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Morning Legal Briefs

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9. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 21, 2013, 06:54 xXBatmanXx
 
Sepharo wrote on Mar 21, 2013, 00:41:
Does it interface with your normal mobile software? Before you go out you download a local database of alerts? I'd imagine that's probably why this is kosher is because it's not hitting NCIC everytime.

That huge article and it doesn't mention who makes it anywhere as far I could see.

Correct. Download from a state a "hot files" to USB device then load to sofware in special veh. I will link a vendor that is popular.
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
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8. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 21, 2013, 00:41 Sepharo
 
Does it interface with your normal mobile software? Before you go out you download a local database of alerts? I'd imagine that's probably why this is kosher is because it's not hitting NCIC everytime.

That huge article and it doesn't mention who makes it anywhere as far I could see.
 
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7. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 20, 2013, 23:57 xXBatmanXx
 
Quboid wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 22:39:
I didn't know they existed, that's horrible. You get automatically scanned when driving throughout cities in the US, in case you are a criminal?

I'm surprised this exists, but I'm very surprised that people aren't furious about this (AFAIK) especially in the US of all places.

Since when was checking if a random person is a criminal acceptable behaviour in a free society? If the authorities have reason to suspect you have committed a crime then I can understand it but to just check everyone all the time is ghastly.

I really hope I'm misunderstanding this.

Not all cities have them. But the cities that do, this is the standard setup:
2 seconds on google gave me this article, I didn't read it

It is 4-8 cameras mounted on a squad that reads hundreds of license plates a second. It is driven during normal patrol and catches most license plates within 50 feet. It then runs those plates against a database that was loaded to the computer in the squad in the last 1-6 hours on recent "hot files". These can be wanted people, warrants, no license, unpaid tickets within that city, etc etc etc.

Riding with a Minneapolis police patrol car, in 1 hour we had over 100 "hits". Without going into great detail, most likely about 50% of these "hits" are valid. This is no different than me going down the street or sitting at a light and running every plate I can as fast as I can, but the computer does it for me. (In the United States, courts have ruled that officers can run plates at random and investigate further if information is found that could lead to apprehension or investigation). I can run about 1 plate every 4-5 seconds manually. Driving the special squad, it catches all plates. It will then make an audible noise when there is a "hit". This must then be looked at and decided if it is valid and correct (same is done in the manual process).

It is a great tool for doing my job more efficiently. Lots of stolen cars are found (driving through apartment lots and I can use this instead of entering every car that I don't recognize) also used in Walmart lots and hotel lots. Find lots of good stuff.

The courts have ruled over and over that outside of your home, your "expectation of privacy" is greatly diminished. Even more so, I am sure we will see cases that mention the defendant who wants to be "private" as sharing even the most intimate things on FB and Twitter and the case being thrown out.

Ultimately, we are getting better at catching bad guys, and bad guys don't like that. Our communities on the other hand, like it very much.

What would the uproar be? That we are keeping free people free and catching criminals?
 
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6. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 20, 2013, 22:39 Quboid
 
I didn't know they existed, that's horrible. You get automatically scanned when driving throughout cities in the US, in case you are a criminal?

I'm surprised this exists, but I'm very surprised that people aren't furious about this (AFAIK) especially in the US of all places.

Since when was checking if a random person is a criminal acceptable behaviour in a free society? If the authorities have reason to suspect you have committed a crime then I can understand it but to just check everyone all the time is ghastly.

I really hope I'm misunderstanding this.
 
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5. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 20, 2013, 21:09 xXBatmanXx
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 16:46:
I disagree with the process entirely, but at the very least it should be private. Too many potential downsides to making it freely available to anyone. Those readers should be banned outright. It's just another slip down the slippery slope of eroding civil liberties.
What civil liberty is it infringing on?

You would be amazed at how many wanted people are located on the move with these devices. Shit heads off the street. Period.
 
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4. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 20, 2013, 16:46 Cutter
 
I disagree with the process entirely, but at the very least it should be private. Too many potential downsides to making it freely available to anyone. Those readers should be banned outright. It's just another slip down the slippery slope of eroding civil liberties.
 
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3. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 20, 2013, 12:32 PropheT
 
SimplyMonk wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 12:01:
With the multiple ways there are to track someones movements in this day and age, I don't really see this as being a concern. Sure. This was a publicly available method but with a little more ingenuity you can still achieve the same effect if you really wanted to keep tabs on someone's movements. If anything, this may just be a way for the government to not be held liable if the data they track and make publicly available is used to facilitate a crime.

Secondly, why should a mayor, a public figure, be concerned about people tracking their movements? I'm pretty sure you could just call the Mayor's office and ask what functions they will be attending that day and achieve the same end result.

What I fear is governments making bans on companies, such as Google, making use of tracking data from their services to facilitate innovations like their self-driving car. Yeah, I can see sense in not giving the data out for free to the public, but don't ban it altogether.

I think all of that is answered by who requested the data at the end of the article. Companies like Datalytics shouldn't be able to use the local government to collect data for their company. It's not about keeping track of one individual, which you could do fairly easily anyway, it's private companies building entire neighborhood demographics and specially targeted data based on government information that was never intended for that purpose.

Basically, the government had a technological capability to track people and was giving the resulting information away to whoever asked for it. Ignoring the question of whether they should be doing it in the first place, that's still a worst case usage of that information and shouldn't have been happening at all.
 
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2. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 20, 2013, 12:01 SimplyMonk
 
With the multiple ways there are to track someones movements in this day and age, I don't really see this as being a concern. Sure. This was a publicly available method but with a little more ingenuity you can still achieve the same effect if you really wanted to keep tabs on someone's movements. If anything, this may just be a way for the government to not be held liable if the data they track and make publicly available is used to facilitate a crime.

Secondly, why should a mayor, a public figure, be concerned about people tracking their movements? I'm pretty sure you could just call the Mayor's office and ask what functions they will be attending that day and achieve the same end result.

What I fear is governments making bans on companies, such as Google, making use of tracking data from their services to facilitate innovations like their self-driving car. Yeah, I can see sense in not giving the data out for free to the public, but don't ban it altogether.
 
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1. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Mar 20, 2013, 11:40 xXBatmanXx
 
Ars forums are a little bonkers, lots of tinfoil rolls being used to make cool hats.

If anyone has questions, or wants me to address anything, let me know. I am on the front lines for this stuff and as you see more plate readers being used in more states, you will see more of this privacy stuff pop up.

I think this is a very good and common sense thing to do. There were already cases of people stalking and tracking down people. There were women with Order for Protections on people who were in fear for their safety. The data that we get to view as a law enforcement individual is private. Same as a doctor, school worker, Driver Vehicle Service workers, etc etc etc. That is not public information and can't be shared. To alleviate some of this before the law changed to the above article, some agencies went from a 3-9 months data hold to a 24 hours data dump.

I think it is important to keep that data to use in investigating crimes (not petty ones) and am glad to see this data turn to private. Don't start in the abuse bla bla bla watching the watchers garbage. Yes there are bad seeds, can't do anything about it but fire and prosecute them as we go.

It will be good to track down warrants, stolen vehicles, etc etc etc. A great tool. Glad they got their head on straight and dealt with this quickly. I guess when the mayors and legislatures were being tracked that was good enough for them to switch it! hahahaha

Now maybe we can get them on our healthcare plans and other services and we could see some change!
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
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