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Steam in Hot Water in the EU?

A This recent article follows on news from last year of a possible legal battle over the inability to resell games bought via Steam, which conflicts with a recent EU legal ruling. Word is the VZBV has filed a complaint in a Berlin district court over this. GameSpot has a response from Valve to this, as the company says it has not received a formal notice about his. "We are aware of the press release about the lawsuit filed by the VZBV, but we have not yet seen the actual complaint," Valve said. "That said, we understand the complaint is somehow regarding the transferability of Steam accounts, despite the fact that this issue has already been ruled upon favorably to Valve in a prior case between Valve and the VZBV by the German supreme court. For now, we are continuing to extend the Steam services to gamers in Germany and around the world."

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48 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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28. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 09:06 eRe4s3r
 
Same here, I literally never buy anything full price anymore, because I am stuck with it.. MP games I know I am gonna play 300+ hrs excluded.. but that's like.. 1 every 5 years.  
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27. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 08:59 PHJF
 
Why are you blaming Steam for no resales. They have NOTHING to do with that

Considering Valve doesn't offer resales/trades of their own games I'd say they very much have something to do with it.

I always assumed they've been working toward "used" game trades at the very least (not necessarily resales) what with the whole Steam Inventory thing and whatnot.

As soon as Steam offers trades or ideally resales (even limited ones, say limit a digital copy to a single transfer of ownership) I'll start buying things at MSRP.
 
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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26. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 08:18 El Pit
 
Steam, vee have vays to make you cooperate. Zis is not phunny!  
Consoles? I owned two: a Pong clone and an Atari 2600. And that's it.
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25. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 07:32 Cutter
 
Why are you blaming Steam for no resales. They have NOTHING to do with that. Talk to the devs, publishers, and politicians. I'd wager that Gabe could probably personally care less if people resold or traded their games away.
 
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James Woods: Oh that's fun. That sounds like you had a fun time. Where would I fit in with the fun time, huh? Where does James Woods fit into the fun?
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24. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 07:04 Golwar
 
Dev wrote on Feb 2, 2013, 00:25:
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Feb 1, 2013, 23:57:
Dev wrote on Feb 1, 2013, 22:17:
Pretty sure they are. And even when specific pieces are found that aren't binding or violating the law, the EULA says the rest of it is.
If by "pretty sure they are" you mean in the US then that's about it. For everywhere else, then no. Because EULA's fall into contract law, and for contract law to apply various provisions of the said law have to be equal to both parties. If the contract is unfair to one side then the entire contract is considered void. The EU in itself is more stringent on this than Canada is.
By "pretty sure" I mean that I haven't bothered to look at all the countries outside of the one I live in. EU is a mix of country and EU laws. If YOU want to research it for other countries feel free.

One of the ones I have heard about is germany. I've heard that in germany, it could potentially be if its agreed to before purchase. Steam asks you to agree before purchase.

Jesus, I'm glad that we haven't your sense of justice here. Just because someone doesn't grant you an alternative option, doesn't mean that it is legal what he requires from you. Please keep that EULA-logic on your side of the ocean, thank you.
 
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23. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 06:40 eRe4s3r
 
Who knows... Likely Steam will do what you said last, make it an EU only option.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. The EU courts ruled that, no matter what the EULA SAYS, you are allowed, and have the RIGHT, to resell a game you bought. But German courts haven't exactly agreed on the issue so far (they probably want to have the government make a specific law about it, because currently the EU law hasn't been transferred fully over.. I am actually hoping this lawsuit works out because the next targets would be the publishers (EA!, UBISOFT) who deadlock games via account registration and make them nontransferable.

I hope this brings about change because the way I see it, when I buy something, I have the right to sell it. EU courts agree. German courts have not really decided yet...
 
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22. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 05:54 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Dev wrote on Feb 2, 2013, 00:25:
By "pretty sure" I mean that I haven't bothered to look at all the countries outside of the one I live in. EU is a mix of country and EU laws. If YOU want to research it for other countries feel free.

One of the ones I have heard about is germany. I've heard that in germany, it could potentially be if its agreed to before purchase. Steam asks you to agree before purchase.
Then it's always a good thing that you should probably look up the case law before opening your mouth isn't it? Otherwise you wouldn't know what you're talking about, much like you have in all of your previous posts including this one. Or how the harmonization of laws and regulations across the EU impacts this, though interpretation of said regulations and laws at a country level differ based on each countries own case laws and precedents.

So, regardless of whether or not steam "asking" you anything. A "click through" is not considered anymore valid than "shrink wrap". Another reason why steam had to setup a satellite in the EU,and another in Estonia.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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21. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 05:27 jacobvandy
 
Eh, if push comes to shove, I wonder if they could ever decide to discontinue the Steam service in Germany or wherever else they insist on enforcing foreign regulations on a US-based company/service. At least, that's what I would expect to happen if they're having to weigh the revenue from customers there against punitive sanctions levied by such watchdog organizations. Or would they allow the buying and selling of games or accounts between EU customers only?

This comment was edited on Feb 2, 2013, 05:32.
 
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20. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 03:47 eRe4s3r
 
The EU is equalizing laws and regulations. This is why in Germany you *can* sue Steam based on an EU regulation which is valid everywhere in the EU (however, Interpretations and enforcement may differ nationally). The courts ruled that steam has to make stuff bought resealable or (somehow) ownership transferable. It failed to do so.


The rest of the EULA is valid even if a part of it is void. But in this case the part is the entire section about purchases, ownership and transfer of it. So basically, 100% of what Steam actually is and does. This does not make the rest (non illegal) parts of the Eula invalid.

Also if Steam does not adhere to EU law, you can sue them in a EU court after you won the national court case. The EU courts are not kind to companies ignoring previous national rulings. So I am half hoping Steam is that stupid. Just for entertainment...

The VZBZ is our customer protection thingy so they are not sissies. If Steam thinks they can fight this out.. well if they enjoy paying lawyers?

This comment was edited on Feb 2, 2013, 03:53.
 
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19. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 03:42 siapnar
 
I really don't see how anyone could find Steam annoying or intrusive upon their rights.
I've had nothing but smooth sailing for the lengthy time I've used the service.
 
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I have projectile dysfunction.
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18. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 03:38 KilrathiAce
 
so this story is basically just some "steam" and no water, no real story here hehe.  
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"On 2646.215 I myself attacked & destroyed TCS Tiger's Claw in my Jalthi heavy fighter"
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17. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 02:01 Dev
 
netnerd85 wrote on Feb 2, 2013, 01:29:
Dev wrote on Feb 2, 2013, 01:09:
netnerd85 wrote on Feb 2, 2013, 00:44:
Valve do need a good, hard, smack - about users legal rights. Their ninja-tiger grip on PC DRM has gone far enough.
There's this thing called GoG.
Yes I buy from there and your point?
My point is there's DRM free alternatives to steam. Steam doesn't have a monopoly.
 
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16. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 01:29 netnerd85
 
Dev wrote on Feb 2, 2013, 01:09:
netnerd85 wrote on Feb 2, 2013, 00:44:
Valve do need a good, hard, smack - about users legal rights. Their ninja-tiger grip on PC DRM has gone far enough.
There's this thing called GoG.
Yes I buy from there and your point?
 
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15. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 01:09 Dev
 
netnerd85 wrote on Feb 2, 2013, 00:44:
Valve do need a good, hard, smack - about users legal rights. Their ninja-tiger grip on PC DRM has gone far enough.
There's this thing called GoG.
 
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14. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 00:44 netnerd85
 
Valve do need a good, hard, smack - about users legal rights. Their ninja-tiger grip on PC DRM has gone far enough.  
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13. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 2, 2013, 00:25 Dev
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Feb 1, 2013, 23:57:
Dev wrote on Feb 1, 2013, 22:17:
Pretty sure they are. And even when specific pieces are found that aren't binding or violating the law, the EULA says the rest of it is.
If by "pretty sure they are" you mean in the US then that's about it. For everywhere else, then no. Because EULA's fall into contract law, and for contract law to apply various provisions of the said law have to be equal to both parties. If the contract is unfair to one side then the entire contract is considered void. The EU in itself is more stringent on this than Canada is.
By "pretty sure" I mean that I haven't bothered to look at all the countries outside of the one I live in. EU is a mix of country and EU laws. If YOU want to research it for other countries feel free.

One of the ones I have heard about is germany. I've heard that in germany, it could potentially be if its agreed to before purchase. Steam asks you to agree before purchase.
 
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12. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 1, 2013, 23:57 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Dev wrote on Feb 1, 2013, 22:17:
Pretty sure they are. And even when specific pieces are found that aren't binding or violating the law, the EULA says the rest of it is.
If by "pretty sure they are" you mean in the US then that's about it. For everywhere else, then no. Because EULA's fall into contract law, and for contract law to apply various provisions of the said law have to be equal to both parties. If the contract is unfair to one side then the entire contract is considered void. The EU in itself is more stringent on this than Canada is.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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11. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 1, 2013, 23:33 Ahumado
 
Not being able to sell what you buy is not right. How that ever was enacted or allowed to persist means someone is watching someone else's back and not in a good way.  
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10. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 1, 2013, 23:00 Kosumo
 
I thought you would have to have hot water at lest to have Steam? Singing Spot_right

Thank you, thank you, Thursday is family night, children are free. Family
 
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9. Re: Steam in Hot Water in the EU? Feb 1, 2013, 22:27 Dagnamit
 
Grow up.  
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48 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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