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Evening Consolidation

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23 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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23. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 18:55 Creston
 
Verno wrote on Feb 26, 2013, 14:15:
Creston wrote on Feb 26, 2013, 13:08:
Yeah, that's what the game industry was bleating in 2008, but actually nothing is recession-proof.

Dude if fucking porn isn't recession proof then there is no way that videogames are.

Prosecution rests, Your Honor.

Creston

 
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22. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 14:15 Verno
 
Creston wrote on Feb 26, 2013, 13:08:
Yeah, that's what the game industry was bleating in 2008, but actually nothing is recession-proof.

Haha yeah exactly. Dude if fucking porn isn't recession proof then there is no way that videogames are. The Vita and Wii U are floundering right now even. Previously the PSP still managed to move a lot of hardware despite a really inconsistent library, right now they can't sell the Vita to save their life.

I think the PS4 is showing all the right signs that Sony has learned its lessons though.
 
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21. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 13:09 swedishfriend
 
Pricing: We will see fewer $60 titles and more at 30-50. COD and the like will keep getting an additional $60 in DLC for many of its customers. I don't think they can or should go for higher initial cost outside of special editions.

Sony PS4 Event: I thought it was one of the best ever. Mark Cerny has been in charge of the platform for 5 years already. This means the special stuff they were talking about probably already works if not yet on the final hardware. Lots of actual in-engine game footage 9 months out from release. More solid and interesting stuff rather than flash and fantasy. Seems to be lots of people in the game and tech industry who say something similar. So maybe a great announcement for those who care and bland for the larger audience?
 
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20. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 13:08 Creston
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Feb 26, 2013, 00:20:
Cutter wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 22:36:
The economy is likely to get worse so counting on increased sales, particularly at increased prices is pretty laughable right now.

All throughout time, entertainment is the 1 thing that stays constant no matter the economy. The idea is people need to have fun no matter what. They need that escape.

Yeah, that's what the game industry was bleating in 2008, but actually nothing is recession-proof.


I'm sure the publishers will start charging 70 bucks for new "AAA" titles, and I'm sure the large masses will just gobble it all up, even if the games become 3 hours long. (after all, most of them already whine that they "don't have the time to finish games!", since apparently taking an extra week to finish something is utterly impossible)

I've paid 60 bucks for a few games that I knew would easily last me long enough to make it worth it: GTA, Skyrim, ME3. If the next Elder Scrolls game costs 70 bucks, I'd still buy it, but the list of games for which 70 bucks is an acceptable price range is REALLY fucking short.

I'll happily wait a few months for all the others to go on sale.

Creston
 
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19. Re: More Big Picture Details Feb 26, 2013, 10:04 HorrorScope
 
Let them charge what they must, there will be plenty of cheaper/on-sale alternatives, I'm sure.  
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18. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 07:28 Beamer
 
Dev wrote on Feb 26, 2013, 04:01:
killer_roach wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 20:57:
The problem for publishers right now is in terms of pricing their product at retail. Online, they can pretty much name their price and change it at will. Brick and mortar retailers will likely try to get their own pound of flesh out of such short-term sales, asking for things like refunding the difference on outstanding inventory or a window of exclusivity on a sale, things that you don't see as issues online presently. As a result, a publisher is likely forced to stick with frequent price drops throughout a game's life cycle, using time as a mechanism of price discrimination, but will have the benefit of being able to make such changes on a somewhat random basis such that consumers don't get caught in a habit of "waiting out the next sale".
Yes, but thats not a problem they can't control. Look at apple and how much it price controls. They are crazy strict about it. Which is why you almost never see apple stuff go on sale. Retailers make almost nothing on their products, and apple has strict rules on the minimum price they can advertise at. They aren't the only ones, those things at amazon that say you have to add to cart to see the price? Those are signs that they are being coerced in pricing, thats how they are getting around the "you can't advertise our product at less than this price."
And I seem to recall a recent SCOTUS decision saying that kinda thing was ok.

Someone like activision probably has the muscle to start trying that kinda crap with CoD and gamestop.

Apple has plenty of sales channels, most notably their own store, and will happily tell anyone that doesn't want to sell their goods to go fuck themselves. Those people then come back because they're losing serious foot traffic. Those retailers also traditionally did not carry Apple products - they came to Apple around 2002ish and asked to carry Apple products now that iPods were all the rage. Apple said "sure, you can, but here are the rules."

No game publisher can do that. If they tried to play hard with Best Buy then Best Buy would tell them to fuck off and just stop carrying their games until they came back. Same with GameStop - if EA angers GameStop then GameStop just stops buying new EA games. Who loses out more there? At best it's equal.

Apple has enormous power over retailers. Publishers do not.
 
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17. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 04:51 mag
 
SectorEffector wrote on Feb 26, 2013, 01:59:
Trevellian wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 21:31:
Beamer wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 20:39:
I've speculated on pricing here a ton, and I'm 100% certain the publishers are investigating it.

But not just high. Don't get me wrong, Call of Duty will always come in high. $59.99? Sure. $69.99? Why not.

Other games, though? They know damn well they can't sustain that. And they know damn well that there's a sweet spot. There are some issues:
1) Games will always sell a ton their first week, even if the price is high. It's hard to walk away from that
2) Games will always sell a ton when prices drop. Does a game on Steam sell better when it's released at $4.99 or when it's released at $9.99 then cut to $4.99 for two weeks every two months?

I'm guessing that last part is the big problem. Games hit at $59.99. They then go on sale from time to time. They then get price drops. They go on sale a few more times. Then prices drop again.

If the massive failure of JC Penny proves anything, it's that most people are motivated not by everyday low prices but by getting a bargain, especially a time-sensitive bargain that's act-now or lose.

Steam probably generates 30% of its annual revenue during the Christmas sale. Maybe more. Starting with a lower priced product instead of a higher one you regularly and quickly reduce probably wouldn't work as well.

I have to say 49.99 is the sweet spot. I will admit, even though it's only a 10 dollar difference, if a game I want comes out at 50 bucks instead of 60, I won't even bat an eye when it comes to purchasing it.

I used to buy far more games during the Xbox/PS2 generation because they were 50 dollars.

correct me if I'm wrong but I remember genesis games and TurboDuo games being $60

http://www.1up.com/news/90s-game-price-comparison-charticle

Carts were expensive. N64 games went up to around $70. I think SNES games went up to $60ish, too. PC games always seemed a ton cheaper than the console games. Then it was cheap to press a CD, so PS1 games were cheaper, and prices stayed down through the PS2/xbox gen.

New NES games were like $100 in today's money.
 
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16. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 04:01 Dev
 
killer_roach wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 20:57:
The problem for publishers right now is in terms of pricing their product at retail. Online, they can pretty much name their price and change it at will. Brick and mortar retailers will likely try to get their own pound of flesh out of such short-term sales, asking for things like refunding the difference on outstanding inventory or a window of exclusivity on a sale, things that you don't see as issues online presently. As a result, a publisher is likely forced to stick with frequent price drops throughout a game's life cycle, using time as a mechanism of price discrimination, but will have the benefit of being able to make such changes on a somewhat random basis such that consumers don't get caught in a habit of "waiting out the next sale".
Yes, but thats not a problem they can't control. Look at apple and how much it price controls. They are crazy strict about it. Which is why you almost never see apple stuff go on sale. Retailers make almost nothing on their products, and apple has strict rules on the minimum price they can advertise at. They aren't the only ones, those things at amazon that say you have to add to cart to see the price? Those are signs that they are being coerced in pricing, thats how they are getting around the "you can't advertise our product at less than this price."
And I seem to recall a recent SCOTUS decision saying that kinda thing was ok.

Someone like activision probably has the muscle to start trying that kinda crap with CoD and gamestop.
 
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15. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 01:59 SectorEffector
 
Trevellian wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 21:31:
Beamer wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 20:39:
I've speculated on pricing here a ton, and I'm 100% certain the publishers are investigating it.

But not just high. Don't get me wrong, Call of Duty will always come in high. $59.99? Sure. $69.99? Why not.

Other games, though? They know damn well they can't sustain that. And they know damn well that there's a sweet spot. There are some issues:
1) Games will always sell a ton their first week, even if the price is high. It's hard to walk away from that
2) Games will always sell a ton when prices drop. Does a game on Steam sell better when it's released at $4.99 or when it's released at $9.99 then cut to $4.99 for two weeks every two months?

I'm guessing that last part is the big problem. Games hit at $59.99. They then go on sale from time to time. They then get price drops. They go on sale a few more times. Then prices drop again.

If the massive failure of JC Penny proves anything, it's that most people are motivated not by everyday low prices but by getting a bargain, especially a time-sensitive bargain that's act-now or lose.

Steam probably generates 30% of its annual revenue during the Christmas sale. Maybe more. Starting with a lower priced product instead of a higher one you regularly and quickly reduce probably wouldn't work as well.

I have to say 49.99 is the sweet spot. I will admit, even though it's only a 10 dollar difference, if a game I want comes out at 50 bucks instead of 60, I won't even bat an eye when it comes to purchasing it.

I used to buy far more games during the Xbox/PS2 generation because they were 50 dollars.

correct me if I'm wrong but I remember genesis games and TurboDuo games being $60
 
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14. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 01:28 Optional Nickname!
 
The cost of video games increases proportionately as to the budget for telling people that the cost of video games is increasing.  
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13. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 00:39 Cutter
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Feb 26, 2013, 00:20:
Cutter wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 22:36:
The economy is likely to get worse so counting on increased sales, particularly at increased prices is pretty laughable right now.

All throughout time, entertainment is the 1 thing that stays constant no matter the economy. The idea is people need to have fun no matter what. They need that escape.

That's not entirely accurate. People will always need to blow off steam, it's true, but when, where, and how much they spend on blowing off said steam is up for debate. There's a lot of talk that the instability and uncertainty surrounding the economy is only going to increase and when that happens people go to ground and start hoarding and really reigning in non-essential spending. Not like everything is going to come to a dead stop, but it's doubtful it's going to increase.

 
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12. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 00:32 PropheT
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Feb 26, 2013, 00:20:
Cutter wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 22:36:
The economy is likely to get worse so counting on increased sales, particularly at increased prices is pretty laughable right now.

All throughout time, entertainment is the 1 thing that stays constant no matter the economy. The idea is people need to have fun no matter what. They need that escape.

That's true to a point, but that doesn't mean video game sales are immune. Most indicators from the last couple of years would say it's not. A price increase is just as likely to send people to more easily attainable entertainment methods as it is to get people to spend the extra cash on games, anyway. People will always spend money on entertainment, but they won't dump money into luxury entertainment like video games when they're on a tight budget.

Trevellian wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 21:31:
I used to buy far more games during the Xbox/PS2 generation because they were 50 dollars.

I don't know that I bought far more games, personally, but I took a chance on a lot more games that I wasn't sure about. At $69, if they hit that mark, the odds of me buying anything that's not a sure bet while it's at or near that price are virtually zero.
 
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11. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 26, 2013, 00:20 xXBatmanXx
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 22:36:
The economy is likely to get worse so counting on increased sales, particularly at increased prices is pretty laughable right now.

All throughout time, entertainment is the 1 thing that stays constant no matter the economy. The idea is people need to have fun no matter what. They need that escape.
 
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10. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 25, 2013, 23:58 ViRGE
 
I don't know. I think we could see $70 for top-tier titles. The increase in hardware capabilities will drive up the cost of game development, and in the meantime the small user base of a recently launched console means there are fewer units over which to spread costs. Not that I want to pay $70, but it's not unrealistic, or even all that unreasonable.  
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9. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 25, 2013, 22:46 Beamer
 
Tom wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 21:33:
Beamer wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 20:39:
If the massive failure of JC Penny proves anything, it's that most people are motivated not by everyday low prices but by getting a bargain, especially a time-sensitive bargain that's act-now or lose.

Hmm this must be why there's never anyone at Walmart eh.

I dunno, I've never been in one, but I do know that they still run sales. And I do know that games at Walmart are the same as everywhere else.

Sales bring in people. Period. Everyone loves a deal. If you walk into a store and see something is $39.99 you may shrug. If you see it's $49.99 but $39.99 this week only you're more likely to buy it.

Need proof? Ask this board how many games they buy at Steam Sales but don't actually play until after the regular price has dropped that low, or even lower.

My guess is just that they will get more aggressive with their sales and price reductions rather than releasing at lower prices. And I'd guess most people would rather pay $69.99 for a few titles, like Call of Duty, rather than have some extra asinine monetization scheme.

Lastly, the big price crunch is coming from apps. People get tons of gaming value on their mobile for free to $0.99. It's hard to get them to jump up, even if the quality is there. This is why I think there will be more of a race down to the $19.99 mark and titles will hit it quicker. But they'll still be priced higher, just on sale. Constantly, perpetual sales.

Seriously, saying Steam does 30% of its business during the Christmas sale is a pretty safe estimate.
 
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8. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 25, 2013, 22:36 Cutter
 
The economy is likely to get worse so counting on increased sales, particularly at increased prices is pretty laughable right now.
 
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7. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 25, 2013, 22:19 jdreyer
 
We're already seeing a lot of price variation for new AAA titles:
Resident Evil 6 - $39.99
Far Cry 3 - $49.99
Tomb Raider - $49.99
Bioshock: Infinite - $59.99
Company of Heroes 2 - $59.99

I agree that probably only CoD can push it up to $70. Not even BF4 will try that price without CoD going there first. There has been some attempts at charging higher prices a la Deluxe Editions, etc. I'm sure companies are using that data to figure out the minimum price they can charge.

 
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6. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 25, 2013, 21:33 Tom
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 20:39:
If the massive failure of JC Penny proves anything, it's that most people are motivated not by everyday low prices but by getting a bargain, especially a time-sensitive bargain that's act-now or lose.

Hmm this must be why there's never anyone at Walmart eh.
 
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5. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 25, 2013, 21:31 Trevellian
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 20:39:
I've speculated on pricing here a ton, and I'm 100% certain the publishers are investigating it.

But not just high. Don't get me wrong, Call of Duty will always come in high. $59.99? Sure. $69.99? Why not.

Other games, though? They know damn well they can't sustain that. And they know damn well that there's a sweet spot. There are some issues:
1) Games will always sell a ton their first week, even if the price is high. It's hard to walk away from that
2) Games will always sell a ton when prices drop. Does a game on Steam sell better when it's released at $4.99 or when it's released at $9.99 then cut to $4.99 for two weeks every two months?

I'm guessing that last part is the big problem. Games hit at $59.99. They then go on sale from time to time. They then get price drops. They go on sale a few more times. Then prices drop again.

If the massive failure of JC Penny proves anything, it's that most people are motivated not by everyday low prices but by getting a bargain, especially a time-sensitive bargain that's act-now or lose.

Steam probably generates 30% of its annual revenue during the Christmas sale. Maybe more. Starting with a lower priced product instead of a higher one you regularly and quickly reduce probably wouldn't work as well.

I have to say 49.99 is the sweet spot. I will admit, even though it's only a 10 dollar difference, if a game I want comes out at 50 bucks instead of 60, I won't even bat an eye when it comes to purchasing it.

I used to buy far more games during the Xbox/PS2 generation because they were 50 dollars.
 
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4. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 25, 2013, 20:57 killer_roach
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 25, 2013, 20:39:
I've speculated on pricing here a ton, and I'm 100% certain the publishers are investigating it.

I'd agree for the most part, speaking as an MA in Applied Econ with some research focus in price theory.

If anything, current prices for the "blockbuster" "tentpole" titles like a new Halo, Diablo, CoD, or the like are lower than the market could support. Possibly significantly so. However, there's enough alternatives to make being the first mover a bit gutsy. CoD is about the only one with the draw to try something like that and get away with it right now.

The problem for publishers right now is in terms of pricing their product at retail. Online, they can pretty much name their price and change it at will. Brick and mortar retailers will likely try to get their own pound of flesh out of such short-term sales, asking for things like refunding the difference on outstanding inventory or a window of exclusivity on a sale, things that you don't see as issues online presently. As a result, a publisher is likely forced to stick with frequent price drops throughout a game's life cycle, using time as a mechanism of price discrimination, but will have the benefit of being able to make such changes on a somewhat random basis such that consumers don't get caught in a habit of "waiting out the next sale".

I think going forward we're more likely to see moves toward maintaining (or possibly lowering) launch MSRP for many titles and then trying to upsell on various packages with preorders and launch copies (at the front end) and a steady stream of DLC (at the back end, especially so with games that have a following either in their multiplayer or in their single-player storylines).

However, the "frequent random sales" strategy is one that you'll likely see adopted as another way of coaxing out marginal buyers as more and more game sales move online.
 
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