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Morning Consolidation

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18. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 15:38 jdreyer
 
Cutter wrote on Jan 21, 2013, 12:39:
Had they dumped all that money wasted on Xbox into PC gaming consoles would be over by now. There's no need for consoles anymore.

Yeah, but 10 years ago PC gaming in the livingroom on a PC was not viable. Today it is. If MS started moving in that direction, they might make some headway.
 
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17. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 15:34 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Jan 21, 2013, 10:51:
Speedy CPU? An eight core 1.6 Ghz? We're calling that speedy? I call it fucking stupid. Few, if any game developers, will use all 8 cores (even on the PC we're just seeing games start to use 4), but the SLOOOOOOW clock speed is going to hamper this thing like nobody's business. Come on, Sony, MS, use a quad core 2.6 or 3.0 Ghz. Stop fucking putting all these shitty-ass components in your boxes...

Creston

First, I'd say that the GPU is usually the limiting factor in a game. CPUs have been long able to feed the GPU regardless of speed for many years now. I'd say this is even moreso the case in console gaming. The only games that really give CPUs a workout these days are ones with huge AI algorithms like Skyrim.

Second, keeping the MHz low will mean low heat output, quieter cooling, and longer life. Everyone is scared of repeating the RRoD debacle that MS suffered through.

Third, I'm sure this proc will have a burst mode that will overclock it to some higher MHz level like 2.4 or even 3.0. Since 1.6 is so low, I'm sure there's lots of overhead built in, and the system will ramp up accordingly. Intel has had a couple of generations of this now, and is getting very good at boosting the proc when it's needed.

Fourth, a lower default clock will suck less juice when using it for non-gaming purposes, like watching movies.
 
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16. Re: Morning Consolidation, ps3 Jan 21, 2013, 14:23 swedishfriend
 
So one processor with cpu/gpu combined and some additional "special" processor. Maybe a cell processor so they can emulate PS3 games? Without a Cell or some special made processor there will be no backwards compatibility for PS3 games which might be kinda important considering all the people who may be expecting their PSN bought games to work when they get the new machine.  
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15. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 13:42 Verno
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Jan 21, 2013, 12:48:
Sony's net income for last year was MINUS $5bn (it hasn't posted a profit since 2008) yet we're seriously expected to believe it will be able to buy Microsoft's Xbox brand? As long as Microsoft isn't losing money it will continue to maintain the Xbox brand as it has strong brand recognition and benefits other sectors. Microsoft had a net income of $17bn last year so it can afford to maintain a brand that doesn't earn anything, especially while Sony continues to haemorrhage money.

There's more to it than simply looking at a single line on a company wide income statement. Sony's entertainment division is actually quite profitable and needs to be restructured. Microsoft as a company is in the process of restructuring itself to do battle against companies like Google and Apple, it's going to need all of those billions to do it. A brand is only as good as a company can leverage it and so far the Xbox brand has not been a profitable one for the company nor is it tying well into their other core revenue streams. Maybe that will change in the future but it's just not closely tied to what is actually driving the company.

It's a classic flamebait article that bears no relation to reality. And Barnes & Noble as the other potential buyer? Seriously? Fucking fantasy land. Apple is the most likely suitor.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss an idea based on a preconceived notion. A company like Barnes and Noble badly needs to diversify their revenue, they need more access to growing digital markets and moves like that could let them close large brick and mortars which are whats killing them (other than Amazon). They would need a strong backer to make a play on it though. Apple has continually hedged on the gaming market at every opportunity, I don't see that as likely at all and it wouldn't play to their preferred customers either. Apple loves electronics with high profit margins and they prefer a tailored approach.
 
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14. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 12:50 Beamer
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Jan 21, 2013, 12:48:
Sony's net income for last year was MINUS $5bn (it hasn't posted a profit since 2008) yet we're seriously expected to believe it will be able to buy Microsoft's Xbox brand? As long as Microsoft isn't losing money it will continue to maintain the Xbox brand as it has strong brand recognition and benefits other sectors. Microsoft had a net income of $17bn last year so it can afford to maintain a brand that doesn't earn anything, especially while Sony continues to haemorrhage money.

It's a classic flamebait article that bears no relation to reality. And Barnes & Noble as the other potential buyer? Seriously? Fucking fantasy land. Apple is the most likely suitor.

Well, all of this posits that Microsoft will completely crash and burn over the next 3 years, worse than those 2.

Seems unlikely.
 
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13. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 theyarecomingforyou
 
Sony's net income for last year was MINUS $5bn (it hasn't posted a profit since 2008) yet we're seriously expected to believe it will be able to buy Microsoft's Xbox brand? As long as Microsoft isn't losing money it will continue to maintain the Xbox brand as it has strong brand recognition and benefits other sectors. Microsoft had a net income of $17bn last year so it can afford to maintain a brand that doesn't earn anything, especially while Sony continues to haemorrhage money.

It's a classic flamebait article that bears no relation to reality. And Barnes & Noble as the other potential buyer? Seriously? Fucking fantasy land. Apple is the most likely suitor.
 
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12. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 12:39 Cutter
 
Had they dumped all that money wasted on Xbox into PC gaming consoles would be over by now. There's no need for consoles anymore.
 
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11. Re: More Big Picture Details Jan 21, 2013, 11:59 HorrorScope
 
1.6 ghz proc still sounds awfully slow. However their VC seems stronger then the one rumored with the Xbox.

As for MS, I see Ballmer is on the Virge of buying the SacKings. They were quoted to be worth 325 million, he's paying $525 million for 65%. Sounds like another solid deal.
 
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10. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 11:52 Verno
 
Creston wrote on Jan 21, 2013, 10:51:
Speedy CPU? An eight core 1.6 Ghz? We're calling that speedy? I call it fucking stupid. Few, if any game developers, will use all 8 cores (even on the PC we're just seeing games start to use 4), but the SLOOOOOOW clock speed is going to hamper this thing like nobody's business. Come on, Sony, MS, use a quad core 2.6 or 3.0 Ghz. Stop fucking putting all these shitty-ass components in your boxes..

Errr you can't judge a CPU based on the clock speed alone. It matters but there are other considerations and for a console that's plenty depending on the architecture and power of the GPU. A 1.6ghz Sandy Bridge processor will wipe the floor with a 4.0ghz Netburst era processor in every measurable way. IPC related metrics are really what matters these days, aside from power restrictions. A 1.6ghz burstable multicore CPU is perfectly fine for a console, they run embedded operating systems that are very low on overhead.

What I am really interested in is a new controller design for the PS4. Dual shock is a touch too light and the triggers are too mushy. The tops of the analog sticks lack any contact points and hand sweat makes them harder to handle. The 360 controller has its own flaws, its notorious for floating dead zones and the dpad sucks ass without the $80 SKU, it's also a touch too meaty. Something just in between of both would be perfect. Oh and go with standard batteries this time please Sony.

This comment was edited on Jan 21, 2013, 12:01.
 
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9. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 11:44 Kajetan
 
Verno wrote on Jan 21, 2013, 08:57:
Microsoft’s Xbox brand will be “sold to someone like Sony”, failure is “inevitable”.

Interesting discussion. There has been talk of rising internal dissension related to non-core products costing the company too much money for awhile now. We're long past a decade of Microsoft in the gaming industry and billions of dollars later they're still facing the same entrenched competitors.
A few years ago, investors were furious about the entertainment division loosing lots of money. In response to this, MS closed Ensemble Studios and everything not related to the Zune and the console branch. They stopped loosing money after that, but made only small, very small profits compared to what MS earns with Office, Windows or even the server market.

So, is it possible the investors start nagging again? Absolutely! And this time, it may be finally the end of a not very successful long time experiment.
 
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8. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 11:39 Silicon Avatar
 
Barnes and Noble? Really?

Oh Forbes. Why are you even considered news?

 
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7. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 10:56 RenownWolf
 
From the looks of the specs PS4 coding will likely be similar to developing for a PC using opengl, as their current API is really similar to opengl as it is.

Xbox will naturally be more liken to directx (a subset no doubt, with some hardware specific addons).

So really it will be not far off making a game that supports Mac, Linux and Windows. Hopefully that is what will happen meaning it'll take less time for developers to get their games out and start learning to take full advantage of the system (with the hope of it leading back to PC aswell).

The memory part is here nor there, Sony has chosen faster ram, but less of it, while MS has gone with more but slower. It will really come down to transfer rates than the size of the ram. Console devs are already very good at streaming the data they need when they need it.

I remember learning about how they would position the data on their discs for the PSX to get the best loading times. While the bad games that didn't optimize it would have shitty load times.
 
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6. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 10:51 Creston
 
Other than his utterly insane fucking idea that Microsoft sells the Xbox brand to Sony (... what?) or to BARNES AND FUCKING NOBLE, who are so close to bankruptcy the court already has a room reserved for them, and who are approximately 500 times the entire value of their company short on the assets to even make an OFFER for the Xbox division), the article isn't that bad.

For the amount of the money and effort that MS pours into Xbox, and the amount of people that work for it, it produces startingly little revenue and (even worse) basically no profit until late late late in the console's life cycle. There might well be the idea within MS of "Why do we keep bothering with it?"

Then again, the Xbox is about the only idea Balmer ever had that's managed to stick around, unlike every other one of his plans, so I doubt they'll ever divest themselves of it while he's around. A new CEO might just shed the whole thing and focus on what's actually making money.


From the Sony secret sauce article: In addition to the DDR5 RAM and speedy CPU
Speedy CPU? An eight core 1.6 Ghz? We're calling that speedy? I call it fucking stupid. Few, if any game developers, will use all 8 cores (even on the PC we're just seeing games start to use 4), but the SLOOOOOOW clock speed is going to hamper this thing like nobody's business. Come on, Sony, MS, use a quad core 2.6 or 3.0 Ghz. Stop fucking putting all these shitty-ass components in your boxes...

Creston

This comment was edited on Jan 21, 2013, 10:58.
 
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5. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 09:34 Verno
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Jan 21, 2013, 09:15:
OK... as much as I hate Windows 8 and the Xbox... there is no way Microsoft is going to bail on their console line. It gives them too much visibility. When you can stream Netflix, or watch MLB or NHL games on it via subscription, etc., it's become a media device as well as a gaming one. They'll never walk away willingly.

Sure but its costing them a lot of money. To keep it up they need to keep investing every 5 years into R&D too, that's not counting what it will cost to keep up with their competitors on the software end of things. Microsoft isn't really a gaming company, the half dozen profitable quarters from the Xbox are a penny in the coffers. This guy is approaching it from a numbers perspective and he's right, the numbers don't make much sense. What he's saying isn't anything new though, they have been rumors of dissension in Microsoft about it for awhile now.

I don't think anyone could really afford to buy it though and I doubt Microsoft will get rid of its only successful marketing brand in over ten years.

As for the PS4, the specs sound good... but it's the interface that matters. How many developers have complained about the complete mind-screw that is coding for the PS3? Will that get fixed, or have Sony just added 2 more cores to the mess...?

The Cell architecture was a pain in the ass but this time around they chose more homogenous parts supposedly. I guess we'll see though.
 
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4. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 09:20 Beamer
 
While he can argue that the Xbox platform will fall apart, I see no reason to believe the Xbox brand will. Even if it just becomes something Microsoft uses for "fun" vs "productivity," it's something they value too much to get rid of.

Also, this guy isn't an analyst. He's a blogger. Let's remember Forbes lets nearly anyone write for them. Remember the guy that wrote the "If I were a poor black child" blog?
Although this guy has an impressive background:
"At Pepsi, Adam led the initiative to start Pizza Hut Home Delivery. He opened over 200 stores in under 2 years and also led the global expansion M&A initiative acquiring several hundred additional sites. He also played a lead role in the Kentucky Fried Chicken acquisition.

Adam has helped redefine the strategy of companies such as General Dynamics, Deutsche Telecom, Air Canada, Honeywell, BancOne, Subaru of America, Safeway, Kraft, 3M, and P&G. He received his MBA from Harvard Business School with Distinction."
 
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3. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 09:15 Eirikrautha
 
OK... as much as I hate Windows 8 and the Xbox... there is no way Microsoft is going to bail on their console line. It gives them too much visibility. When you can stream Netflix, or watch MLB or NHL games on it via subscription, etc., it's become a media device as well as a gaming one. They'll never walk away willingly.

As for the PS4, the specs sound good... but it's the interface that matters. How many developers have complained about the complete mind-screw that is coding for the PS3? Will that get fixed, or have Sony just added 2 more cores to the mess...?
 
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2. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 09:06 Ozmodan
 
Have to love Analysts with blinders on. Maybe the writer should read some about Sony's financial problems, don't think they will be buying anything like the xbox in the near future.

As to the playstation 4, of all the stupid designs, they did not put enough memory in the box. Typical Sony, use a fast processor, but ignore giving enough ram to make it useful. At least the xbox has enough ram.
 
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1. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 21, 2013, 08:57 Verno
 
Microsoft’s Xbox brand will be “sold to someone like Sony”, failure is “inevitable”.

Interesting discussion. There has been talk of rising internal dissension related to non-core products costing the company too much money for awhile now. We're long past a decade of Microsoft in the gaming industry and billions of dollars later they're still facing the same entrenched competitors.

On the other hand, Microsoft finally has a successful brand that (most) consumers don't despise, something they haven't managed in eons. Of course they had to bludgeon it into the market with a hammer made of billions but its there now. The question is does it make enough money to justify its existence to the rest of the company? It's a pittance compared to their core businesses which are losing out to Apple, Google and other online services companies.

It might be a moot point, I'm not sure Sony could even afford it right now. It would be the ideal solution to me as a gamer though, I'm tired of trying to keep up with multiple platforms and decided already that I'm only getting one console this gen.

The online division is a foregone conclusion though, Bing and etc need to die and stop sucking money out of the rest of the company.

This comment was edited on Jan 21, 2013, 09:04.
 
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