Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Edge: Valve, Mojang "Greatest Developers"

Edge Online teases how issue 250 of Edge Magazine lists the 50 greatest videogame developers in their estimation. They don't offer the list online (you have to pay for this sort of opinion), but notch spills the beans that Valve is number one as part of his incredulity that Mojang is number two, tweeting: "#2? Really? One released game and almost no proven track record. Great honor, of course, but no. ;)"

View
64 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 ] Older >

64. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 17, 2013, 09:34 Verno
 
Sepharo wrote on Jan 16, 2013, 20:20:
It sounds to me like you want Minecraft to be more "gamey" than it is. The things you talk about being rough like combat, experience, adventure (nether quest), and NPCs are not core in my opinion. I feel like Notch added that stuff because of complaints that there was "nothing to do" and I've really not explored them in a significant way.

They're part of the game just like any other sandbox feature. In fact many of the features I want expanded are core sandbox features. It's not just me personally either, many of the games fans either want these things or the dev team themselves have talked about it. I'm not really going to bring Notch into it because he's not much of a factor anymore, he's moved onto other projects.

Minecraft lacks a lot boilerplate gaminess but makes up for it with a variety of game world mechanics not previously seen in all one sandbox title. That's why I've got to roll my eyes when people talk about missing features and a lack of things to do.

Fair enough but I've got to roll my eyes when people handwave away all of the games shortcomings with the sandbox excuse. It doesn't fly, even the sandbox itself has many threadbare aspects and things that need improvement. They've got a team working on the game now, there are resources to put towards this kind of stuff and it won't hurt The Sandbox in any way if you're already happy with it. As I said before I feel like the game despite all of the additions is still a loosely held collection of half finished features and ideas. It works sometimes and I can enjoy myself but other times I end up frustrated because so many of the games mechanics are begging for expansion and improvement.

BRO HUGS
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Far Cry 4, Prison Architect, DriveClub
Watching: Tusk, The Equalizer, The Homesman
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
63. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 16, 2013, 20:20 Sepharo
 
It sounds to me like you want Minecraft to be more "gamey" than it is. The things you talk about being rough like combat, experience, adventure (nether quest), and NPCs are not core in my opinion. I feel like Notch added that stuff because of complaints that there was "nothing to do" and I've really not explored them in a significant way.

Verno wrote on Jan 16, 2013, 09:33:
It's too subjective to really debate with someone, is Garrys Mod a complete game? It's sold as one now but the user largely crafts the experience itself. Minecraft is similar.
I do consider Garry's Mod a complete "game". It does what it purports do and it does it well. If it doesn't have portals yet I don't consider that a missing feature. Minecraft lacks a lot boilerplate gaminess but makes up for it with a variety of game world mechanics not previously seen in all one sandbox title. That's why I've got to roll my eyes when people talk about missing features and a lack of things to do.

Verno wrote on Jan 16, 2013, 09:33:
Anyways I'm not trying to change your mind, you wanted me to explain my thoughts and so I did.
I'm glad you did, I just didn't want the verdict left at digital lego with half-finished features without an opposing view.
And again, I'm not taking this as a "diss", I had my time with Minecraft years ago now, I just think your assesment is wrong... Somebody is wrong on the internet! XD
 
Avatar 17249
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
62. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 16, 2013, 09:33 Verno
 
But that's not this game, Minecraft, which is a complete game.

Missed this one. I don't really consider Minecraft a complete game. I don't even consider the sandbox aspects of Minecraft truly "complete". It has a 1.0 version but that's just a number and not really indicative of how complete most aspects of it are. It's too subjective to really debate with someone, is Garrys Mod a complete game? It's sold as one now but the user largely crafts the experience itself. Minecraft is similar. Some people are going to think it's a game based solely on the amount of time they spend or etc.

