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18. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 16:24 jdreyer
 
Darks wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 11:52:
Most of the games pirated are by people who had no intention of ever buying a game. And yes there are some who would buy if it was not easy to pirate it. But the publishers are to busy blaming pirates for their own failures on making a game that’s worth buying. How many times have many of us been burnt by a bad game? I can’t even count how many times over the past 15 years.

You can't say "Most people who pirate games had no intention of ever buying." That's just as bad as publishers saying "Every pirated game is a lost sale." That's exactly Refenes' point.

However, as studies on price elasticity have shown, almost everyone has their price. The fact that they're spending time and bandwidth to torrent and play the game in the first place means the game has a certain value to them. The person who would never buy a game in the first place is the person who is never going to torrent one, because that's a person who doesn't care about games at all.

Which means, actually, publishers are right that piracy leads to lost sales. It might not lead to a $60 sale, but it could be a $20 or $5 sale. When the price is cheap and value is added through services like steam, sales are made. This is supported both anecdotally and empirically.

This is in no way an argument in favor of DRM as a solution to the problem. But it's important to realize that publishers aren't acting out of deluded fantasy, even though the "cure" of DRM hurts the patient as much as the "sickness" of piracy.

As for being burnt by a bad game, you have only yourself to blame. That's what demos and reviews and Blues News commenters are for. Using try-before-you-buy as a justification for torrenting is simply rationalizing illegal behavior.
 
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17. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 14:32 SectorEffector
 
Xcom is another great example of doing the franchise justice! It kills me thinking I only put like 5 or so hours into that game.

BUT.. RCT you say...

Any disagreement we have ever had doesn't matter... You still play RCT2 and I Love you


RCT 1+2 ... just wow... Nothing beats that game. It still looks amazing and I still don't know how Chris Sawyer programmed that game more or less on his own. Easily 10+ years into that franchise.

I need to add RCT to my currently playing list, I figure nobody plays it anymore...



EDIT: good god there is a sub reddit for roller coaster tycoon....


Howd you feel about RCT3?
 
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16. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 14:24 Beamer
 
SectorEffector wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 14:21:
Sadly everybody is now at the point of "do I have enough time to play this" Having 13 possibly great indie games added to the evergrowing steam list



Go fourth and enjoy Dishonored! (hopefully you didnt pay 50+ for it)

Finished Dishonored last night! It was $10 I think. Maybe $20. Well, well worth the money. I wrote my thoughts about it in the "All Forums" section, but my main surprise was how useless nearly ever power and weapon was.
Still really enjoyed it.

But my stack of unplayed games next to my TV is enormous, and don't even get me started on how few of my Steam games I've played. X-COM has sat uninstalled for weeks (SR3, Dishonored and Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 somehow got priority.)
 
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15. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 14:21 SectorEffector
 
Sadly everybody is now at the point of "do I have enough time to play this" Having 13 possibly great indie games added to the ever growing steam list after paying like 1.99 is actually becoming a problem..



Go fourth and enjoy Dishonored! (hopefully you didnt pay 50+ for it)
 
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14. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 14:15 Beamer
 
SectorEffector wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 14:11:
Beamer wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 13:42:
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 13:37:
Didn't get your money's worth out of Terreria? Really? Great game IMHO.

Hated it. Felt like there was nothing interesting to do. Hated it times a billion.


Really hated Amnesia? That's surprising, given the lower price and clear cut gameplay style that gets explained within one viewing of a gameplay vid. Not saying you're not entitled to not like it, I just remember seeing a 5 min gameplay vid and I knew what I needed to know.


Sidenote: Doom3... is a great example of why first day purchases are a kick in the bag of marbles.





RE: Doom for GMOD. so strange to watch sprites with shadows effecting them... most doom ports just sorta give soft lights to the sprites... seeing them very nicely lit in the source engine is fantastico!

It was like $5, which meant it wasn't even worth watching the gameplay video. Everyone here was drooling over it, but the awkward control scheme ruined it. That, and that I hate games like that.

"Lower price" didn't really factor in to whether a game is fun for me or not. My gaming limitation is far less "do I have enough money to buy all the games I want to play" and way more "do I have enough time to play all the games I want to play?" You can give me a free game and I'll still hate it if it takes away my time from getting to a better game.
I mean, Saints Row 3 and Dishonored sat unplayed for me until right now.
 
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13. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 14:11 SectorEffector
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 13:42:
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 13:37:
Didn't get your money's worth out of Terreria? Really? Great game IMHO.

Hated it. Felt like there was nothing interesting to do. Hated it times a billion.


Really hated Amnesia? That's surprising, given the lower price and clear cut gameplay style that gets explained within one viewing of a gameplay vid. Not saying you're not entitled to not like it, I just remember seeing a 5 min gameplay vid and I knew what I needed to know.


Sidenote: Doom3... is a great example of why first day purchases are a kick in the bag of marbles.





RE: Doom for GMOD. so strange to watch sprites with shadows effecting them... most doom ports just sorta give soft lights to the sprites... seeing them very nicely lit in the source engine is fantastico!
 
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12. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 13:51 nin
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 13:26:
Darks wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 11:52:
How many times have many of us been burnt by a bad game? I can’t even count how many times over the past 15 years.
Since the existence of numerous on-line gaming sites, not that often. I generally don't pre-order or impulse buy games. I usually wait at least a week and let the reviews of the actual release to come out. But I'm probably more cautious than most. *shrug*


It's also worth pointing out that losing $5-$10 on an indie game is a hell of a lot less painful that losing $60 on a AAA title.

I could never get past the controls on Binding of Isaac, and the difficulty ramp in Meatboy made me want to throw the controller at the wall. But for $5? I'll still check out what they do next. Contrast that to something like A:CM - I wouldn't touch another gearbox game had I bought that one. Hell, even as a satisfied BL2 customer, I'm extremely leery of them now.

 
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11. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 13:47 Mr. Tact
 
Huh. Oh well, different strokes for different folks I guess.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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10. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 13:42 Beamer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 13:37:
Didn't get your money's worth out of Terreria? Really? Great game IMHO.

Hated it. Felt like there was nothing interesting to do. Hated it times a billion.

 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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9. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 13:37 Mr. Tact
 
Didn't get your money's worth out of Terreria? Really? Great game IMHO.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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8. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 13:32 Beamer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 13:26:
Darks wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 11:52:
How many times have many of us been burnt by a bad game? I can’t even count how many times over the past 15 years.
Since the existence of numerous on-line gaming sites, not that often. I generally don't pre-order or impulse buy games. I usually wait at least a week and let the reviews of the actual release to come out. But I'm probably more cautious than most. *shrug*

Yup. I can't remember the last time I felt burnt by a bad game. Actually, the few I can come up with off the top of my head are all impulse purchases on Steam. I didn't get my money out of Amnesia, Terreria or that dungeon crawling game everyone went nuts over.

I also bought all 3 knowing I may hate them, but, hey, $5-$10 for something many people adore.

The last major AAA game I bought and felt burnt by was probably Doom 3. Seriously, with how many reviews are out there and how reliable word of mouth is on a site like this I feel like I'd actually have to try hard to spend $60 on something I hated.
 
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7. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 13:26 Mr. Tact
 
Darks wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 11:52:
How many times have many of us been burnt by a bad game? I can’t even count how many times over the past 15 years.
Since the existence of numerous on-line gaming sites, not that often. I generally don't pre-order or impulse buy games. I usually wait at least a week and let the reviews of the actual release to come out. But I'm probably more cautious than most. *shrug*
 
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6. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 11:52 Darks
 
ldonyo wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 10:46:
nin wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 08:58:
Team Meat: DRM worse for devs than piracy…

Beautiful.

He went on to say that consumers were much more likely to buy from distributors they trust rather than ones they have been frustrated or slighted by before, with consumer confidence playing a huge role in how they spend money.

Holy shit, someone gets it.

Now, if only more publishers would get it...

Most of them wont, they are too busy blaming piracy rather than trying to understand why it happens. As this guy stated, how do you determine what would be a sale verses those who pirated a game. I have always believed that.

Most of the games pirated are by people who had no intention of ever buying a game. And yes there are some who would buy if it was not easy to pirate it. But the publishers are to busy blaming pirates for their own failures on making a game that’s worth buying. How many times have many of us been burnt by a bad game? I can’t even count how many times over the past 15 years.
 
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5. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 10:46 ldonyo
 
nin wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 08:58:
Team Meat: DRM worse for devs than piracy…

Beautiful.

He went on to say that consumers were much more likely to buy from distributors they trust rather than ones they have been frustrated or slighted by before, with consumer confidence playing a huge role in how they spend money.

Holy shit, someone gets it.

Now, if only more publishers would get it...
 
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4. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 10:04 wtf_man
 
Verno wrote on Mar 20, 2013, 09:29:
Good luck explaining that to the dead weight biz dev types dragging down the industry

Ayup.
 
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3. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 09:53 Beamer
 
We pretty much all agree SimCity probably would have sold 2x if not 3x, right?

I mean, sure, the Sim mechanics may suck, but week 1 no one would have realized that.
 
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2. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 09:29 Verno
 
Good luck explaining that to the dead weight biz dev types dragging down the industry  
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1. Re: etc. Mar 20, 2013, 08:58 nin
 
Team Meat: DRM worse for devs than piracy…

Beautiful.

He went on to say that consumers were much more likely to buy from distributors they trust rather than ones they have been frustrated or slighted by before, with consumer confidence playing a huge role in how they spend money.

Holy shit, someone gets it.

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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