this stuff to happen in... Is that really unreasonable? Guys like Fargo and Avellone would be the first to tell you that KS deserves a lot of credit for what they've made possible, how they've impacted their livelihood in such a positive way. That fee is a pittance compared to the terms and conditions associated with traditional fundraising.
 
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29. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 15:15 Flatline
 
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 12:05:
Kristian Joensen wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:21:
Darks wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 10:33:
Somehow, I seriously doubt that they will be using the funds from this game fully. When they sit here and defend that they we will be using the funds just for the game. That raises a red flag to me. And 700K to add Chris, I dont see it.

Are you high? There are several stretch goal in between the current funding level and the Chris Avellone stretch goal so they aren't spending even remotely near 700k on hiring Chris Avellone + a lot of the money is being spent on other things like art, animation, code, etc to go with his writing/design work.

So even the 150k between the prior stretch goal and the Chris Avellone stretch goal isn't Chris's fee. 150k USD more in pledges implies more Amazon and kickstarter fees and more used on rewards. So the budget of the game won't be increased by that full amount.

Excuse me for not believing you, but you sound like an advocate supporter or work for them. My feelings on Kick starters are there are no checks and balances on how they are using the money.

Just because someone puts up a KS page and says I need 1 Million to make this happen, does not mean that they are using all of that money to fund the project. It’s idiotic to even assume that they are using all of the money as they say they are.

Are you sure you are not one of their stretch goals?

So don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Of course, when the game is released, if it's good, you'll buy it anyway and forget all your bitching. Because gamers are generally hypocrites like that.
 
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28. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 14:29 Optional Nickname!
 
"because from where I stand it looks like that money is going into his pocket... "

That specific idiom distinctly implies disapproval. Do you really disapprove of the accomplished, talented and available Chris Avellone getting paid handsomely for his craft?

I would be curious to know your position on Kickstarter's fee of up to say, 30%, of the entire Kickstarter total.

From where I stand, a million dollars for hosting a web page for a month or so...
 
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27. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 14:00 jacobvandy
 
HYPERBOLE OVERWHELMING!  
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26. Re: Torment Kickstarter Adds Chris Avellone Goal Mar 22, 2013, 13:22 Beelzebud
 
netnerd85 wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 12:29:
Creston wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:48:
El Pit wrote on Mar 22, 2013, 11:27:
Next: id Software's Kickstarter for the next Quake game with only one goal: for just $1,000,000 John Carmack will be part of the development team. YAY!

Stretch goal: For 20 million, they promise not to use the shitty-ass Rage engine.

Creston
The RAGE engine is awesome, you just have NO taste.

I must not have any taste either. I prefer my games to not look like they were made in 1998, except for the distant cliffs, which look like they came from 2012.
 
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