To me too many aspects of the game are rudimentary or obviously intended to be expanded at a future point for me to consider it a complete experience. It doesn't mean someone can't enjoy it though, I certainly did for awhile. I just know that I would have had more fun if the rougher parts of the game were more fleshed out. Just using combat as an example, why have combat if its going to be a boring, rote experience with no depth that doesn't challenge the player? I'm not saying it needs to be a CRPG but there's a lot of mechanics in the game that could do with some attention before more features are added.

I don't regret the time or money I spent on Minecraft and I'm not criticizing the value proposition, I just wish they would make their mind on what kind of product it's going to be instead of going in so many different directions at once which just leads to half baked mechanics and features. I realize Minecrafts roots but it's a different beast now, with Notch no longer really working on it and a full team of others doing so the expectations change. Anyways I'm not trying to change your mind, you wanted me to explain my thoughts and so I did.

This comment was edited on Jan 16, 2013, 09:45.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Far Cry 4, Prison Architect, DriveClub
Watching: Tusk, The Equalizer, The Homesman
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
61. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 16, 2013, 07:24 Verno
 
It's kind of refreshing being in a game where you don't know everything, you start out stranded in a world that appears blank or lacking things to do that then actually has a ridiculous amount of possibilities (and mechanics).

It's faux difficulty and I don't really consider going to a wiki to being part of a community. Either way, it could be a simple option to toggle on or off like many other games.

The game doesn't need to be a CRPG. It's a sandbox made by one guy in java that kept getting added to. It would be cool to see someone take the genre if that's what it is and make it Skyrim production quality and I'm we've sure seen plenty of clones but we haven't seen that yet. But that's not this game, Minecraft, which is a complete game.

Skyrim? Yeah that's what I said. Haha, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. You might want to tell Mojang that though because they keep putting RPG elements into their sandbox game. Adding NPCs, an experience bar, weapons and armor, talking about adventure features, etc. It's pretty obvious Minecraft is not intended to be solely a sandbox game alone. Besides some of the things I (and that they have) mentioned are sandbox features which would benefit everyone.

Oh and derp.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Far Cry 4, Prison Architect, DriveClub
Watching: Tusk, The Equalizer, The Homesman
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
60. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 16, 2013, 00:54 Sepharo
 
Yeah I don't get it, sorry bro. Calling it digital lego is not a diss on Minecraft or something. The creative building element of it will be the most recognized and likened to a real world component (lego). I'm talking more meta and you're being specific.
I don't think you're trying to "diss" Minecraft either and I'm not trying to defend it from that angle. I just think your assesment/summary is lacking/wrong; it's just not essentially lego anymore. But I think that's a pretty popular opinion and there's where I'm coming from in my distinction.

I didn't even mention a bug but...
Ahh I thought you had with the mention of the patchnotes and wiki lists but I see now that could all be about features. I was lazily responding sentence by sentence without quoting.

wishlist

I just don't see your wishlist as half finished ideas.

biome transitions -this is less abrupt than it was but still not great
new combat
something after diamonds other than crazy machines -derp
loot variety -there is dungeon type loot variation
graphics -derp
tutorials
-I don't think going to a wiki or watching youtube videos is so bad, it's part of enjoying the game as a community which is that magic that drives purchases for games like TF2 and WoW, HL mods... They don't have tutorials either for the most part. Also some consider it more fun to discover the recipes and concepts yourself. It's kind of refreshing being in a game where you don't know everything, you start out stranded in a world that appears blank or lacking things to do that then actually has a ridiculous amount of possibilities (and mechanics).

The game doesn't need to be a CRPG. It's a sandbox made by one guy in java that kept getting added to. It would be cool to see someone take the genre if that's what it is and make it Skyrim production quality and I'm we've sure seen plenty of clones but we haven't seen that yet. But that's not this game, Minecraft, which is a complete game.
 
Avatar 17249
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
59. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 15, 2013, 23:39 Verno
 
Sepharo wrote on Jan 15, 2013, 23:05:
No but calling it essentially Lego ignores the absurd variety of mechanics in the game like mining, monsters, experience, lava, water, smelting, farming, crafting, pets, dye, electricity, circuits, pistons, day/night, villagers, trade... that's about half. One mechanic is stacking bricks.

Yeah I don't get it, sorry bro. Calling it digital lego is not a diss on Minecraft or something. The creative building element of it will be the most recognized and likened to a real world component (lego). I'm talking more meta and you're being specific.

You're complaining about bugs which is fair but that's not the same as half finished features.

I didn't even mention a bug but yes, fixing up bugs with existing features/mechanics is kind of an important thing. I'll try to be more clear, I think many of the features in the game are not in a finished state and the games ongoing evolution bears that out. I've noticed Notch (now Jeb/Mojang) tend to release things before fully fleshing them out.

I'd like to see existing features and mechanics expanded. More ore variety, more uses for the ore, more biome variety and actual biome transitions instead of the jarring swap between them. Expand the combat system so that it can be taken more seriously and give the player something to do other than building crazy machines once they've mined diamond. The dungeons could have loot worth visiting them for and not all use the same generation routine. Does the game still need the programmer graphics? Sure I'm using my own texture set but come on, they talked about a graphics engine redo awhile ago, did that ever happen? Some sort of incredibly basic tutorial wouldn't be bad either, you basically have to point newcomers to the wiki or hold their hand. Speaking of tutorials, while it's fun crafting components by experimentation, a recipe guide in game wouldn't be the end of the world. They could make him an NPC you need to find, something to do! You seem to think the AI is fine but I found it totally deficient which ruins any challenge to an experienced player. Food could provide different buffs and status effects. Experience could be used for something other than enchanting. There's plenty more but that's all I have from the top of my head.

Minecraft as a sandbox building experience is fine but I'm looking for more gamey aspects to it so there's a reason to play when you've exhausted building skyforts and subways. I love new stuff but there's a lot they can do with the existing frameworks they've made. Look at the stuff going on in Starbound or Cubeworld as a good example.

I guess maybe I'm wording it wrong, its like Minecraft is a game of many loosely held mechanics and I'd like to see more expansion and interaction between them instead of just constantly adding more thin layers.

This comment was edited on Jan 15, 2013, 23:47.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Far Cry 4, Prison Architect, DriveClub
Watching: Tusk, The Equalizer, The Homesman
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
58. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 15, 2013, 23:05 Sepharo
 
Verno wrote on Jan 15, 2013, 20:02:
Sepharo wrote on Jan 15, 2013, 14:00:
This gets thrown around way too often... One aspect of Minecraft is digital lego, it's not essentially that.

Yeah it is. Minecraft isn't really much of a "game" per se, it's more about what you make of the experience. There are very few goals in the game and the overall structure and design is for the player to create content. I liken it to Lego because it has that same sort of appeal, I don't mean it's literally lego because "blocks" or something.

No but calling it essentially Lego ignores the absurd variety of mechanics in the game like mining, monsters, experience, lava, water, smelting, farming, crafting, pets, dye, electricity, circuits, pistons, day/night, villagers, trade... that's about half. One mechanic is stacking bricks. Here comes the part about Mindstorm
Verno wrote:
Sepharo wrote:
Also this thing about half finished ideas.. which ones are half finished?
Like half of the games features? Look at the patchnotes sometime, the game is frankenstein. Even something as simple as the AI is so rudimentary that you can't really enjoy the combat. They talked about expanding the combat system over a year ago but we haven't really seen any of that. More biome variety and actual biome transitions. Shit the wiki used to have a pages long list of features, bugs and talked about things that weren't in the game, I stopped checking it though.

You're complaining about bugs which is fair but that's not the same as half finished features. The AI isn't much different from MMO mechanics, they're either passive or aggresive and if they see you they make a beeline but avoiding obvious obstacles like lava. With a developer as open as Notch and now Mojang you hear about features and things they'd like to do all the time. Geeking out on the minutiae on the wiki is fun but I don't consider that stuff half finished. There's a very vocal Minecraft community who I'm sure, like the WoW community, just bitch up a storm about the game they devote half their days to

I guess I'm just being pedantic about Lego and half-finished but I feel like I read that a lot and disagree with it totally.
 
Avatar 17249
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
57. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 15, 2013, 20:02 Verno
 
Sepharo wrote on Jan 15, 2013, 14:00:
This gets thrown around way too often... One aspect of Minecraft is digital lego, it's not essentially that.

Yeah it is. Minecraft isn't really much of a "game" per se, it's more about what you make of the experience. There are very few goals in the game and the overall structure and design is for the player to create content. I liken it to Lego because it has that same sort of appeal, I don't mean it's literally lego because "blocks" or something.

Also this thing about half finished ideas.. which ones are half finished?

Like half of the games features? Look at the patchnotes sometime, the game is frankenstein. Even something as simple as the AI is so rudimentary that you can't really enjoy the combat. They talked about expanding the combat system over a year ago but we haven't really seen any of that. More biome variety and actual biome transitions. Shit the wiki used to have a pages long list of features, bugs and talked about things that weren't in the game, I stopped checking it though.

I don't dislike Minecraft, far from it, I'm usually the one defending it from people who say it's a waste of time. I just think it could be a lot more if they would approach it from a quality over quantity standpoint on new features and stop relying on the community to come up with their features.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Far Cry 4, Prison Architect, DriveClub
Watching: Tusk, The Equalizer, The Homesman
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
56. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 15, 2013, 16:42 Dev
 
Sepharo wrote on Jan 15, 2013, 14:00:
Also this thing about half finished ideas.. which ones are half finished?
Last I heard they still hadn't implemented the promised full mod support. Or the adventure stuff.
I don't keep up with minecraft much anymore. I bought it and played it a while back, and moved on. So those are just off the top of my head. I actually spent more time with Terraria.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
55. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 15, 2013, 14:00 Sepharo
 
Verno wrote on Jan 15, 2013, 11:48:
Spektr wrote on Jan 15, 2013, 08:11:
Fibrocyte wrote on Jan 14, 2013, 18:44:
Mojang even being mentioned is a joke.

Why? I don't think we have seen the end of what Notch achieved with Minecraft. This game was developed by one single person and is followed by fans of all ages. From eight to forty. No other developer can brag about that.

I don't know, I think the mass appeal is interesting but it's essentially digit[url=][/url]al lego so it's not hard to understand. If you look at everything Notch has done, it's been fairly derivative and he seems to fall apart when it comes to adding original design to the product. Minecraft is the perfect example of that, it's a series of half finished ideas and clumsily executed designs.

So while I enjoyed Minecraft for what it was, it's not exactly the kind of design I want others to necessarily aspire to.

This gets thrown around way too often... One aspect of Minecraft
is digital lego, it's not essentially that.
Also this thing about half finished ideas.. which ones are half finished?
 
Avatar 17249
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
54. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 15, 2013, 11:48 Verno
 
Spektr wrote on Jan 15, 2013, 08:11:
Fibrocyte wrote on Jan 14, 2013, 18:44:
Mojang even being mentioned is a joke.

Why? I don't think we have seen the end of what Notch achieved with Minecraft. This game was developed by one single person and is followed by fans of all ages. From eight to forty. No other developer can brag about that.

I don't know, I think the mass appeal is interesting but it's essentially digital lego so it's not hard to understand. If you look at everything Notch has done, it's been fairly derivative and he seems to fall apart when it comes to adding original design to the product. Minecraft is the perfect example of that, it's a series of half finished ideas and clumsily executed designs.

So while I enjoyed Minecraft for what it was, it's not exactly the kind of design I want others to necessarily aspire to.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Far Cry 4, Prison Architect, DriveClub
Watching: Tusk, The Equalizer, The Homesman
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
53. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 15, 2013, 08:11 Spektr
 
Fibrocyte wrote on Jan 14, 2013, 18:44:
Mojang even being mentioned is a joke.

Why? I don't think we have seen the end of what Notch achieved with Minecraft. This game was developed by one single person and is followed by fans of all ages. From eight to forty. No other developer can brag about that.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
52. Re: More Big Picture Details Jan 14, 2013, 22:00 HorrorScope
 
I would also but Bethesda very high or at the top. To me they are so far ahead in their genre, that it looks seemingly impossible for anyone to catch them any time soon.  
Avatar 17232
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
51. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 14, 2013, 21:53 Dev
 
Yosemite Sam wrote on Jan 14, 2013, 14:55:
Valve IMO well deserves the number one spot, nobody in the business stands behind thier games like Valve does.
That depends on the game. L4D1 certainly wasn't a good example. All the broken promises valve made about content additions.

It depends more on if the valve devs continue to be interested and having fun in keeping a game going. Its obvious they ARE with tf2.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
50. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 14, 2013, 20:57 Cyanotetyphas
 
Platinum is getting credit for being the made up of the dev Clover which was killed by Capcom. Console only, makes wild Japanese games. It is kind of weird to put in a dev that just put in a two year gap since its last game at number 4 so, I think its safe to say this is just a "favorite" developers list.

Missing Obsidian, maybe From Software at spot 10. One of my personal favorites Arc Systems not included in top 10 either haha.

 
Avatar 49609
 
Synthetic Error - Entertainment bloggin http://syntheticerror.wordpress.com/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
49. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 14, 2013, 19:08 Warskull
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 14, 2013, 14:08:
Prez wrote on Jan 14, 2013, 14:05:
I had to google "Platinum Games" since I had no idea what games they made. Now that I did I have even less of a clue why they were even included in the list at all, much less in the #4 spot.

Likewise. But I do know IGN slaughtered Anarchy Reigns, their one 2012 title.

Anarchy Reigns is disappointing. The single player has been pretty bad so far. I am hoping the multiplayer is better when I get into it.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
48. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 14, 2013, 18:46 jdreyer
 
Prez wrote on Jan 14, 2013, 17:54:
Valve should definitely be mentioned for their contribution to gaming. Quite of few of you guys seem to forget Valve's other accomplishments both gaming and technical.

I'm not forgetting Valve's other (best) achievements, but when I see a list comprised of the "Greatest Developers" that says to me it is a list based on the games by said developers exclusively; maybe I am looking at it too narrowly but when I see "developer" I think "games", not technical achievements or digital distribution platforms.

I suppose that Valve should get credit for Big Picture mode. That was developed in 2012. Not sure it vaults them into the #1 slot, but it was a nice innovation.
 
Avatar 22024
 
"Microsoft is the absent minded parent of PC gaming" - Verno
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
47. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 14, 2013, 18:44 Fibrocyte
 
Mojang even being mentioned is a joke.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
46. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 14, 2013, 18:18 Yosemite Sam
 
The Half Elf wrote on Jan 14, 2013, 17:48:

You mean the teleport bug they fixed when they released the free DLC a few weeks ago? Also it seems quite common for PS3's to lock up on any number of games due to long gaming sessions.

You mean the teleport patch that didnt fix the teleport bug? and the free DLC that was actually an unfinished part of the game that was axed in order to make thier release date?

My PS3 never locks up due to the lenght of time I play, but it does lockup on a couple of games that were shit port jobs. I just recently did a big time run on MGS4 playing 8-10 hour long stretches at a time, game never died on me once... it has nothing to do with the PS3 and everything to do with shitty game code.
 
Avatar 21539
 
CIV4 MOD http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326525
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
45. Re: Edge: Valve, Mojang Jan 14, 2013, 17:54 Prez
 
Valve should definitely be mentioned for their contribution to gaming. Quite of few of you guys seem to forget Valve's other accomplishments both gaming and technical.

I'm not forgetting Valve's other (best) achievements, but when I see a list comprised of the "Greatest Developers" that says to me it is a list based on the games by said developers exclusively; maybe I am looking at it too narrowly but when I see "developer" I think "games", not technical achievements or digital distribution platforms.
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
64 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo