Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Evening Consolidation

View
79 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 2.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 ] Older >

59. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 05:45 KilrathiAce
 
lol takes 5-10 years for consoles to try and catch up on the technology. Sony better pray things dont go wrong because they arent doing too well in any other arena of their business.  
Avatar 7413
 
"On 2646.215 I myself attacked & destroyed TCS Tiger's Claw in my Jalthi heavy fighter"
Bakhtosh Redclaw Nar Kiranka
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
58. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 05:35 Bhruic
 
ChandlerL wrote on Feb 21, 2013, 03:27:
Second, you're saying devs should purposefully create a game that cuts their potential steam customers in half even before they start. Pile on a consumer's genre preferences, mood, brand loyalty, past experiences and internet connection on top of that. If what you're saying is true, then we'd have PC-only 64-bit games right now yet we have but a scant few. I only came up with three, perhaps you can think of more.

No we wouldn't. Some developers started making DX10 only games when XP was still a substantial share of the market. They were doing exactly what you claimed devs wouldn't do - cutting out a large share of the market.

PS4/Xbox720 will not suffer these tribulations.

If you think that developers will immediately switch to 64 bit simply they are making it for PS4/XboxWhatever, you're delusional. Eventually it'll come, sure, but the first few years is going to continue to be 32 bit.

Incidentally, and dovetailing with this conversation, Epic's Mark Rein said that most PC gamers play on their laptops- most of which use integrated Intel GPUs. He said this today after the PS4 event.

Yes, because he gets private stats on what "most PC gamers" are playing on. Funny how you dimiss Steam as being not representative of PC gamers, but then accept Rein's comment on face value.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
57. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 04:04 jacobvandy
 
ChandlerL wrote on Feb 21, 2013, 03:27:
jacobvandy wrote on Feb 21, 2013, 03:18:
I don't think that's the reason... Any rational development studio can look at Steam stats and see that more than half of PC gamers use 64-bit Windows 7. Counting the other 64-bit OS usage like Win 8 or Vista brings that up to a two-thirds majority.

First, that's not half of PC gamers. That's half of Steam gamers. Second, you're saying devs should purposefully create a game that cuts their potential steam customers in half even before they start. Pile on a consumer's genre preferences, mood, brand loyalty, past experiences and internet connection on top of that. If what you're saying is true, then we'd have PC-only 64-bit games right now yet we have but a scant few. I only came up with three, perhaps you can think of more.

PS4/Xbox720 will not suffer these tribulations.

Incidentally, and dovetailing with this conversation, Epic's Mark Rein said that most PC gamers play on their laptops- most of which use integrated Intel GPUs. He said this today after the PS4 event.

Hey, I don't like it either but that's what's out there.

First, it's called a representative sample, and it's the largest one we've got. That's how data is collected and analyzed, regardless of what the subject matter is, because it's impossible to collect information from every single person on Earth. Second, supporting 64-bit does NOT exclude 32-bit support... Every game you listed as an example does both.

You said the reason we don't see more 64-bit games is because of the install base of 32-bit operating systems, and I pointed to counter-evidence that most gamers are on a 64-bit OS now. It's not a matter of "if what I said is true," because those are facts. Ergo, the reason we don't have more 64-bit games has to do with something else. Laziness, maybe, or the fact that a sizable chunk of gamers still have 4GB or less of RAM, so 64-bit support wouldn't do anything for them.

Listen, I don't disagree with you that most games being 32-bit sucks. If anything, this next-generation of consoles standardized PCs will do a lot to assuage that, which is a good thing. Provided developers are actually able to take advantage of all that RAM, and it's not a case of Sony/MS wanting to use half of it for running all their OS crap in the background while you play...
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
56. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 03:38 InBlack
 
PHJF wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 19:56:
I like how AMD is on the rocks and they will be totally controlling the both big consoles in both proc and gpu

How much money do you expect them to get out of this when we pretty well know the console itself will be sold at a loss? It's like hosting the olympics.

At Sony's loss. Not at AMDs loss, no fucking way.
 
Avatar 46994
 
I have a nifty blue line!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
55. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 03:27 ChandlerL
 
jacobvandy wrote on Feb 21, 2013, 03:18:
I don't think that's the reason... Any rational development studio can look at Steam stats and see that more than half of PC gamers use 64-bit Windows 7. Counting the other 64-bit OS usage like Win 8 or Vista brings that up to a two-thirds majority.

