Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion

Kotaku has a running summary of an discussion taking place over twitter over whether the Tiny Tina character in Borderlands 2 is racist, based on the white character's use of clichéd African-American slang. Some have expressed the opinion that this is "verbal blackface," and after originally resisting, lead writer Anthony Burch moved on to try to expand the discussion to see if he needed to re-work the character's dialog in future releases. Randy Pitchford's take on this is that it's not racist as long as it was not written by a racist: "@reverendanthony tina is not racist because you are not racist. You're a pillar of tolerance and inclusion." Thanks nin.

View
140 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ] Older >

140. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 7, 2013, 16:43 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 7, 2013, 13:35:
RollinThundr wrote on Feb 7, 2013, 09:43:
Verno wrote on Feb 7, 2013, 08:52:
Yes they are, though hard work is what makes those opportunities work.

Everyone doesn't have the same opportunities available to them though, you are missing the point. That would be fine because society will never be truly equal but when it's due to racism, classism and other factors is what people are talking about.

No kidding, that's why you need to work hard to attain said opportunities. Life isn't easy, and it never will be easy, it's going to be harder for some to get ahead, I'm not missing the point. I just don't have a bleeding heart for everyone who doesn't have everything they want.


So hard work is all it takes? Isn't that part of the mantra that doomed the GOP this year?

I can't fathom believing something so naive.

Do you think if we lined up the BluesNews posters by income we'd also line them up by how hard they work?
Do you think the coal miners in Kentucky making $20,000 per year are lazy?

If we look at the graduation rate for black people and see it's significantly below that of any other rate, is the only conclusion we can reach that they're a bunch of lazy jerks that don't work hard?
Isn't that racist?


You claim to have seen it all, but you're so naive it's impossible to believe. Go into an inner city school. See the parents, who are barely there. See the kids, who weren't read to as children. See them not do homework because no one other than the teacher gives a shit if they do or not (and, honestly, after a few years the teacher is probably so defeated that he doesn't care, either.)
When is this kid supposed to realize and start working hard? Are we really comfortable blaming an 8 year old for that?

And are you so insecure in your achievements that you are unwilling to believe you got some of them not due to hard work but due to the conditions you were born into?

And who's fault is that, mine? Sorry Beamer pass your guilt trip on someone else, I haven't had an easy life either and have worked for everything I have, but I suppose I don't count because my skin is white, so I must be privileged right? Sounds pretty racist huh?

And really stop putting words in my mouth, never once did I blame an 8 year old for anything. It's up to people, white or black or insert nationality here, to decide how to live their lives, not up to the government to hand hold them through life because they had it "tough"

No one called anyone lazy either, for someone who throws the strawman out anytime he can't debate something, you sure do throw out quite the number of strawmen yourself.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
139. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 7, 2013, 13:35 Beamer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Feb 7, 2013, 09:43:
Verno wrote on Feb 7, 2013, 08:52:
Yes they are, though hard work is what makes those opportunities work.

Everyone doesn't have the same opportunities available to them though, you are missing the point. That would be fine because society will never be truly equal but when it's due to racism, classism and other factors is what people are talking about.

No kidding, that's why you need to work hard to attain said opportunities. Life isn't easy, and it never will be easy, it's going to be harder for some to get ahead, I'm not missing the point. I just don't have a bleeding heart for everyone who doesn't have everything they want.


So hard work is all it takes? Isn't that part of the mantra that doomed the GOP this year?

I can't fathom believing something so naive.

Do you think if we lined up the BluesNews posters by income we'd also line them up by how hard they work?
Do you think the coal miners in Kentucky making $20,000 per year are lazy?

If we look at the graduation rate for black people and see it's significantly below that of any other rate, is the only conclusion we can reach that they're a bunch of lazy jerks that don't work hard?
Isn't that racist?


You claim to have seen it all, but you're so naive it's impossible to believe. Go into an inner city school. See the parents, who are barely there. See the kids, who weren't read to as children. See them not do homework because no one other than the teacher gives a shit if they do or not (and, honestly, after a few years the teacher is probably so defeated that he doesn't care, either.)
When is this kid supposed to realize and start working hard? Are we really comfortable blaming an 8 year old for that?

