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Evening Consolidation

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25. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 11:25 Pubknight
 
Creston wrote on Mar 12, 2013, 10:53:
But Avalanche doesn't program games for "most" PCs. They mostly program games for the top-end PCs (that little 2D top-down car-shooter game not considered.) Just Cause and Just Cause 2 needed some pretty beefy rigs to run well. Just Cause 3, rumored to be in development, will undoubtedly need a pretty beefy rig to run well.

He's not in charge of Popcap. He's in charge of a studio that makes high-end games which require plenty of power to do them justice. So why make such a stupid statement?

Creston

Fair enough comment.
He probably could have qualified the statement better.
For example, if he had said something like "the PS4 will out-power most PCs at a comparable price point for years to come", that likely wouldn't have got as strong a reaction. (I'm assuming of course the PS4 comes out somewhere in the $400-$500 range initially and will go down a bit over time)

 
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24. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 11:02 Beamer
 
yuastnav wrote on Mar 12, 2013, 10:54:
Creston wrote on Mar 12, 2013, 10:50:
Jerykk wrote on Mar 12, 2013, 01:38:
Beamer wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:29:
Creston wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:07:
Ray Marden wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:44:
They have a point, though, as much as I don't like admitting it. Today, my PC is vastly more powerful than the hardware in the PS4. And yet, come launch time, all of my games will step up to PS4/Xbox 720 image quality and I suspect my PC will struggle to play games anything close to 60 FPS at 1080P.

The "next-gen" consoles won't play 1080p at 60fps either,

People keep saying this.
I don't think they understand how meaningless it is.

Won't play what at 1080p and 60fps? Anything? The best games? Some games? All games?

What? Why even bother having this conversation? People keep talking about how the consoles will or will not run at that, and then claiming their PCs can. If we're not talking about something specific than it's meaningless. Again, I can easily write a piece of software right now that the PS3 can run at 1080p and 60fps. I can also write a piece of software, hell even with the same exact output, that it can't.

I think he meant that the vast majority of games won't run at 60 FPS, much like with this generation. The next Killzone has already been confirmed to be 1080p30 and I expect that to be the same for the rest of the games.

Beamer likes to be deliberately dense and ignore everything but the except letter of what someone said for the sake of seeming smarter.
[...]

I wouldn't say that. Some people are just pedantic like that, I know that very well from personal experience.
The problem is that sometimes I do that deliberately and other times I don't even know I'm doing that and people get mad at me. :/
That's why it's always good to think carefully about what you are going to write.

Fact: The PS4 will run plenty of games at 1080p 60fps.

No one can dispute this.
It will also run plenty games at less.

I am always baffled at how goddamn controversial that is. For fuck's sake, your PC isn't running Crysis 3 at 1080p 60fps. Does that mean your PC is a piece of shit and we should rag on it in every conversation?
There's a lot of shittiness to pick on with the next-gen consoles, but people keep coming back to "it can't do 1080p at 60fps" as if that's a meaningful argument.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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23. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 10:54 yuastnav
 
Creston wrote on Mar 12, 2013, 10:50:
Jerykk wrote on Mar 12, 2013, 01:38:
Beamer wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:29:
Creston wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:07:
Ray Marden wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:44:
They have a point, though, as much as I don't like admitting it. Today, my PC is vastly more powerful than the hardware in the PS4. And yet, come launch time, all of my games will step up to PS4/Xbox 720 image quality and I suspect my PC will struggle to play games anything close to 60 FPS at 1080P.

The "next-gen" consoles won't play 1080p at 60fps either,

People keep saying this.
I don't think they understand how meaningless it is.

Won't play what at 1080p and 60fps? Anything? The best games? Some games? All games?

What? Why even bother having this conversation? People keep talking about how the consoles will or will not run at that, and then claiming their PCs can. If we're not talking about something specific than it's meaningless. Again, I can easily write a piece of software right now that the PS3 can run at 1080p and 60fps. I can also write a piece of software, hell even with the same exact output, that it can't.

I think he meant that the vast majority of games won't run at 60 FPS, much like with this generation. The next Killzone has already been confirmed to be 1080p30 and I expect that to be the same for the rest of the games.

Beamer likes to be deliberately dense and ignore everything but the except letter of what someone said for the sake of seeming smarter.
[...]

I wouldn't say that. Some people are just pedantic like that, I know that very well from personal experience.
The problem is that sometimes I do that deliberately and other times I don't even know I'm doing that and people get mad at me. :/
That's why it's always good to think carefully about what you are going to write.
 
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22. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 10:53 Creston
 
Pubknight wrote on Mar 12, 2013, 09:15:
I didn't have a problem with the comment.
He did say "most" PCs, not "all" PCs. I don't think an avid PC gamers gaming rig would fall under the description of 'most' PCs.

