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19. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 30, 2013, 00:18 Jerykk
 
Assuming console certification is just a much hassle as pc hardware combinations is folly to me. A developer would have a list of the criteria the console manufacturer is going to test against and their expectations for each point of contention. If a developer is having hassles getting certified it's likely because they're trying to slip sub-par work to the marketplace, not because this PS3 has a different sound chip than that PS3.

No, getting certified is a hassle because the publisher's cert group is extremely paranoid and will write up the most retarded and improbable bugs known to man, many of which have extremely low repro rates and require the tester to do things that no real player would ever do. Publishers, not wanting to risk failing certification, will demand that every cert bug be fixed. As the submission date draws near, the dev's producers have to tirelessly negotiate with the publisher to waive the dumbest bugs. Then the publishers have to do the same thing with MS or Sony.

Cert testing costs more than PC compatibility testing and the submission process itself is also very pricey.

While I agree with your final line in theory, the reality is EA wants to launch all platforms on the same day. I don't think they care -at all- to sell more PC units than any console, they just want to be able to offer the product to as many platforms as possible as quickly as possible. Quite frankly the PC market is not nearly as substantial as its proponents like to claim (and I do prefer gaming on my pc too), but the numbers don't lie, look at Dead Space 2's sales - 1.3 million on the 360, 1.23 million on PS3, and 260 000 on PC. source - http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=dead+space+2

You are aware that VGChartz is completely worthless as a source for sales figures, right? They pull numbers out of their ass and don't cite any verifiable sources for their figures. At best, they loosely base their figures on NPD charts, which don't include digital distribution or international sales.

If you want the developers to cater to the pc crowd, then the pc market need to generate 5 times more sales, or increase the price by 5 fold.

Nonsense. PC support amongst developers and publishers has increased significantly over the past few years. Genres or series that were previously console-exclusive are now showing up on PC. More and more ports are receiving PC-exclusive features (Hitman: Absolution, DX:HR, Far Cry 3, Just Cause 2, Dishonored, Skyrim, Saints Row 3, Red Faction Guerrilla, Borderlands 2, Max Payne 3, etc). If PC games sold as poorly as you seem to think they do, we wouldn't be seeing this trend. The lack of effort being put into DS3 goes against the trend and speaks more to EA's general incompetence than the health of PC gaming market.

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 2013, 00:24.
 
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18. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 17:22 panbient
 
Jerykk wrote on Jan 29, 2013, 12:31:
I hear this a lot but it's not really as bad as people seem to think. Firstly, compatibility testing is typically outsourced to professional testing groups. This is done a few times throughout development. It's not like the devs are constantly testing every possible hardware combination in existence.

Secondly, console games have to go through certification, which is just as much hassle as ensuring compatibility on a wide range of PC hardware.If EA wants Dead Space to sell more PC units, they need to put effort into the ports. It's that simple.

QA might not be 'that' bad but it's not 'that' simple either. Every build you send to a testing firm for compatibility testing costs both time and money. Deadlines for launch? Better hope that build is super solid.

Assuming console certification is just a much hassle as pc hardware combinations is folly to me. A developer would have a list of the criteria the console manufacturer is going to test against and their expectations for each point of contention. If a developer is having hassles getting certified it's likely because they're trying to slip sub-par work to the marketplace, not because this PS3 has a different sound chip than that PS3.

While I agree with your final line in theory, the reality is EA wants to launch all platforms on the same day. I don't think they care -at all- to sell more PC units than any console, they just want to be able to offer the product to as many platforms as possible as quickly as possible. Quite frankly the PC market is not nearly as substantial as its proponents like to claim (and I do prefer gaming on my pc too), but the numbers don't lie, look at Dead Space 2's sales - 1.3 million on the 360, 1.23 million on PS3, and 260 000 on PC. source - http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=dead+space+2


If you don't like it, Tumbler said it best - vote with your wallet.

@Verno - look at the numbers, a $20 increase on the title for a premium pc version with bells and whistles wouldn't amount to squat. If you want the developers to cater to the pc crowd, then the pc market need to generate 5 times more sales, or increase the price by 5 fold. Don't know about you, but I certainly would not pay $250 for a pc game just so I can get smoother mouse and keyboard support and higher rez textures.
 
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17. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 13:46 Verno
 
I tire of that excuse though. It's not charitable work, they're shipping a product for that market. Price it at what you need to make money and stop making excuses about the quality IMHO. I'd rather pay $80 for a well done PC port with exclusives and extras than $30 for a barebones title.  
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16. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 13:29 Tumbler
 
To demand or expect extra content or higher quality assets absolutely requires the pc market to generate greater revenue than the console market. That's ultimately what it boils down to.

This is probably reality. EA is trying to get this game shipped while spending as little money as possible. Testing things on the PC platform probably isn't the most effective way to make money. I would guess that the consoles will be the majority of sales so the pc gets bare bones support because it costs money.

Doesn't mean anyone on the pc has to like it but it also doesn't mean the devs/pubs care enough to spend that money. (if people complain) They'll start caring when they think that they will make less money if they do not provide better pc features. Clearly they don't think that is the case.

Vote with your wallet.
 
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15. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 12:31 Jerykk
 
The biggest hassle and setback with creating for the pc is the quality assurance. It's a WHOLE LOT easier to confirm operational stability and marketable quality on a closed console (where it can technically be done with just 3-4 machines) than it is for an open platform like the pc (where it HAS to be done on at least 3-4 different operating systems - twice for x32 and x64, and that's not even touching ALL the hardware possibilities).

I hear this a lot but it's not really as bad as people seem to think. Firstly, compatibility testing is typically outsourced to professional testing groups. This is done a few times throughout development. It's not like the devs are constantly testing every possible hardware combination in existence. Secondly, console games have to go through certification, which is just as much hassle as ensuring compatibility on a wide range of PC hardware.

To demand or expect extra content or higher quality assets absolutely requires the pc market to generate greater revenue than the console market. That's ultimately what it boils down to. How would it make any sense for the developer to funnel loads of money and resources into features only a small minority of paying customers will even notice let alone take full advantage of?

Except an increasing amount of PC ports are getting PC-exclusive features so... yeah. If you want to maximize profit, you need to deliver the best quality product you can. With the growth of digital distribution (which offers higher profit margins and potentially infinite shelf life), the PC gaming market has become a lot more profitable than it was five years ago. Hence the increase in the number of games supporting PC-exclusive features. If EA wants Dead Space to sell more PC units, they need to put effort into the ports. It's that simple.
 
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14. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 11:42 Creston
 
We should congratulate this guy for managing to come up with such absolutely staggering nonsense. Not everyone can just bullshit on the spot like that.

We seem a little bit discredited for the amount of effort that goes into it, quite honestly.

You mean the ZERO effort you're putting into it? Yeah, how come PC gamers don't appreciate that?

Creston
 
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13. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 10:26 Orogogus
 
gray wrote on Jan 29, 2013, 08:35:
..we're allowing you to control the game with a mouse and keyboard..

That's very kind, is the game also in black and white or have you authorized the use of color?

That seems taken out of context. He says it makes the game feel different, as something to be taken into consideration when porting it. It's a fairly common point for a lot of games that don't happen to be twitch shooters or RTS games. Third person shooters and flight games usually end up hobbling the mouse speed to preserve a game's feel, with inevitable outcry from the PC side.

Rebinding keys is pretty weak, but the first 2 games did let you rebind them; it was just kind of half-assed. Didn't recognize more than 3 buttons on a mouse, and there was a petition for a disabled gamer who needed to be able to map walking to the mouse. EA's guy is saying they deserve credit for responding to the petition, and getting jumped on for it. It's basically the same thing as what the Legend of Grimrock devs did when they got a similar request, but they probably wouldn't be hounded for mentioning it.
 
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12. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 08:55 Verno
 
Though I have to say it's quite sad that something like the ability to remap keyboard keys has become a contentious issue in game development. Fighting for credit for something that has/had been standard for decades is just WTF

I think (most) people respect the challenges of developing for the PC platform. Its just that like you said, we see devs touting things like keybindings as if they're doing you a huge favor.
 
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11. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 08:35 gray
 
..we're allowing you to control the game with a mouse and keyboard..

That's very kind, is the game also in black and white or have you authorized the use of color?
 
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10. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 07:01 panbient
 
DangerDog wrote on Jan 29, 2013, 03:48:
They develop these games using unreal engine on a PC, who are they kidding trying to make it seem like it's a monumental task to create a PC port of the game.

Go work a port project then tell me how simple it is to just convert a product.

Just because it's built on a pc doesn't mean it's inherently created for a pc release. It is NOT just a matter a flipping an option when creating a final build to fart out a pc version at the same time as a console version.

The biggest hassle and setback with creating for the pc is the quality assurance. It's a WHOLE LOT easier to confirm operational stability and marketable quality on a closed console (where it can technically be done with just 3-4 machines) than it is for an open platform like the pc (where it HAS to be done on at least 3-4 different operating systems - twice for x32 and x64, and that's not even touching ALL the hardware possibilities).

To demand or expect extra content or higher quality assets absolutely requires the pc market to generate greater revenue than the console market. That's ultimately what it boils down to. How would it make any sense for the developer to funnel loads of money and resources into features only a small minority of paying customers will even notice let alone take full advantage of?

Though I have to say it's quite sad that something like the ability to remap keyboard keys has become a contentious issue in game development. Fighting for credit for something that has/had been standard for decades is just WTF
 
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9. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 06:59 Overon
 
I'm trying to be a charitable as possible in reading this interview. But I think it would have been better for him, not to say anything at all.

Bottom line: I don't think he understands the PC gaming market's expectation, but the worst of it is, I don't think he really cares much. Maybe he will learn something from the non lunatic and rational comments, the few and far between, I hope.
 
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8. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 04:56 Kajetan
 
DangerDog wrote on Jan 29, 2013, 03:48:
... who are they kidding trying to make it seem like it's a monumental task to create a PC port of the game.
You. And me. And everyone elso. Including themselves, when they start to believe their own lies. Which happened at EA years ago.
 
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7. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 04:24 Jerykk
 
Orogogus wrote on Jan 29, 2013, 03:30:
It sounds weak, but on the other hand I feel the PC gamers' expectations are unrealistic. DirectX11 support would be nice, I guess, but a high resolution texture pack was simply not in the cards; Dead Space isn't Skyrim or Half Life 3. The first game ran up to 2048x1536, so it's not like it was locked at 720p. The "further graphical enhancements" Blue editorialized about last time usually translates as PhysX effects, which aren't super common. I don't really know what people are expecting from a game not in the AAA megablockbuster class.

Higher-res PC textures are growing increasingly common these days. Skyrim, Sleeping Dogs, Hitman: Absolution, Metro 2033, Max Payne 3, Bioshock: Infinite, Crysis 2, Crysis 3... if EA wants DS3 to sell better on PC, they need to put more effort into it (and give it the post-release support that was lacking with the first two games).
 
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6. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 03:48 DangerDog
 
They develop these games using unreal engine on a PC, who are they kidding trying to make it seem like it's a monumental task to create a PC port of the game.  
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5. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 03:30 Orogogus
 
It sounds weak, but on the other hand I feel the PC gamers' expectations are unrealistic. DirectX11 support would be nice, I guess, but a high resolution texture pack was simply not in the cards; Dead Space isn't Skyrim or Half Life 3. The first game ran up to 2048x1536, so it's not like it was locked at 720p. The "further graphical enhancements" Blue editorialized about last time usually translates as PhysX effects, which aren't super common. I don't really know what people are expecting from a game not in the AAA megablockbuster class.  
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4. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 02:05 Jerykk
 
Never really understood the hate for the DS1 port. Yes, running with V-Sync caused input lag issues but that's pretty much the case with any game. The game looked and ran fine and dandy with V-Sync disabled. If you want the tightest, most responsive input, you shouldn't be using V-Sync. In fact, you should have a 120 Hz monitor. With that, you don't have to worry about V-Sync (and thus input lag) or tearing. Best of both worlds.

That said, the executive producer's excuses are pretty terrible. "We want the game to be equal on all platforms!" isn't something to boast about when the PC is exponentially more powerful. It's like announcing that the newest Ferrari can only go 65 MPH because that's the official speed limit.
 
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3. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 00:58 mag
 
Orogogus wrote on Jan 29, 2013, 00:15:
Shacknews and Blues seem to want to editorialize DS3's PC port heavily for some reason. DS1 had a pretty glaring mouse control/vsync issue, but did anyone besides shihonage (edit: and Blue, maybe?) have a ton of issues with the DS2 port? Not every game gets a high resolution texture pack.

The DS1 port was so bad--AND NEVER FIXED--that I never even considered checking out DS2 or DS3.
 
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2. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 00:15 Orogogus
 
Shacknews and Blues seem to want to editorialize DS3's PC port heavily for some reason. DS1 had a pretty glaring mouse control/vsync issue, but did anyone besides shihonage (edit: and Blue, maybe?) have a ton of issues with the DS2 port? Not every game gets a high resolution texture pack.  
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1. Re: Evening Q&As Jan 29, 2013, 00:10 Cutter
 
Alternately titled...'How to lose sales and alienate potential customers.'
 
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James Woods: Oh that's fun. That sounds like you had a fun time. Where would I fit in with the fun time, huh? Where does James Woods fit into the fun?
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