And are you so insecure in your achievements that you are unwilling to believe you got some of them not due to hard work but due to the conditions you were born into?
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
138. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 7, 2013, 10:23 Verno
 
RollinThundr wrote on Feb 7, 2013, 09:43:
No kidding, that's why you need to work hard to attain said opportunities. Life isn't easy, and it never will be easy, it's going to be harder for some to get ahead, I'm not missing the point. I just don't have a bleeding heart for everyone who doesn't have everything they want.

You can't solve every societal problem with a platitude about hard work, sorry, we're talking about things that go beyond individual effort and gumption. I'm probably more right leaning than you are and definitely not a bleeding heart, I just recognize we're a varied society in many ways including race. If we don't take care to recognize and understand circumstances affecting others and continue with the deceit that paranoid, self-interested capitalism and "hard work" is all that matters then we're going to continue ending up on the sidelines watching others govern.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: The Walking Dead, The Fall, As Above So Below
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
137. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 7, 2013, 09:43 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Feb 7, 2013, 08:52:
Yes they are, though hard work is what makes those opportunities work.

Everyone doesn't have the same opportunities available to them though, you are missing the point. That would be fine because society will never be truly equal but when it's due to racism, classism and other factors is what people are talking about.

No kidding, that's why you need to work hard to attain said opportunities. Life isn't easy, and it never will be easy, it's going to be harder for some to get ahead, I'm not missing the point. I just don't have a bleeding heart for everyone who doesn't have everything they want.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
136. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 7, 2013, 08:52 Verno
 
Yes they are, though hard work is what makes those opportunities work.

Everyone doesn't have the same opportunities available to them though, you are missing the point. That would be fine because society will never be truly equal but when it's due to racism, classism and other factors is what people are talking about.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: The Walking Dead, The Fall, As Above So Below
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
135. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 7, 2013, 08:12 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Feb 6, 2013, 15:57:
RollinThundr wrote on Feb 6, 2013, 15:38:

I get it, its a hell of a lot harder for a black kid from a shitty neighborhood to not get caught up in all the negative influences around them, but acting like they're owed something, isn't something I agree with. Life's fucking hard, wear a god damn helmet.

They are owed the same opportunities as you are which many do not get. I don't know how you reconcile your philosophy with society as a whole, the bootstraps individuality thing is fine but only goes so far, there are sometimes inherent advantages and disadvantages at work outside of a persons control.

Acting like everyone can live the American Dream if they just work harder isn't realistic, quite often hard work and education are divorced from success. People coast on nepotism, personality, background, looks and many other factors. Not all of those things are equal for all races either.

So while I don't think anyone is really "owed" anything extra, I do think that the playing field isn't always level and might never be. Sometimes I think we've come so far in my lifetime then I see a level of bigotry that is disturbing (even on the comments here as an example) and makes me worry.


Yes they are, though hard work is what makes those opportunities work.
I'm with you though, sometimes I think we've come so far and then I look at how easy it is nowadays for people to get butthurt over one thing or another and I have to say operation pussify America is going strong. Well done liberal educators.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
134. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 6, 2013, 15:57 Verno
 
RollinThundr wrote on Feb 6, 2013, 15:38:

I get it, its a hell of a lot harder for a black kid from a shitty neighborhood to not get caught up in all the negative influences around them, but acting like they're owed something, isn't something I agree with. Life's fucking hard, wear a god damn helmet.

They are owed the same opportunities as you are which many do not get. I don't know how you reconcile your philosophy with society as a whole, the bootstraps individuality thing is fine but only goes so far, there are sometimes inherent advantages and disadvantages at work outside of a persons control.

Acting like everyone can live the American Dream if they just work harder isn't realistic, quite often hard work and education are divorced from success. People coast on nepotism, personality, background, looks and many other factors. Not all of those things are equal for all races either.

So while I don't think anyone is really "owed" anything extra, I do think that the playing field isn't always level and might never be. Sometimes I think we've come so far in my lifetime then I see a level of bigotry that is disturbing (even on the comments here as an example) and makes me worry.

 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: The Walking Dead, The Fall, As Above So Below
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
133. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 6, 2013, 15:38 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 6, 2013, 15:31:
RollinThundr wrote on Feb 6, 2013, 12:49:
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 17:32:
It's easy for the white guy to say "it's 2013, we need to not worry about skin color!"

Because, again, he was far less likely to be born into poverty. His friends were less likely to be born into poverty. He was more likely to finish high school and get a degree.

And who is bringing up reparations? Again: strawman.

And African American's aren't capable of finishing high school? C'mon dude, skin color doesn't determine effort.

Are you ready?
This is what it looks like when I bash my head repeatedly on a keyboard because I realize I'm dealing with someone that has zero clue.

Ready?
sdsdopjfspsiphsdjopshiopg
Interestingly, seems like some of the bangs hit too many keys at once for any to register.

I don't even know how to spell it out in a way you can understand. Why do you think black kids are far, far, far less likely to graduate high school. I'd love to hear you explain this one. Either it's something in society, or it's something genetic.
Of course you'll say it isn't genetic, but then why shouldn't society try to fix what's a clear failing on its part?


I absolutely love that you're saying 12 year old kids need to be personally responsible. Asshat. Seriously, you're an asshat for saying that. It's stupid libertarian utopian bullshit. Have you ever even been to an impoverished inner city school? I will buy you a plane ticket and hotel room in Paterson, NJ if you're willing to spend a week teaching an after school computer program to the kids. I guarantee it totally changes your point of view. I used to be an asshat veering towards idiotic libertarian viewpoints, too. Fuck, man, I worked my ass off for what I have.

Then I grew up and realized how goddamn privileged I was to even have the doors open that I fought my way through.

I lived in a shit hole neighborhood in VA Beach for 3 years, trust me, I've seen it all, and still believe that if anyone of those folks wanted a better life, they could make it happen.

I don't care if it's a 12 year old or a 40 year old, if you want to have success in life you have to work for it. Success doesn't give a shit what skin color you are.

I get it, its a hell of a lot harder for a black kid from a shitty neighborhood to not get caught up in all the negative influences around them, but acting like they're owed something, isn't something I agree with. Life's fucking hard, wear a god damn helmet.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
132. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 6, 2013, 15:31 Beamer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Feb 6, 2013, 12:49:
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 17:32:
It's easy for the white guy to say "it's 2013, we need to not worry about skin color!"

Because, again, he was far less likely to be born into poverty. His friends were less likely to be born into poverty. He was more likely to finish high school and get a degree.

And who is bringing up reparations? Again: strawman.

And African American's aren't capable of finishing high school? C'mon dude, skin color doesn't determine effort.

Are you ready?
This is what it looks like when I bash my head repeatedly on a keyboard because I realize I'm dealing with someone that has zero clue.

Ready?
sdsdopjfspsiphsdjopshiopg
Interestingly, seems like some of the bangs hit too many keys at once for any to register.

I don't even know how to spell it out in a way you can understand. Why do you think black kids are far, far, far less likely to graduate high school. I'd love to hear you explain this one. Either it's something in society, or it's something genetic.
Of course you'll say it isn't genetic, but then why shouldn't society try to fix what's a clear failing on its part?


I absolutely love that you're saying 12 year old kids need to be personally responsible. Asshat. Seriously, you're an asshat for saying that. It's stupid libertarian utopian bullshit. Have you ever even been to an impoverished inner city school? I will buy you a plane ticket and hotel room in Paterson, NJ if you're willing to spend a week teaching an after school computer program to the kids. I guarantee it totally changes your point of view. I used to be an asshat veering towards idiotic libertarian viewpoints, too. Fuck, man, I worked my ass off for what I have.

Then I grew up and realized how goddamn privileged I was to even have the doors open that I fought my way through.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
131. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 6, 2013, 15:21 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Feb 6, 2013, 13:29:
Uh, you might want to revisit that comment before other people see it, that is some borderline shit man.

Beamer is the one going on about opportunities and the like based on skin color or upbringing. Which while it does obviously affect people, still isn't an viable excuse.

Anyone regardless of skin color or upbringing has the chance to make something of their lives via hard work, setting goals and being personally responsible. That's fact, the PC crowd can deny it all they want and scream racism, that doesn't make it true.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
130. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 6, 2013, 13:29 Verno
 
Uh, you might want to revisit that comment before other people see it, that is some borderline shit man.  
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: The Walking Dead, The Fall, As Above So Below
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
129. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 6, 2013, 12:49 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 17:32:
It's easy for the white guy to say "it's 2013, we need to not worry about skin color!"

Because, again, he was far less likely to be born into poverty. His friends were less likely to be born into poverty. He was more likely to finish high school and get a degree.

And who is bringing up reparations? Again: strawman.

And African American's aren't capable of finishing high school? C'mon dude, skin color doesn't determine effort.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
128. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 5, 2013, 18:19 Quboid
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 17:32:
It's easy for the white guy to say "it's 2013, we need to not worry about skin color!"

Because, again, he was far less likely to be born into poverty. His friends were less likely to be born into poverty. He was more likely to finish high school and get a degree.

And who is bringing up reparations? Again: strawman.

I didn't touch on his comment about being owed something because I wasn't sure how literally he meant it. He could have meant positive discrimination, which I don't like (the clue is in the second word, 2 wrongs don't make a right!).

Northern Ireland has somewhat similar issues because the Protestant British came in and took what they wanted from the Catholic Irish - you may have heard about some little disputes we've had over the last few hundred years. As a result, there are a couple of small towns near here with my family name on them and suffice to say they weren't named by delighted locals desperate to pay tribute to their Scottish saviours. However, anyone hoping to get reparations from me will be sorely disappointed.
 
Avatar 10439
 
- Quboid
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
127. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 5, 2013, 17:32 Beamer
 
It's easy for the white guy to say "it's 2013, we need to not worry about skin color!"

Because, again, he was far less likely to be born into poverty. His friends were less likely to be born into poverty. He was more likely to finish high school and get a degree.

And who is bringing up reparations? Again: strawman.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
126. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 5, 2013, 16:40 Quboid
 
I'm in danger of agreeing with you here.

RollinThundr wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 15:31:
Quboid wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 15:25:
I'm pretty sure I give an example of how there's more keeping black people disadvantaged than some black people using their victim status as an excuse to be an asshat.

Speaking of asshats, at this point the strawman that you're arguing against is getting embarrassed, and he's not even real. Average doesn't mean all.

That very well could be Quboid, it still doesn't excuse it. At what point do we move on however? Or do we just stay in this perpetual state of blacks are owed something because slavery existed? Hell guys like Reverend Al Sharpton have made a career out of this shit. And I use the term Reverend very loosely here.

We are moving on. Very, very slowly. I'd like to click my fingers and be done with it but unless I get can the memo to 7,000,000,000 other people, it still exists. This doesn't excuse individuals who use their victim status as an excuse to be more of a victim, which I think is a valid point that you're getting it.

A few years ago, Bill Cosby made a speech about this which was impressive:
"They think they're hip," the entertainer said. "They can't read; they can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."

He also had harsh words for black men who don't have jobs and are angry about their lives.

"You've got to stop beating up your women because you can't find a job, because you didn't want to get an education and now you're at minimum wage," Cosby said.

Generations of discrimination (decreasing, but still a serious issue) is a reason for problems, but it's not an excuse for perpetuating the problem within your own race. This is a generalisation, but that's my problem with black people using the N word. It's not racist like it would be if I used it (depending on context, I used it earlier in this thread and no one seemed to have a problem), but it is perpetuating the use of discrimination as an excuse for underachievement, rather than a reason.
 
Avatar 10439
 
- Quboid
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
125. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 5, 2013, 15:31 RollinThundr
 
Quboid wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 15:25:
I'm pretty sure I give an example of how there's more keeping black people disadvantaged than some black people using their victim status as an excuse to be an asshat.