But Avalanche doesn't program games for "most" PCs. They mostly program games for the top-end PCs (that little 2D top-down car-shooter game not considered.) Just Cause and Just Cause 2 needed some pretty beefy rigs to run well. Just Cause 3, rumored to be in development, will undoubtedly need a pretty beefy rig to run well.

He's not in charge of Popcap. He's in charge of a studio that makes high-end games which require plenty of power to do them justice. So why make such a stupid statement?

Creston
 
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21. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 10:50 Creston
 
Jerykk wrote on Mar 12, 2013, 01:38:
Beamer wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:29:
Creston wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:07:
Ray Marden wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:44:
They have a point, though, as much as I don't like admitting it. Today, my PC is vastly more powerful than the hardware in the PS4. And yet, come launch time, all of my games will step up to PS4/Xbox 720 image quality and I suspect my PC will struggle to play games anything close to 60 FPS at 1080P.

The "next-gen" consoles won't play 1080p at 60fps either,

People keep saying this.
I don't think they understand how meaningless it is.

Won't play what at 1080p and 60fps? Anything? The best games? Some games? All games?

What? Why even bother having this conversation? People keep talking about how the consoles will or will not run at that, and then claiming their PCs can. If we're not talking about something specific than it's meaningless. Again, I can easily write a piece of software right now that the PS3 can run at 1080p and 60fps. I can also write a piece of software, hell even with the same exact output, that it can't.

I think he meant that the vast majority of games won't run at 60 FPS, much like with this generation. The next Killzone has already been confirmed to be 1080p30 and I expect that to be the same for the rest of the games.

Beamer likes to be deliberately dense and ignore everything but the exact letter of what someone said for the sake of seeming smarter.

Yes, Beamer, obviously I meant that no software whatsoever would run at 1080p/60FPS. Here, let me put it in caps for you: TEH PS4 WILL NOT RUN TETRIS AT 1080p/60FPS!!! ALL HAIL BEAMER TEH SMART ONE!

Better now?

Creston
 
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20. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 09:22 avianflu
 
Console devs almost uniformly dont care about FPS. I am willing to bet that wont change in the next gen.

The historical exception were Naughty Dog and Insomniac, who regularly released PS2 games at full 60fps (J and Dexter and R and Clank franchises). That engine was very impressive for its time.
 
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19. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 09:15 Pubknight
 
I didn't have a problem with the comment.
He did say "most" PCs, not "all" PCs. I don't think an avid PC gamers gaming rig would fall under the description of 'most' PCs.
 
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18. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 08:26 Verno
 
Maybe he meant previous years?  
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17. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 06:00 Ozmodan
 
Right the PS4 will outpower PC's when it is barely equal to my 3 year old gaming PC, lol. You really have to love exaggeration.  
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16. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 05:59 NogSoth
 
But since the PS4 is a x64 CPU it means that low level optimizations on a level that seldom normally is considered viable for the PC platform is suddenly "just portable", for example Assembly code for utilizing SSE4 and AVX to a higher degree than now. Sadly it won't have AVX2. About the Windows overhead I doubt it is the OS itself that is taking much power (like disk I/O and kernel), instead it is the possibility of accessing the GPU directly that might give the PS4 an edge here (assuming console and compared PC had comparable hardware power). At least with this gen the PC will share the rewards of heavy CPU-side optimizing which is quite interesting and different from previous gen. In short, specific CPU optimizations done for PS4 and next XBOX will probably make the PC version even faster since the quality of the game ports should raise quite alot. The use of DDR5 is interesting but as far as I know that memory type has quite high latency and the GPU will also steal lots of memory bandwidth, meaning the CPU would need lots of cache to work efficiently in this configuration. I guess we'll see later this year :).

This comment was edited on Mar 12, 2013, 06:17.
 
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15. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 01:38 Jerykk
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:29:
Creston wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:07:
Ray Marden wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:44:
They have a point, though, as much as I don't like admitting it. Today, my PC is vastly more powerful than the hardware in the PS4. And yet, come launch time, all of my games will step up to PS4/Xbox 720 image quality and I suspect my PC will struggle to play games anything close to 60 FPS at 1080P.

The "next-gen" consoles won't play 1080p at 60fps either,

People keep saying this.
I don't think they understand how meaningless it is.

Won't play what at 1080p and 60fps? Anything? The best games? Some games? All games?

What? Why even bother having this conversation? People keep talking about how the consoles will or will not run at that, and then claiming their PCs can. If we're not talking about something specific than it's meaningless. Again, I can easily write a piece of software right now that the PS3 can run at 1080p and 60fps. I can also write a piece of software, hell even with the same exact output, that it can't.

I think he meant that the vast majority of games won't run at 60 FPS, much like with this generation. The next Killzone has already been confirmed to be 1080p30 and I expect that to be the same for the rest of the games.
 
