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Crysis 3 Crisis Averted

The Terms of Service for the new Crysis 3 open beta includes language about banning players for not reporting bugs, recalling the recently quelled controversy over the SimCity beta ToS threating a mab from all EA games for failure to report bugs. This new End-User License Agreement issue apparently has the same resolution as the previous one, as games.on.net notes a tweet explaining: "We did - it was baked into the Beta before we realized it had the 'Bug Ban' clause. We aren't enforcing that." They also link a follow-up tweet saying: "We'll be releasing a blog post about that soon, but for now rest assured we aren't banning players for finding bugs." So we now know why EULAs and ToSes are so lengthy: Even the people making the games can't be bothered to read the crap they let their lawyers stuff into them.

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39. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:48 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 15:41:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 15:31:
Bunch of anti-Valve rhetoric

Now we get the truth here, you don't care about EA, you just think people are too kind to Valve. I don't really care much one way or the other about Valve and I don't think you're some special snowflake who views the industry different than the rest of us. Valve just screws the consumer less and is in the news less for it. They have built up good will by creating value and being very consumer friendly in their decisions, there is no magical component to this. They don't exactly take victory laps of their steam sales either, Valve is generally very uncommunicative compared to other companies.

People will swing the other way on Valve when they start getting into the kinds of shit EA is. For example I saw plenty of criticism when they added the no class action revision to their EULA. So relax, Valve will gets it comeuppance if it deserves it.

By the way, of course everyone wants to make money, its all about HOW they do it that matters to people.

Not really, I don't care either way, having no personal stake in either company, though I have to admit I've enjoyed far more titles out of EA than I have Valve over the years. I was using Valve as an example since they as a company tend to be put up on a pedestal.
 
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38. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:41 Verno
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 15:31:
Bunch of anti-Valve rhetoric

Now we get the truth here, you don't care about EA, you just think people are too kind to Valve. I don't really care much one way or the other about Valve and I don't think you're some special snowflake who views the industry different than the rest of us. Valve just screws the consumer less and is in the news less for it. They have built up good will by creating value and being very consumer friendly in their decisions, there is no magical component to this. They don't exactly take victory laps of their steam sales either, Valve is generally very uncommunicative compared to other companies.

People will swing the other way on Valve when they start getting into the kinds of shit EA is. For example I saw plenty of criticism when they added the no class action revision to their EULA. So relax, Valve will gets it comeuppance if it deserves it.

By the way, of course everyone wants to make money, its all about HOW they do it that matters to people.
 
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37. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:31 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 15:23:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 15:18:
I do get it, hell I've given EA plenty of my own shit over the years as well, but it doesn't get old to you when people use the same tired excuses to bash EA for the sake of it?

Has nothing to do with this trend of yours to pull the "Boosnews is so negative and unfair!!" crap that people tend to do when they don't like the discussion content. It's being discussed because its in the news and its news because they keep making boneheaded decisions. EA had good press for a few years when they were making original IP again and started actually caring about their ports. People don't do it with Activision because there is a lot less of it to talk about. When they were murdering Guitar Hero and not patching fucked up ports people were bitching plenty.

Take Origin for example, it's essentially steam but people hate it and swear to never use it simply because EA's name is attached.

Different topic for a different discussion. I think EA has given people plenty of reason to distrust a digital client effort though whereas Valve has historically done the opposite. Acting as if everyone should just ignore the history of the companies behind the products themselves is not only unrealistic but poor consumer decision making. So while I don't personally care much one way or the other about Origin, it's easy to see why some people do.

See I think I just look at the industry as a whole, different than the lot of you, I don't view Valve as any better to their customers than EA, their titles to me aren't very good games, TF2 for example I actually might have been interested in had they stuck to how it was going to look initially rather than the cartoon joke it looks like now, and they break promises often, "Episodic gaming will help us work faster" Yeah Gabe hows that HL episode 3 working out?

Or how they trumpet their precious steam sales where it's always the same handful of titles that have been on sale 10 times already.

I suppose it all comes down to perception, every publisher out there cares about 1 thing, money. None of them, including precious Valve, gives 2 shits about the customer base.
 
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36. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:23 Verno
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 15:18:
I do get it, hell I've given EA plenty of my own shit over the years as well, but it doesn't get old to you when people use the same tired excuses to bash EA for the sake of it?

Has nothing to do with this trend of yours to pull the "Boosnews is so negative and unfair!!" crap that people tend to do when they don't like the discussion content. It's being discussed because its in the news and its news because they keep making boneheaded decisions. EA had good press for a few years when they were making original IP again and started actually caring about their ports. People don't do it with Activision because there is a lot less of it to talk about. When they were murdering Guitar Hero and not patching fucked up ports people were bitching plenty.