Speaking of asshats, at this point the strawman that you're arguing against is getting embarrassed, and he's not even real. Average doesn't mean all.

That very well could be Quboid, it still doesn't excuse it. At what point do we move on however? Or do we just stay in this perpetual state of blacks are owed something because slavery existed? Hell guys like Reverend Al Sharpton have made a career out of this shit. And I use the term Reverend very loosely here.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
124. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 5, 2013, 15:25 Quboid
 
I'm pretty sure I give an example of how there's more keeping black people disadvantaged than some black people using their victim status as an excuse to be an asshat. Edit: And also how people have less control over their life as a result of discrimination. Black people can still rise to the top, but they have a longer way to climb.

Speaking of asshats, at this point the strawman that you're arguing against is getting embarrassed, and he's not even real. Average doesn't mean all.
 
Avatar 10439
 
- Quboid
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
123. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 5, 2013, 15:24 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 15:18:
R-e-a-d-i-n-g c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n

Total failure.

I said average, not all. Jesus, motherfucking jesus, holy shit are you stupid to think "average" means all. Did you even have a functional brain?

And here are the census results backing that up you goddamn moron too stupid to understand what people say and too dumb to ever use Google.

I know I'm going overboard here, but holy shit, to say "average" means "all" is, like, the absolute dumbest thing I've seen here in what, 16 years of reading and a decade of posting?

I misread average as all, my apologies, still however, if that really is your outlook I still feel bad for you. Worrying so much about skin color in 2013 and acting like people can't be in control of their own lives regardless if they're white, black, or space alien is something we most likely won't see eye to eye on anyway.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
122. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 5, 2013, 15:18 Beamer
 
R-e-a-d-i-n-g c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n

Total failure.

I said average, not all. Jesus, motherfucking jesus, holy shit are you stupid to think "average" means all. Did you even have a functional brain?

And here are the census results backing that up you goddamn moron too stupid to understand what people say and too dumb to ever use Google.

I know I'm going overboard here, but holy shit, to say "average" means "all" is, like, the absolute dumbest thing I've seen here in what, 16 years of reading and a decade of posting?
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
121. Re: Borderlands 2 Racism Discussion Feb 5, 2013, 15:12 RollinThundr
 
Quboid wrote on Feb 5, 2013, 14:55:
Perhaps he turned to crime because the caveman who manages the local Burger King hired the white kid instead of him.

Maybe he couldn't get a job because he has a criminal record from when a cop found weed on him - during a search that wouldn't have happened if he was white (as per the 28:1 search ratio I linked to before). Even when the 'victim' is guilty and deserves their punishment, discrimination contributes to racial disadvantage because the white guy with weed benefits by getting away with it, and then gets a job that the black guy couldn't get - even if the employer is totally non-discriminatory.

The thing is, individually, I agree with you. I've no sympathy for individuals who deservedly go to jail. However, when the same things happen to the same sections of society, something's gone wrong. Over generations and millions of people, this will add up and create social divides.

Beamer said nothing about no white kids being below the poverty line, you're arguing against a strawman. How are we as a world and as people in general ever going to move on if we bury our heads in the sand?

BTW, everyone judges people by looking at them, to some extent. Everyone.

Actually he said the whites are all middle class, or generally at the very least. Which alone is eye roll inducing.

Yes there are intolerant and racist people in this world and that sucks, but to say it excuses anyone to be an asshat based on it doesn't work either. Two wrongs don't make a right as the old saying goes.

"So life for an average black kid and average white kid are very different, because an average black kid is in or near poverty and an average white kid is in the middle class. Sure, we can compare a middle class black kid to a middle class white kid, but so far fewer black kids are in middle class so what's the point. Beyond that, even if a black kid is in the middle class when he goes out people see him and generally assume he, like the average black kid, isn't."

This statement bothers me a lot, no really they're not any different, both of them regardless of background can have a successful life regardless of skin color.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
140 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo