22 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 22. |
Re: More Big Picture Details |
Jan 12, 2013, 14:14 |
Beamer |
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HorrorScope wrote on Jan 12, 2013, 12:32:
Beamer wrote on Jan 12, 2013, 01:05:
Actually:
1) EA doesn't break out revenue by platform
2A) Activision does. For fiscal 2011: PC: 8% of revenue. PS3: 20% of revenue. 360: 24% of revenue. Wii: 7% of revenue. Handheld: 3% of revenue. Online subscriptions: 29% of revenue. Distribution: 9% of revenue.
So, for Activision, the PC was 8% of total revenue. 8%. 8 percent.
2B) PC was up for Activision in 2011. Why? They tell you: Skylanders - Spyro's Adventures. This is what sells on PCs, not Call of Duty.
3) Take Two also breaks out out. Revenue by platform: Console: 85.1%, PC: 10.6%, Handheld: 4.3%
Simply put, they are better off putting their capital and resources into developing a PS3 and 360 game than a PC game. The PC is not a very profitable platform. It tends to be used almost exclusively by hardcore gamers these days, and hardcore gamers are not easy to please. They're discriminating, they fall into niches, and as a whole they're better served by small indies that can cater to them and find 100,000 as a great success than by a major publisher.
EA does to and they are usually very close between PC vs Xbox vs PS3, with growth showing more strongly on the PC end.
The last quarter they reported this:
Net Rev:
XBox 204 mil down 4%
Ps3 150 mil down 11%
PC 214 mil up 20%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now just think if the PC had a good handful of sports games and a few others that are console exclusive?
Go here http://investor.ea.com/results.cfm and then click "Press Releases".
ALSO
ALSO
ALSO
Activisions Net Rev through 3rd qtr YTD Report:
Pc 727 million
Ps3 617 million
360 705 million
Subscriptions 701 million (Guess what platform gets the majority of this?)
So what's this about "actually?" or the PC being only 8%? It can be argues it's the same size as the Ps3 and 360 combined. However I will surrender that COD will have a large say in this, but it won't get close to making the PC only 8% for 2012, not close.
You're right, it is in that Press Release. I didn't see it in their 10-K, and still don't.
Those Activision numbers came from the 10-K. Don't count subscriptions, because they also state 90% come from World of Warcraft. Not really going to throw that in, because it's a different consumer.
You're also right, the PC sales in 2012 are up WAY up over 2011 for Activision. Any guess why? Any guess which game came out for Activision on the PC in 2012 that has sold a bucketload despite being called "trash" and basically considered the worst game ever on this board? A game that's sold over 10 million copies, accounting for the vast bulk of that $727 million?
Any guess?
Any company whose business is propped up by essentially one product may not be in good shape. But it shows you how valuable Blizzard is. $701 million in subscriptions, ~$500 million in Diablo 3...
Though I'm discounting Skylanders. They spell out Skylanders and Skylanders toys as the cause of the huge jump for the PC before they mention Diablo 3, so I'm really not giving enough credit to a casual children's title (by the awesome Toys for Bob!) |
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| 21. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 12, 2013, 14:05 |
Beamer |
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Shineyguy wrote on Jan 12, 2013, 02:20:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 15:00:
Shineyguy wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 14:56:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:32:
Valve is one company. Their revenue is... for one company.
If three companies competed equally in that space it would be billions / 3.
You get that, right?
Also, integrated graphics are still way below what the PS3 and Xbox can do, and yes, the PC is unpopular. Does that mean it doesn't generate funds? Of course not. But you're so quick to say that the flaw of consoles is the platform and that by making PC games they'd solve it. This ignores that a huge chunk of games are ON the PC now, anyway. It ignores that the problem may be the content, not the platform. And it ignores that the public overwhelmingly wants something they don't need to tinker with, hence Steambox.
I don't think you know just how underpowered the GPU in the current consoles are currently. Intel's HD4000 is just as powerful if not more so than the GPU in the current consoles.
HD4000 isn't giving graphics performance equal to consoles. Here are some benchmarks.
It's STILL behind current consoles. And new consoles are, what, 12-24 months out?
You can't quote PC benchmarks in comparison to consoles; the games aren't the same even though they may "look" the same. In terms of raw power, the HD 4000 approaches that of the 360 and PS3.