I mean come on, spoiler alert but in a topic where EA did or is doing something shitty, people will be saying bad things about them. That's not unique to here either, go read the comments anywhere.

Take Origin for example, it's essentially steam but people hate it and swear to never use it simply because EA's name is attached.

Different topic for a different discussion. I think EA has given people plenty of reason to distrust a digital client effort whereas Valve has historically done the opposite. Acting as if everyone should just ignore the history of the companies behind the products themselves is not only unrealistic but poor consumer decision making. So while I don't personally care much one way or the other about Origin, it's easy to see why some people do.

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 2013, 15:33.
 
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35. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:18 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 15:01:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:58:
Why would I blame Blue for poster's content? I get it, most of you think EA is satan incarnate as a company. It's old at this point, as much as my bitching about bitching is old.

No you don't get it, you're just continually ignoring whats said to you. EA isn't satan anymore than Activision is but they do plenty of dumb shit to get themselves into gamers bad graces and the news. Have a problem with it? It starts with them, not the users. No one is making you click on the comments here and read about it either.

I do get it, hell I've given EA plenty of my own shit over the years as well, but it doesn't get old to you when people use the same tired excuses to bash EA for the sake of it?

Take Origin for example, it's essentially steam but people hate it and swear to never use it simply because EA's name is attached.
 
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34. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:14 DangerDog
 
It's all just a big misunderstanding, what they really wanted was to ban you from all of your EA games if you bad mouth the beta in in way.

*poof* everyone is banned
 
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33. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:03 Verno
 
Flatline wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 15:02:
So if it was a bug, and the bug slipped through the cracks, who gets banned from the EA service then? EA themselves?

Post of the Day, well played sir
 
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32. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:02 Flatline
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:49:
Creston wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 10:56:

That would be far more believable had EA in fact not already done this exact thing, and had they not taken months to fix the issue even after the "media" excoriated them for it.

Creston

But, but, but Creston, that was a BUG! HONEST! You can't have an email unsubscribe system that isn't tied into your forum banning system! It's just not possible! You have to write a specific exclusion to prevent email unsubscribers from getting banned from the forums. It's complicated stuff! We thought we'd excluded everyone, but some of them got through! The tech team is working on quashing that bug as we speak!

So if it was a bug, and the bug slipped through the cracks, who gets banned from the EA service then? EA themselves?
 
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31. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:01 Creston
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:49:
Creston wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 10:56:

That would be far more believable had EA in fact not already done this exact thing, and had they not taken months to fix the issue even after the "media" excoriated them for it.

Creston

But, but, but Creston, that was a BUG! HONEST! You can't have an email unsubscribe system that isn't tied into your forum banning system! It's just not possible! You have to write a specific exclusion to prevent email unsubscribers from getting banned from the forums. It's complicated stuff! We thought we'd excluded everyone, but some of them got through! The tech team is working on quashing that bug as we speak!

Yeah. It only took them a year to "fix" it, and they "fixed" it by saying "Well, you can go into offline mode to access your single player games."

As far as I can tell, those who got banned STILL do not have access to their mp games. Two years down the road.

TRUST EA! TRUST EA! TRUST EA! They're really just good, misunderstood people! Rolleyes

Creston
 
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30. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 15:01 Verno
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:58:
Why would I blame Blue for poster's content? I get it, most of you think EA is satan incarnate as a company. It's old at this point, as much as my bitching about bitching is old.

No you don't get it, you're just continually ignoring whats said to you. EA isn't satan anymore than Activision is but they do plenty of dumb shit to get themselves into gamers bad graces and the news. Have a problem with it? It starts with them, not the users. No one is making you click on the comments here and read about it either.
 
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29. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 14:59 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:54:
I don't get what banning people on the forum has to do with banning people for not reporting bugs.

Because you're saying "oh, don't worry, it's just lawyers being lawyers. They'd never do something like that," when in fact they HAVE already abused their bullshit ToS.

Heck, the forum banning wasn't even a ToS thing. EA was very clear that this was an intended thing.

I updated my post after you replied. Their customer service people specifically say "as in our statutes per the Terms of Service."

EA tried to pretend it was a bug. Unless it was also a bug that the exact occurence happened to be mentioned in their ToS, I'd say that it's pretty easy to see through the bullshit, and realize that, yes, they actually DID indeed intend for people to lose access to all their games for completely bullshit arbitrary reasons.

Now they've come up with another ToS that threatens the same thing. And voila, queue the horde who says "Oh, that's just broad language. They'll NEVER do something like that!"

I can't wait for one of EA's defenders to get banned for something retarded and lose access to all their shit. The screams of anguish will be like an angelic choir licking my earlobes.

Creston
 
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28. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 14:58 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:56:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:32:
Thinking EA will actually ban people for not reporting bugs is pretty ridiculous to begin with but it wouldn't be BN without a daily bitch about EA thread.

Uh, it is pretty reasonable to think they might do something they put into an EULA and people have EULA issues with many other companies other than EA. Blue posts news, if you have a problem with the news then tell EA to stop making boneheaded decisions. Your bitching is just as much noise as anything else.

Why would I blame Blue for poster's content? I get it, most of you think EA is satan incarnate as a company. It's old at this point, as much as my bitching about bitching is old.
 
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27. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 14:56 Verno
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:32:
Thinking EA will actually ban people for not reporting bugs is pretty ridiculous to begin with but it wouldn't be BN without a daily bitch about EA thread.

Uh, it is pretty reasonable to think they might do something they put into an EULA and people have EULA issues with many other companies other than EA. Blue posts news, if you have a problem with the news then tell EA to stop making boneheaded decisions that get them in the news. As for repetitive bitching, we all do plenty, yourself included so glass houses and all that.
 
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26. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 14:54 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 14:39:
Beamer wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 13:35:
But EA didn't ban anyone, did they?

Yes, they did. They banned several people from their forum (undoubtedly for good cause), and in doing so caused these people to lose access to all/some (reports on that were sketchy) their games through Origin.

When the media (the MEDIA, of all things!) bitched at EA about it, they tried to play it off by saying "oh, that's actually just a bug, hehe, no foul play here!" even though their fucking EULA specifically stated that it would happen, for which people bitched at EA (and mongrels defended EA for it.)

It took EA MONTHS to fix this "bug."

It's lawyers being lawyers. Nothing more.

No, it is NOT just "lawyers being lawyers." Again, this has ALREADY FUCKING HAPPENED with EA. It baffles me how people keep putting their fingers in their ears, sing LALALALALAALLA really loudly, and pretend like there's nothing going on.

From RPS: A number of people had contacted us to say that their forum bans (both justified and mystifying) were locking them out of their online gaming, and that their attempts to find out why from EA’s customer support were met with silence or nonsense. Ignoring the question of the legality of preventing access to a purchased product (something I’m looking into), the confusion really lay in EA’s previous assurances that they would not be doing this after the “error” in March

The error they referred to was the EULA that said "If we ban you from the forum, you lose all your access to your games!" People cried out about it, EA did the 'tut tut, we'll never do that' routine, idiots defended EA and played the "Oh, you guys are always after poor, misunderstood EA" bullshit card, and then EA did that exact fucking thing.

But hey, keep saying that it's crazy, and that EA won't do that, even though, you know, they actually have a confirmed fucking history of doing it. Ostrich Policy works just fine for our politicians, no reason it can't work here either, right?

Creston

I don't get what banning people on the forum has to do with banning people for not reporting bugs.

Or, perhaps, I don't get how you're applying what I'm saying to this situation here.

EA banning people for forum posts: indicates EA has a shitty system with their accounts tied together in dumb ways
Companies now threatening in the EULA to ban for not reporting bugs: overzealous attorneys

Heck, the forum banning wasn't even a ToS thing. EA was very clear that this was an intended thing.

Like I'm saying, we are right to push back on this. But just understand where it comes from.
 
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25. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 14:49 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 10:56:

That would be far more believable had EA in fact not already done this exact thing, and had they not taken months to fix the issue even after the "media" excoriated them for it.

Creston

But, but, but Creston, that was a BUG! HONEST! You can't have an email unsubscribe system that isn't tied into your forum banning system! It's just not possible! You have to write a specific exclusion to prevent email unsubscribers from getting banned from the forums. It's complicated stuff! We thought we'd excluded everyone, but some of them got through! The tech team is working on quashing that bug as we speak!
 
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24. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 14:39 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 13:35:
But EA didn't ban anyone, did they?

Yes, they did. They banned several people from their forum (undoubtedly for good cause), and in doing so caused these people to lose access to all/some (reports on that were sketchy) their games through Origin.

When the media (the MEDIA, of all things!) bitched at EA about it, they tried to play it off by saying "oh, that's actually just a bug, hehe, no foul play here!" even though their fucking EULA specifically stated that it would happen, for which people bitched at EA (and mongrels defended EA for it.)

It took EA MONTHS to fix this "bug."

Edit : Actually, it took them over a YEAR.

It's lawyers being lawyers. Nothing more.

No, it is NOT just "lawyers being lawyers." Again, this has ALREADY FUCKING HAPPENED with EA. It baffles me how people keep putting their fingers in their ears, sing LALALALALAALLA really loudly, and pretend like there's nothing going on.

From RPS: A number of people had contacted us to say that their forum bans (both justified and mystifying) were locking them out of their online gaming, and that their attempts to find out why from EA’s customer support were met with silence or nonsense. Ignoring the question of the legality of preventing access to a purchased product (something I’m looking into), the confusion really lay in EA’s previous assurances that they would not be doing this after the “error” in March

The error they referred to was the EULA that said "If we ban you from the forum, you lose all your access to your games!" People cried out about it, EA did the 'tut tut, we'll never do that' routine, idiots defended EA and played the "Oh, you guys are always after poor, misunderstood EA" bullshit card, and then EA did that exact fucking thing.

But hey, keep saying that it's crazy, and that EA won't do that, even though, you know, they actually have a confirmed fucking history of doing it. Ostrich Policy works just fine for our politicians, no reason it can't work here either, right?

Final edit: In case you're still confused, and think that EA does this because it doesn't know what's in its ToS, here's a response from EA's customer support, to a guy whose account got permanently banned (including his games, and his BF3 characters)

"“This action was necessary due to the repeated nature of the offense on the account. We regret having to take this final step, but it is entirely necessary on behalf of protecting the Electronic Arts Online community. The violation has already been discussed above so further communication on this matter won’t be entertained. We thank you for your understanding on all the statutes within the Terms of Service, and they still contractually apply to you as per the original agreement, especially the sections regarding terminated members of the service.”

Creston

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 2013, 14:54.
 
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23. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 14:32 RollinThundr
 
Spektr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 13:57:
Jee getting banned from EA games for not reporting a bug.. it's so absurd that I shouldn't even comment it. I am merely stating the obvious that banning people for no real reason represents less sales and more piracy. And that it's nearly impossible to prove that a player didn't report a bug and even more so detect the players who don't report bugs...

Thinking EA will actually ban people for not reporting bugs is pretty ridiculous to begin with but it wouldn't be BN without a daily bitch about EA thread.
 
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22. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 14:11 Beamer
 
Spektr wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 13:57:
Jee getting banned from EA games for not reporting a bug.. it's so absurd that I shouldn't even comment it. I am merely stating the obvious that banning people for no real reason represents less sales and more piracy. And that it's nearly impossible to prove that a player didn't report a bug and even more so detect the players who don't report bugs...

It's nearly impossible, true. But imagine you're running the beta test of an RPG, and there's a glitch that gives people the power to kill other characters with a certain keystroke. You know one group discovered this and was running around doing it to other people for an hour. You ban all the people doing this, rightfully. Half of them complain, saying they were just in a party with people using the exploit, not using it themselves.

It's easy to tell them they are banned for not reporting those players. And no one should care - these people deserve to be banned, but you just extinguished the argument they'd repeatedly make.

I wish I had the link, but there's an Xbox help forum somewhere full of people claiming they were unfairly banned for hacking when they did no such thing. What's amazing is that half of them have avatars with unnatural hair color or skin color. Those are only possible via hacking. So even though it's obvious from their profile that they hacked, they repeatedly claim they didn't.
People that get caught hacking rarely go "ok, you got me," instead they deny as vehemently and ridiculously as you could imagine.



It doesn't excuse having language this strict in the ToS, but it's why this language shows up.
 
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21. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 13:57 Spektr
 
Jee getting banned from EA games for not reporting a bug.. it's so absurd that I shouldn't even comment it. I am merely stating the obvious that banning people for no real reason represents less sales and more piracy. And that it's nearly impossible to prove that a player didn't report a bug and even more so detect the players who don't report bugs...  
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20. Re: Crysis 3 Crisis Averted Jan 30, 2013, 13:36 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Jan 30, 2013, 13:33:
People who get worked up over EULAs need to calm the fuck down.

I disagree, I think getting "worked the fuck up" over these things is what gets them changed quickly. If you want sit around and be passive about it thats your right but I'll pipe up whenever I see obvious bullshit, particularly when its inserted into what could be a legally binding contract. My approach doesn't interfere with yours so the complaint makes no sense, quite the opposite you might even benefit from it.

And I agree - people need to say something about it.

It's just a difference between "this is stupid and we won't agree to it, so change it" and "oh my god they're coming for our children!!!"

There's understanding something and reasonably trying to change it, and there's panic.
 
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