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14. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 00:25 Asmo
 
Ray Marden wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:44:
They have a point, though, as much as I don't like admitting it. Today, my PC is vastly more powerful than the hardware in the PS4. And yet, come launch time, all of my games will step up to PS4/Xbox 720 image quality and I suspect my PC will struggle to play games anything close to 60 FPS at 1080P.

Umm, I play most games at high quality on a single gtx680 @ 6080x1200 surround... Given the current price of RAM, 8 gig is just nothing to write home about anymore.

And given the plethora of games that are console ports that, not long after release, get a HD texture pack treatment by the company or (more often) the community, I think current games are actually being held back compared to what even a modest modern gaming machine can do @ 1920x1200...

Irt to the article itself, it's almost not worth commenting on. If it were a forum post I'd say "obvious troll is obvious"...
 
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13. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 12, 2013, 00:20 killer_roach
 
If there is any way of the PS4 eclipsing modern PCs at present, much less in years to come, it's either from a) a redefinition of what "most PCs" means (which most here seem to be focusing on), or b) the possibility that there are considerably fewer obstacles to achieving maximum performance out of the hardware in the PS4 than there are under Windows.

Considering the amount that I've heard PS4 development utilizes GPU compute and its surprisingly generous system-wide memory bandwidth, it might be a little from Column A, a little from Column B.
 
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12. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 11, 2013, 23:38 wtf_man
 
Ray Marden wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:44:
They have a point, though, as much as I don't like admitting it. Today, my PC is vastly more powerful than the hardware in the PS4. And yet, come launch time, all of my games will step up to PS4/Xbox 720 image quality and I suspect my PC will struggle to play games anything close to 60 FPS at 1080P.


But you are talking about a shitty port. Ports that aren't so shitty would have the PC Blow away those consoles with today's specs.
 
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11. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 11, 2013, 23:29 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 23:07:
Ray Marden wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:44:
They have a point, though, as much as I don't like admitting it. Today, my PC is vastly more powerful than the hardware in the PS4. And yet, come launch time, all of my games will step up to PS4/Xbox 720 image quality and I suspect my PC will struggle to play games anything close to 60 FPS at 1080P.

The "next-gen" consoles won't play 1080p at 60fps either,

People keep saying this.
I don't think they understand how meaningless it is.

Won't play what at 1080p and 60fps? Anything? The best games? Some games? All games?

What? Why even bother having this conversation? People keep talking about how the consoles will or will not run at that, and then claiming their PCs can. If we're not talking about something specific than it's meaningless. Again, I can easily write a piece of software right now that the PS3 can run at 1080p and 60fps. I can also write a piece of software, hell even with the same exact output, that it can't.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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10. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 11, 2013, 23:26 Cutter
 
Yeah, for the i-machine $300 all-in-one PCs that grandma and grandpa funk use to email their grandson Billy, the PS4 will kick its ass six ways to Sunday. For everything else, not so much. Shit, it'll be out of date the day after it launches.

 
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"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
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9. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 11, 2013, 23:11 jdreyer
 
ViRGE wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:56:
dj LiTh wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:35:
Funny, as my upgrade from 2 years ago already will beat it by their current specs.
Sure, if you have a discrete video card. But the vast majority of computers don't have that, and rely solely on the iGPU. Unfortunately it will be years before AMD and Intel's iGPUs catch up to the PS4's GPU.
This was my thought. While technically true for the general public, it won't be true for the demographic that the ps4 wants to appeal to: the core gamer. Thus this guy comes off sounding like an idiot.
 
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8. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 11, 2013, 23:07 Creston
 
Ray Marden wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:44:
They have a point, though, as much as I don't like admitting it. Today, my PC is vastly more powerful than the hardware in the PS4. And yet, come launch time, all of my games will step up to PS4/Xbox 720 image quality and I suspect my PC will struggle to play games anything close to 60 FPS at 1080P.

The "next-gen" consoles won't play 1080p at 60fps either, plus pretty much every single game I have now EASILY plays 60fps at 1080p. I think the only one that didn't was AC3.

Creston
 
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7. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 11, 2013, 23:06 Creston
 
Come on Avalanche Studios dude, don't be such a fucking douchenozzle. My mid-range PC currently already kicks seven shades of shit out of the PS4.

You guys make great games, don't turn into a fucking Console Parrot Tool now.

Creston
 
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6. Re: Evening Consolidation Mar 11, 2013, 20:56 ViRGE
 
dj LiTh wrote on Mar 11, 2013, 20:35:
Funny, as my upgrade from 2 years ago already will beat it by their current specs.
Sure, if you have a discrete video card. But the vast majority of computers don't have that, and rely solely on the iGPU. Unfortunately it will be years before AMD and Intel's iGPUs catch up to the PS4's GPU.
 
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