No, it doesn't. And what matters is how they play the same games, even though the HD4000 is typically doing it at a reduced resolution. |
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| 20. |
Re: More Big Picture Details |
Jan 12, 2013, 12:32 |
HorrorScope |
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Beamer wrote on Jan 12, 2013, 01:05:
Actually:
1) EA doesn't break out revenue by platform
2A) Activision does. For fiscal 2011: PC: 8% of revenue. PS3: 20% of revenue. 360: 24% of revenue. Wii: 7% of revenue. Handheld: 3% of revenue. Online subscriptions: 29% of revenue. Distribution: 9% of revenue.
So, for Activision, the PC was 8% of total revenue. 8%. 8 percent.
2B) PC was up for Activision in 2011. Why? They tell you: Skylanders - Spyro's Adventures. This is what sells on PCs, not Call of Duty.
3) Take Two also breaks out out. Revenue by platform: Console: 85.1%, PC: 10.6%, Handheld: 4.3%
Simply put, they are better off putting their capital and resources into developing a PS3 and 360 game than a PC game. The PC is not a very profitable platform. It tends to be used almost exclusively by hardcore gamers these days, and hardcore gamers are not easy to please. They're discriminating, they fall into niches, and as a whole they're better served by small indies that can cater to them and find 100,000 as a great success than by a major publisher.
EA does to and they are usually very close between PC vs Xbox vs PS3, with growth showing more strongly on the PC end.
The last quarter they reported this:
Net Rev:
XBox 204 mil down 4%
Ps3 150 mil down 11%
PC 214 mil up 20%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now just think if the PC had a good handful of sports games and a few others that are console exclusive?
Go here http://investor.ea.com/results.cfm and then click "Press Releases".
ALSO
ALSO
ALSO
Activisions Net Rev through 3rd qtr YTD Report:
Pc 727 million
Ps3 617 million
360 705 million
Subscriptions 701 million (Guess what platform gets the majority of this?)
So what's this about "actually?" or the PC being only 8%? It can be argues it's the same size as the Ps3 and 360 combined. However I will surrender that COD will have a large say in this, but it won't get close to making the PC only 8% for 2012, not close.
This comment was edited on Jan 12, 2013, 12:50. |
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| 19. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 12, 2013, 02:20 |
Shineyguy |
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Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 15:00:
Shineyguy wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 14:56:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:32:
Valve is one company. Their revenue is... for one company.
If three companies competed equally in that space it would be billions / 3.
You get that, right?
Also, integrated graphics are still way below what the PS3 and Xbox can do, and yes, the PC is unpopular. Does that mean it doesn't generate funds? Of course not. But you're so quick to say that the flaw of consoles is the platform and that by making PC games they'd solve it. This ignores that a huge chunk of games are ON the PC now, anyway. It ignores that the problem may be the content, not the platform. And it ignores that the public overwhelmingly wants something they don't need to tinker with, hence Steambox.
I don't think you know just how underpowered the GPU in the current consoles are currently. Intel's HD4000 is just as powerful if not more so than the GPU in the current consoles.
HD4000 isn't giving graphics performance equal to consoles. Here are some benchmarks.
It's STILL behind current consoles. And new consoles are, what, 12-24 months out?
You can't quote PC benchmarks in comparison to consoles; the games aren't the same even though they may "look" the same. In terms of raw power, the HD 4000 approaches that of the 360 and PS3. |
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| 18. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 12, 2013, 01:05 |
Beamer |
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ASeven wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 22:34:
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 15:54:
ASeven wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:21:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
How would PC development would help?
Steam billions of dollars should be all the answer you need about this. PC games can and often do make the difference in publisher's fiscal quarters.
How do you figure this? At least when it comes to AAA titles (i.e. the big publisher driven ones), when PC sales are disclosed, they're always well below console sales. Obviously they're high enough for them to keep doing PC versions but a game that sells a million units between console and PC usually seems barely able to crack 150,000 on the PC platform. Is that trend changing as far as you're able to tell?
Given the very limited scope that NPD uses, I'm still very much in the "they're not useless but certainly not nearly as representative of industry health as they'd like to claim" camp.
Well, reading EA's fiscal papers, or Activision's, or Take-2s, you can see that the PC brings in as much and often more than the Xbox or the PS3. Of course it won't bring in more than the consoles since that's a slanted comparison, a single platform sales against multiple platforms. However when it comes to single platform sales the PC often is head to head with the best sales numbers of the console platforms.
Actually:
1) EA doesn't break out revenue by platform
2A) Activision does. For fiscal 2011: PC: 8% of revenue. PS3: 20% of revenue. 360: 24% of revenue. Wii: 7% of revenue. Handheld: 3% of revenue. Online subscriptions: 29% of revenue. Distribution: 9% of revenue.
So, for Activision, the PC was 8% of total revenue. 8%. 8 percent.
2B) PC was up for Activision in 2011. Why? They tell you: Skylanders - Spyro's Adventures. This is what sells on PCs, not Call of Duty.
3) Take Two also breaks out out. Revenue by platform: Console: 85.1%, PC: 10.6%, Handheld: 4.3%
Simply put, they are better off putting their capital and resources into developing a PS3 and 360 game than a PC game. The PC is not a very profitable platform. It tends to be used almost exclusively by hardcore gamers these days, and hardcore gamers are not easy to please. They're discriminating, they fall into niches, and as a whole they're better served by small indies that can cater to them and find 100,000 as a great success than by a major publisher. |
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| 17. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 12, 2013, 00:56 |
Beamer |
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ASeven wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 22:36:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:32:
Valve is one company. Their revenue is... for one company.
If three companies competed equally in that space it would be billions / 3.
You get that, right?
I do, do you? Billions, even if divided by many competitors, is still billions, is still a market big enough to create a revenue of billions.
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:32:
Also, integrated graphics are still way below what the PS3 and Xbox can do, and yes, the PC is unpopular. Does that mean it doesn't generate funds? Of course not. But you're so quick to say that the flaw of consoles is the platform and that by making PC games they'd solve it. This ignores that a huge chunk of games are ON the PC now, anyway. It ignores that the problem may be the content, not the platform. And it ignores that the public overwhelmingly wants something they don't need to tinker with, hence Steambox.
I still don't know where you got where I said the problem was the platform. The problem is the shit that publishers throw at us, that's the main problem.
I'll give you that I misread it, because the common assumption people throw out is "THE MONEY IS ON THE PC, CONSOLES ARE DEAD!" And, in my next post, I'll show you why that's false.
But yes, the problem is the product, not the platform. The PC isn't nearly as valuable a platform as the PS3 and the Playstation. Again, going to respond to your other post. |
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| 16. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 22:36 |
ASeven |
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Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:32:
Valve is one company. Their revenue is... for one company.
If three companies competed equally in that space it would be billions / 3.
You get that, right?
I do, do you? Billions, even if divided by many competitors, is still billions, is still a market big enough to create a revenue of billions.
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:32:
Also, integrated graphics are still way below what the PS3 and Xbox can do, and yes, the PC is unpopular. Does that mean it doesn't generate funds? Of course not. But you're so quick to say that the flaw of consoles is the platform and that by making PC games they'd solve it. This ignores that a huge chunk of games are ON the PC now, anyway. It ignores that the problem may be the content, not the platform. And it ignores that the public overwhelmingly wants something they don't need to tinker with, hence Steambox.
I still don't know where you got where I said the problem was the platform. The problem is the shit that publishers throw at us, that's the main problem.
This comment was edited on Jan 11, 2013, 22:43. |
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| 15. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 22:34 |
ASeven |
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Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 15:54:
ASeven wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:21:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
How would PC development would help?
Steam billions of dollars should be all the answer you need about this. PC games can and often do make the difference in publisher's fiscal quarters.
How do you figure this? At least when it comes to AAA titles (i.e. the big publisher driven ones), when PC sales are disclosed, they're always well below console sales. Obviously they're high enough for them to keep doing PC versions but a game that sells a million units between console and PC usually seems barely able to crack 150,000 on the PC platform. Is that trend changing as far as you're able to tell?
Given the very limited scope that NPD uses, I'm still very much in the "they're not useless but certainly not nearly as representative of industry health as they'd like to claim" camp.
Well, reading EA's fiscal papers, or Activision's, or Take-2s, you can see that the PC brings in as much and often more than the Xbox or the PS3. Of course it won't bring in more than the consoles since that's a slanted comparison, a single platform sales against multiple platforms. However when it comes to single platform sales the PC often is head to head with the best sales numbers of the console platforms. |
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| 14. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 16:05 |
Beamer |
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Verno wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 15:20:
Shineyguy wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 14:56:
I don't think you know just how underpowered the GPU in the current consoles are currently. Intel's HD4000 is just as powerful if not more so than the GPU in the current consoles.
You're probably thinking of Broadwell and yes it is a huge step up for Intel and could finally mean the end of shitty IGP performance. It's not out yet though.
Yeah, we'll get there, but we've got a ways. |
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| 13. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 15:54 |
Parallax Abstraction |
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ASeven wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:21:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
How would PC development would help?
Steam billions of dollars should be all the answer you need about this. PC games can and often do make the difference in publisher's fiscal quarters.
How do you figure this? At least when it comes to AAA titles (i.e. the big publisher driven ones), when PC sales are disclosed, they're always well below console sales. Obviously they're high enough for them to keep doing PC versions but a game that sells a million units between console and PC usually seems barely able to crack 150,000 on the PC platform. Is that trend changing as far as you're able to tell?
Given the very limited scope that NPD uses, I'm still very much in the "they're not useless but certainly not nearly as representative of industry health as they'd like to claim" camp. |
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| 12. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 15:20 |
Verno |
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Shineyguy wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 14:56:
I don't think you know just how underpowered the GPU in the current consoles are currently. Intel's HD4000 is just as powerful if not more so than the GPU in the current consoles.
You're probably thinking of Broadwell and yes it is a huge step up for Intel and could finally mean the end of shitty IGP performance. It's not out yet though. |
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion |
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| 11. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 15:00 |
Beamer |
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Shineyguy wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 14:56:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:32:
Valve is one company. Their revenue is... for one company.
If three companies competed equally in that space it would be billions / 3.
You get that, right?
Also, integrated graphics are still way below what the PS3 and Xbox can do, and yes, the PC is unpopular. Does that mean it doesn't generate funds? Of course not. But you're so quick to say that the flaw of consoles is the platform and that by making PC games they'd solve it. This ignores that a huge chunk of games are ON the PC now, anyway. It ignores that the problem may be the content, not the platform. And it ignores that the public overwhelmingly wants something they don't need to tinker with, hence Steambox.
I don't think you know just how underpowered the GPU in the current consoles are currently. Intel's HD4000 is just as powerful if not more so than the GPU in the current consoles.
HD4000 isn't giving graphics performance equal to consoles. Here are some benchmarks.
It's STILL behind current consoles. And new consoles are, what, 12-24 months out? |
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| 10. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 14:56 |
Shineyguy |
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Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 13:32:
Valve is one company. Their revenue is... for one company.
If three companies competed equally in that space it would be billions / 3.
You get that, right?
Also, integrated graphics are still way below what the PS3 and Xbox can do, and yes, the PC is unpopular. Does that mean it doesn't generate funds? Of course not. But you're so quick to say that the flaw of consoles is the platform and that by making PC games they'd solve it. This ignores that a huge chunk of games are ON the PC now, anyway. It ignores that the problem may be the content, not the platform. And it ignores that the public overwhelmingly wants something they don't need to tinker with, hence Steambox.
I don't think you know just how underpowered the GPU in the current consoles are currently. Intel's HD4000 is just as powerful if not more so than the GPU in the current consoles. |
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| 9. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 13:32 |
Beamer |
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Valve is one company. Their revenue is... for one company.
If three companies competed equally in that space it would be billions / 3.
You get that, right?
Also, integrated graphics are still way below what the PS3 and Xbox can do, and yes, the PC is unpopular. Does that mean it doesn't generate funds? Of course not. But you're so quick to say that the flaw of consoles is the platform and that by making PC games they'd solve it. This ignores that a huge chunk of games are ON the PC now, anyway. It ignores that the problem may be the content, not the platform. And it ignores that the public overwhelmingly wants something they don't need to tinker with, hence Steambox. |
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| 8. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 13:29 |
Beamer |
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eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:49:
We are normal. Everyone else is not normal 
You forget as long as we are there, someone is going to cater to our needs in form of games. Sure maybe not everyone, but as long as we have kickstarter I am sure there will never be a time where we don't get to play the games we actually want to play. ON PC 
I agree. But that doesn't mean that the people buying less console games would be buying more had they simply been PC games. |
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| 7. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 13:21 |
ASeven |
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Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
How would PC development would help?
Steam billions of dollars should be all the answer you need about this. PC games can and often do make the difference in publisher's fiscal quarters.
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
Do you think the problem is the platform and not the content?
Where did I said that? However the fact is there's more mainstream stuff coming out for consoles and mainstream stuff on the PC is slowly getting eclipsed by indies and sales for mainstream games in all platforms is declining fast due to poor quality, terrible customer treatment from the publishers, increasing retail prices of games.
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
Do you think that PCs capable of running games as well as consoles outnumber consoles?
Yes. 7 years old hardware on consoles. If you asked this a couple years ago my answer would be no but now with integrated graphics becoming more power and PC technology evolving while console hardware remaining static I can safely say there's as many PCs capable of running console games as consoles. If they are being used to game, however, is a different matter.
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
Why do you think the PC would be a draw when even Valve seems to be trying to make the PC more console-like?
Again, Valve billions answers that question. The PC is a draw, period. It's not the same draw as a console but is a draw that attracts enough people that developing games in it can be very, very, very profitable.
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
Do you look at crashing PC sales, going down much faster than console sales, and think that's something other than an issue with the platform yet look at console declines and put the blame squarely on them?
PCs are open, built by dozens of manufacturers and come in all shapes and sizes and prices. Consoles come in 1 size, 1 price. Go throw a strawman somewhere else.
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:27:
I'll never understand how so many people think PC gaming is what the masses want. It isn't. It's what we want, but we're people that wrote bat files to get things to work. We're a different breed. We're not normal.
Again, Valve billions. If PC was as unpopular as you wish it was Valve would be a very poor company by now. Fact is, there's more than enough PC gamers out there to make a difference in publisher's fiscal numbers, and they often do. Just because some people say PC gamers are a small or irrelevant group doesn't make it so no matter how many times they repeat that.
And yes, mainstream crash is coming and now even Gamasutra keep reporting that something bad is coming fast, all the signs are now as clear as ever. WiiU underselling below the lowest expectations? Yeah nice sign of a healthy industry, not. And publishers only have themselves to blame for what is coming, fast. |
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| 6. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 12:49 |
eRe4s3r |
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We are normal. Everyone else is not normal
You forget as long as we are there, someone is going to cater to our needs in form of games. Sure maybe not everyone, but as long as we have kickstarter I am sure there will never be a time where we don't get to play the games we actually want to play. ON PC |
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| 5. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 12:27 |
Beamer |
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ASeven wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:17:
According to this report, WiiU sales are also way below expectations, along with sales of the games for it.
As I kept saying, the new consoles won't attract people as much as older generations did. WiiU is proving my point, now let's wait for the new xbox and PS and see if the trend continues.
Either way, console gaming sales crashed in 2012 and don't seem to slow down the crash anytime soon. Publishers, in their misguided vision of supporting consoles and ditching the PC, are about to rue that decision.
How would PC development would help?
Do you think the problem is the platform and not the content?
Do you think that PCs capable of running games as well as consoles outnumber consoles?
Why do you think the PC would be a draw when even Valve seems to be trying to make the PC more console-like?
Do you look at crashing PC sales, going down much faster than console sales, and think that's something other than an issue with the platform yet look at console declines and put the blame squarely on them?
I'll never understand how so many people think PC gaming is what the masses want. It isn't. It's what we want, but we're people that wrote bat files to get things to work. We're a different breed. We're not normal. |
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| 4. |
Re: NPD 2012 Results |
Jan 11, 2013, 12:17 |
ASeven |
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According to this report, WiiU sales are also way below expectations, along with sales of the games for it.
As I kept saying, the new consoles won't attract people as much as older generations did. WiiU is proving my point, now let's wait for the new xbox and PS and see if the trend continues.
Either way, console gaming sales crashed in 2012 and don't seem to slow down the crash anytime soon. Publishers, in their misguided vision of supporting consoles and ditching the PC, are about to rue that decision. |
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| 3. |
Re: More Big Picture Details |
Jan 11, 2013, 10:00 |
HorrorScope |
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| TV's are down to, perhaps pads are taking them over to? PC household product, sales figures will vary yoy, not going anywhere soon. |
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