First, that's not half of PC gamers. That's half of Steam gamers. Second, you're saying devs should purposefully create a game that cuts their potential steam customers in half even before they start. Pile on a consumer's genre preferences, mood, brand loyalty, past experiences and internet connection on top of that. If what you're saying is true, then we'd have PC-only 64-bit games right now yet we have but a scant few. I only came up with three, perhaps you can think of more.

PS4/Xbox720 will not suffer these tribulations.

Incidentally, and dovetailing with this conversation, Epic's Mark Rein said that most PC gamers play on their laptops- most of which use integrated Intel GPUs. He said this today after the PS4 event.

Hey, I don't like it either but that's what's out there.

This comment was edited on Feb 21, 2013, 03:43.
 
Avatar 57459
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
54. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 03:18 jacobvandy
 
ChandlerL wrote on Feb 21, 2013, 03:09:
Well at least the PS4 is going to run 64-bit software that can access all that memory. Meanwhile in PC land, we still get 32-bit games that address 2GB. Pseudo-limitation due to installed base.

Hopefully that rectifies itself in the coming year. Having more usable memory for a process (game) is what will allow us to get that "next-gen" experience.

Crysis 2 - 32bit, BF3 - 32bit, Witcher 2 - 32bit, Crysis 3 - 32bit, Guild Wars 2 - 32bit, SWTOR - 32bit, Planetside 2, Skyrim, Diablo 3.. Mass Effect 3, Secret World, ad...nauseum- many of which were or are PC only.

Damn that 32-bit Windows installed base. Damn it to hell.

Thinking off the top of my head-- 64-bit games. DCS A-10, X-Plane, and ah yes. World of Warcraft. Well thank god for that, yah?

I don't think that's the reason... Any rational development studio can look at Steam stats and see that more than half of PC gamers use 64-bit Windows 7. Counting the other 64-bit OS usage like Win 8 or Vista brings that up to a two-thirds majority.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
53. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 03:09 ChandlerL
 
Well at least the PS4 is going to run 64-bit software that can access all that memory. Meanwhile in PC land, we still get 32-bit games that address 2GB. Pseudo-limitation due to installed base.

Hopefully that rectifies itself in the coming year. Having more usable memory for a process (game) is what will allow us to get that "next-gen" experience.

Crysis 2 - 32bit, Battlefield 3 - 32bit, Witcher 2 - 32bit, Crysis 3 - 32bit, Guild Wars 2 - 32bit, SWTOR - 32bit, Planetside 2, Skyrim, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 3, Secret World, Xcom, ad...nauseum- some of which were or are PC only.

Damn that 32-bit Windows installed base. Damn it to hell.

Thinking off the top of my head-- 64-bit games. DCS A-10, X-Plane, and ah yes. World of Warcraft. Well thank god for that, yah?

This comment was edited on Feb 21, 2013, 03:19.
 
Avatar 57459
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
52. Re: More Big Picture Details Feb 21, 2013, 02:42 jacobvandy
 
mag wrote on Feb 21, 2013, 00:00:
SirKnight wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 23:45:
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 20:14:
zombiefan wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 20:11:
8 cores, high-end GPU, cutting edge graphics....sounds like they're just describing what we already have on the PC.

Sounds like dev and porting should be a breeze. What needs to happen is all three platforms come up with a standardized OS for all. The PC would then be the console w k/m and user controlled upgrade path. The rumors look to be true, stating high-end GPU would be pushing it, it was very mediocre from what I recall.


Yeah, not a high end GPU at all. It's capable of ~1.8 TFLOPS. Which in NVIDIA land would be a 660. The 680 pushes 3TFLOPS, which IS high end. Too bad they didn't put a 680 in there. :/ So this means, yet AGAIN, it's already outdated to my PC long before it comes out.

But, at least we'll be getting PC games with graphics that actually use the current GPUs well...for a little while. Of course, this will once again change shortly as PC GPUs advance so fast.

Come on. Did you really expect them to stick a $500 video card in a $400 console?

No you come on. Do you really think Sony would be paying retail for those chips?

NegaDeath wrote on Feb 21, 2013, 01:26:
Pleasantly surprised, more power than I expected. And being so similar to PC it should make PS4->PC ports far easier for devs to pull off.

I know we're all used to calling PC versions ports... But with identical hardware, it's not really a port, is it? I mean, aside from removing whatever encryption junk Sony wants to put on it to secure their game discs, I don't really see them needing to do much of anything special to make a Windows version work.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
51. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 01:52 dubfanatic
 
The new phone books are here! The new phone books are here!

Things are going to start happening to me now!
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
50. Re: More Big Picture Details Feb 21, 2013, 01:29 Draugr
 
SirKnight wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 23:45:

Yeah, not a high end GPU at all. It's capable of ~1.8 TFLOPS. Which in NVIDIA land would be a 660. The 680 pushes 3TFLOPS, which IS high end. Too bad they didn't put a 680 in there. :/ So this means, yet AGAIN, it's already outdated to my PC long before it comes out.

But, at least we'll be getting PC games with graphics that actually use the current GPUs well...for a little while. Of course, this will once again change shortly as PC GPUs advance so fast.

Yeah, but I think the memory was a big stickler more than anything.
That 8GB of ram is more important than the horsepower of the GPU, I would argue. You're right to an extant of course, there will always be playing catch up, but with a decent amount of memory we won't be stuck in a world where most games are designed with only half a gig of memory in mind. I also think 8 gigs is a bit more future proof than half a gig was at the time of last generations release. They could have done better, but as you know they want to keep their costs down.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
49. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 01:26 NegaDeath
 
Pleasantly surprised, more power than I expected. And being so similar to PC it should make PS4->PC ports far easier for devs to pull off.  
Avatar 57352
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
48. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 21, 2013, 00:37 Jivaro
 
Like every other gaming console announcement ever....we walk away with more questions then answers and whole bunch of skepticism.

A lot of it sounded cool, a lot of what they failed to mention or display is worrisome.

I did laugh at little when I found out about Diablo 3 though...in hindsight that was pretty predictable I suppose.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
47. Re: More Big Picture Details Feb 21, 2013, 00:00 mag
 
SirKnight wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 23:45:
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 20:14:
zombiefan wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 20:11:
8 cores, high-end GPU, cutting edge graphics....sounds like they're just describing what we already have on the PC.

Sounds like dev and porting should be a breeze. What needs to happen is all three platforms come up with a standardized OS for all. The PC would then be the console w k/m and user controlled upgrade path. The rumors look to be true, stating high-end GPU would be pushing it, it was very mediocre from what I recall.


Yeah, not a high end GPU at all. It's capable of ~1.8 TFLOPS. Which in NVIDIA land would be a 660. The 680 pushes 3TFLOPS, which IS high end. Too bad they didn't put a 680 in there. :/ So this means, yet AGAIN, it's already outdated to my PC long before it comes out.

But, at least we'll be getting PC games with graphics that actually use the current GPUs well...for a little while. Of course, this will once again change shortly as PC GPUs advance so fast.

Come on. Did you really expect them to stick a $500 video card in a $400 console?
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
46. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 20, 2013, 23:57 Jensen
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 20:50:
Redmask wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 20:16:
I can't believe they didn't show a picture of it, that's a pretty basic thing.

I'm surprised by how upset people on the Internet are getting about this. The box gets shoved under the TV and never looked at except when changing discs. Does it really matter that much?

Heck, I doubt you'll even have to change discs.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
45. Re: More Big Picture Details Feb 20, 2013, 23:45 SirKnight
 
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 20:14:
zombiefan wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 20:11:
8 cores, high-end GPU, cutting edge graphics....sounds like they're just describing what we already have on the PC.

Sounds like dev and porting should be a breeze. What needs to happen is all three platforms come up with a standardized OS for all. The PC would then be the console w k/m and user controlled upgrade path. The rumors look to be true, stating high-end GPU would be pushing it, it was very mediocre from what I recall.


Yeah, not a high end GPU at all. It's capable of ~1.8 TFLOPS. Which in NVIDIA land would be a 660. The 680 pushes 3TFLOPS, which IS high end. Too bad they didn't put a 680 in there. :/ So this means, yet AGAIN, it's already outdated to my PC long before it comes out.

But, at least we'll be getting PC games with graphics that actually use the current GPUs well...for a little while. Of course, this will once again change shortly as PC GPUs advance so fast.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
44. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 20, 2013, 23:15 Draugr
 
Well, if Blizzard is anything like a console dev who waits a year to put their game out on PC, I'm looking forward to them blaming their sales numbers on piracy.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
43. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 20, 2013, 22:52 Verno
 
Redmask wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 22:21:
I wasn't happy to hear that Diablo 3 Console will supposedly get an offline mode, what the fuck? How are the battle net forums not exploding with that one?

It was frustrating, I thought the timing would coincide with a PC expansion pack or something. Console versions mean games get updates less frequently due to certification costs and hassle. That means it's just going to take that much longer and be much more work to get Diablo 3 to the place it should be. If an expansion pack has problems then fixes will be much longer in arriving. Metzen also went against their established claims about why their netcode prevents proper evasion, in a different talk with GameTrailers he says they're going to add a literal Evade function to the console version and said something about a 4 player co-op and possibly an offline mode.

People knew this was coming, there's a reason the game has a UI that looks like it was designed for a gamepad with limited skill loadout and other simplified features. I think most figured Blizzard would fix the game first and maybe release an expansion or something. He talked as if they're doing it internally too, although there was no confirmation either way.

The Sony presentation was what I expected, a jumpstart on the big PR war this year without much meat on the bone. I didn't see anything there that put me off but I wasn't exactly jumping either. It was still light years ahead of the past few MS conference showings thankfully, with actual games and developers instead of some strange cult outfits and Kinect nonsense.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: Pioneer, Predestination, Homeland
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
42. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 20, 2013, 22:46 Yosemite Sam
 
Redmask wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 22:21:
nin wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 21:41:

It is neat, I agree. But not something I'll fork over another $200 for.

It wasn't a bad conference. But I was kind of expecting them to hit it out of the park tonight.


- status of used games
- hardware design
- storage capacity
- PSN free or not going forward
- what is built in and what isnt
- status of popular franchises like GT, Uncharted, etc (probably will come later)

I wasn't happy to hear that Diablo 3 Console will supposedly get an offline mode, what the fuck? How are the battle net forums not exploding with that one?

Pretty sure I heard PSN is still free, but I bet the cloud service will be a premium PS+ feature... and they did mention a standard HD... 250gig being mentioned specifically IIRC. Was one nice thing about the PS3, it used a standard 3.5' HD, I bought the 25gig modle and plopped in a 300gig drive.

EDIT: I'm not much of a social gamer so these features really mean nothing to me but, damn. Being able to broadcast your game while you play and have spectators who can interact with you... on any connected device!... even take over your character and play for you. The built in connection with Facebook, being able to save and upload vidoes while your still in game. Sony really understood where PSN fell short and has upped the anty big time. Microsoft had better have thought outside the box too and not just upped the power of the XBOX or they could find themselves behind the 8-ball this round.

This comment was edited on Feb 20, 2013, 22:57.
 
Avatar 21539
 
CIV4 MOD http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326525
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
41. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 20, 2013, 22:38 Creston
 
PHJF wrote on Feb 20, 2013, 19:56:
I like how AMD is on the rocks and they will be totally controlling the both big consoles in both proc and gpu

How much money do you expect them to get out of this when we pretty well know the console itself will be sold at a loss? It's like hosting the olympics.

Why do you think AMD is eating that loss? What on earth would possibly possess them to sell their hardware at a loss when they have no other way to make up for it? The loss is Sony's and MS's. Not AMD's.

Sony and MS are buying CPUs and GPUs in mass bulk, and AMD is making money on every single one sold. Probably not a ton, I'm guessing we're talking a few bucks per unit, but shit, if the consoles wind up selling 60-70 million each again, it's a nice windfall for them.

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
40. Re: Evening Consolidation Feb 20, 2013, 22:34 Creston
 
If Sony was a car manufacturer, they'd reveal a Geo Metro and call it a "supercharged Mustang!" Rolleyes I guess this was considered supercharged back in 2007 when they began designing it.

At least it has a decent amount of RAM. For the first time ever, a console game might actually be able to run decently sized maps.

Integrating Gaikai as a "try before you buy" service is clever. Obviously it's really about the only thing it's good for, but it's smart to integrate it seamlessly. Most people won't have a clue what's happening when they try something through gaikai, except that the "demo version" looks and runs like shit. (though non-savy people with less than stellar internet connections will really worry why their system isn't running the games right, and they are likely to flood Sony with support calls.)

On PlayStation 4, we'll be able to go past the 30,000 polygons of the characters in games like Beyond: Two Souls to highly realistic, real-time characters that are only possible on CGI movies currently. "We start to reach a point where you can see very subtle emotions on the face of the character... where you can see his soul just looking in his eyes... We are now only limited by our imagination."

*cough* horseshit *cough*
Funny how I mentioned the 'emotion engine' nonsense just earlier today, and Sony apparently thought it was high time to polish off that turd from the past and re-use it.

Anyway, the one really good thing I see in this is that it uses both AMD an processor and an ATI GPU, so hopefully that should keep AMD afloat long enough for them to be able to turn their misfortunes around.

Other than that, eh. Put Red Dead Redemption 2 and GTA5 on it looking like fucking diamonds, and I'll buy one.

Creston

 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
79 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 2.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo