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Op Ed

The Atlantic - How the Video-Game Industry Already Lost Out in the Gun-Control Debate.
As it happens, that's just what happened to games (and popular media more generally) in the NRA's good guy with a gun response to the Newtown shooting. Guns aren't a factor in gun violence for the NRA—rather, games, media, and law enforcement failures must take the blame. Once the terms of the debate are set like this (and set they very much were thanks to the over-the-top bravado in this press conference) then it's very hard to extract oneself from the debate without shifting the frame, without changing the terms of the debate.

I certainly believe that the White House would like nothing more than to see an end to mass gun murders in America's elementary schools. But the fact remains that gun violence takes place every day, all across this country, at a rate of dozens of deaths a day, and as the leading cause of death among African-American youth. But when the vice president establishes a task force on gun control and violence that includes the media industries that the NRA has once again chosen as their patsies after a particularly heinous and public example of gun violence, all it can do is shift attention away from guns.

IGN - Let's Talk About Violent Video Games.
Distinctions between games for adults and those for kids are fairly clear these days, thanks to the Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB). Formed in 1994, the ESRB rates all video games as a guide for parents similar to the way movies are rated by the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA). Games are rated ranging from E for Everyone and T for Teen to M for Mature, 17+.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding that games are only for children. This needs to change for the 'violence in games' dialogue to advance.

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101 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 5.
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21. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:21 Beamer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:16:
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:12:
Well, we shouldn't much care what the NRA has to say about protecting us from an oppressive, tyrannical, authoritarian government when their primary solution right now is putting armed government employees around all of our children all day long.

Regardless, the founding fathers weren't always correct.

Also regardless, at this point I'm not sure the path we're heading down of school shootings every damn week is really any worse than our government getting more oppressive.

Lastly, no one rational is saying "TAKE ALL THE GUNS!" much like no one rational is saying "IF I DON'T KEEP MY BILLION BULLET MAGAZINE THEN OBOOZO WILL BECOME POL POT OVER THE NEXT 4 YEARS!"

No one rational...

You shouldn't care what the NRA has to say anyway or blame them for a few mentally unstable screwjobs going on a spree. Yet that's what the left does, blame the guns themselves, the NRA, video games, etc rather than the person doing the shooting. It's devoid of logic.

I didn't say that was his plan, all I said was the reason the 2nd amendment is there. Why do Liberals hate the constitution and bill of rights so much?

Every week huh? Hyperbole much?

Not by much. We had 7 school shootings in 2012. We had one YESTERDAY! We're pretty close to one a month at this point, with the frequency increasing.

And yes, we should blame the people. But in most cases they're dead, along with a pool of other people. I'm not quite certain what blaming them will do for us. You love your fucking "personal responsibility" soapbox, but let's hold Adam Whateverhisnamewas from Newtown personally responsible. Should we hang his corpse? Maybe his mother did a bad job with him and we should punish her! Wait, she's dead, too...

We seem to have trouble holding these people personally responsible. We can blame them, but that doesn't seem to do much to stop this. We can, you know, diagnose them as nuts and lock them up, but how many misdiagnoses would we have?

Shut up about the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I'm 99% certain that, in the past, we've proven you know nothing about them. Not 100%, but if I look through your history there are probably some pretty gaping misunderstandings out there. Quite certain you've never studied any Conlaw...
 
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20. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:20 RollinThundr
 
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:14 I can see both the forest and the trees quite clearly, thanks.

You, on the other hand, seem to be living in a fantasy world. [/quote:


Yeah I'm sure people in Germany said the same thing as they were turning their guns over.
 
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19. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:16 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:12:
Well, we shouldn't much care what the NRA has to say about protecting us from an oppressive, tyrannical, authoritarian government when their primary solution right now is putting armed government employees around all of our children all day long.

Regardless, the founding fathers weren't always correct.

Also regardless, at this point I'm not sure the path we're heading down of school shootings every damn week is really any worse than our government getting more oppressive.

Lastly, no one rational is saying "TAKE ALL THE GUNS!" much like no one rational is saying "IF I DON'T KEEP MY BILLION BULLET MAGAZINE THEN OBOOZO WILL BECOME POL POT OVER THE NEXT 4 YEARS!"

No one rational...

You shouldn't care what the NRA has to say anyway or blame them for a few mentally unstable screwjobs going on a spree. Yet that's what the left does, blame the guns themselves, the NRA, video games, etc rather than the person doing the shooting. It's devoid of logic.

I didn't say that was his plan, all I said was the reason the 2nd amendment is there. Why do Liberals hate the constitution and bill of rights so much?

Every week huh? Hyperbole much?
 
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18. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:16 Beamer
 
Also, I really don't fully get what people think pistols and semi-automatic guns will do against the government.

We have semi-automatic guns. OBOOOOOOOOOOZER has tactical drones, attack choppers, tanks, gatling guns, rail guns, nuclear subs, JSFs, etc.

Are we going to take tanks out with lots and lots of 9MM fire?
 
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17. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:14 sauron
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:08:
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:03:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:52:
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:21:
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 09:58:

In both the UK and Australia, strict gun controls were put in place following early occurrences of mass killings involving assault weapons. As a result, similar events have not occurred since. The US has not done the same, and so these horrible crimes keep happening.

Not true. In the UK mass killings happened again afterwords, and they also disarmed the police. And while the guy wandered around shooting people, it took them several hours to finally subdue him. Australia wasn't so much a part of the studies I did a few years back, but I do remember a heavy correlation after the loss of firearms a serious rise in violent crime and violent B&E a trend which is still rising.

Then again, anyone who uses the catch phrase "assault weapon" is probably just following the narrative. Being realistic, the media have more to blame than guns(an inanimate object) or the NRA. The media are willing to run with it, give it publicly, splash the person all over the place and give them recognition and infamy(in the other persons mind fame). Besides, if you're going to blame the NRA for anything, then you'd best blame the ACLU for anything free speech related.

And you might as well just piss all over that founding document while you're at it.

The liberal media is as usual looking for a scapegoat, guns are to blame being inanimate objects that require a person to actually pull the trigger, video games are to blame, everyone is to blame except the mentally unstable people that are actually doing these shootings.

The 2nd amendment is there for a reason. Looking back, who has committed murder in the largest degree? Dictators Adolf Hilter, Mao Tze Tung, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc.

Time and time again it has been a corrupt government who is responsible for the mass murder of their own people under the deceptive guise of “gun control,” all of which the said dictators implemented.

Keep in mind these people promised their citizens protection and freedom upon the forfeiture of their guns.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Pol Pot, who created in Cambodia one of the 20th century’s most brutal and radical regimes, was responsible for killing one million of his own ‘educated,’ yet unarmed citizens

If you think this couldn't happen in the US you're an idiot, especially at the rate Obozo is going with all his executive orders when he doesn't get what he wants.



Mass exterminations in totalitarian regimes have nothing at all to do with arms control in the US. What on earth are you thinking?

You're missing the forest from the trees, a corrupt political faction in the US could push to become a totalitarian state, the only way they would succeed at that is to first strip US citizens of their guns. That's why the 2nd amendment is in place, to prevent that from ever happening.

I can see both the forest and the trees quite clearly, thanks.

You, on the other hand, seem to be living in a fantasy world.
 
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16. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:12 Beamer
 
Well, we shouldn't much care what the NRA has to say about protecting us from an oppressive, tyrannical, authoritarian government when their primary solution right now is putting armed government employees around all of our children all day long.

Regardless, the founding fathers weren't always correct.

Also regardless, at this point I'm not sure the path we're heading down of school shootings every damn week is really any worse than our government getting more oppressive.

Lastly, no one rational is saying "TAKE ALL THE GUNS!" much like no one rational is saying "IF I DON'T KEEP MY BILLION BULLET MAGAZINE THEN OBOOZO WILL BECOME POL POT OVER THE NEXT 4 YEARS!"

No one rational...
 
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15. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:08 RollinThundr
 
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 12:03:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:52:
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:21:
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 09:58:

In both the UK and Australia, strict gun controls were put in place following early occurrences of mass killings involving assault weapons. As a result, similar events have not occurred since. The US has not done the same, and so these horrible crimes keep happening.

Not true. In the UK mass killings happened again afterwords, and they also disarmed the police. And while the guy wandered around shooting people, it took them several hours to finally subdue him. Australia wasn't so much a part of the studies I did a few years back, but I do remember a heavy correlation after the loss of firearms a serious rise in violent crime and violent B&E a trend which is still rising.

Then again, anyone who uses the catch phrase "assault weapon" is probably just following the narrative. Being realistic, the media have more to blame than guns(an inanimate object) or the NRA. The media are willing to run with it, give it publicly, splash the person all over the place and give them recognition and infamy(in the other persons mind fame). Besides, if you're going to blame the NRA for anything, then you'd best blame the ACLU for anything free speech related.

And you might as well just piss all over that founding document while you're at it.

The liberal media is as usual looking for a scapegoat, guns are to blame being inanimate objects that require a person to actually pull the trigger, video games are to blame, everyone is to blame except the mentally unstable people that are actually doing these shootings.

The 2nd amendment is there for a reason. Looking back, who has committed murder in the largest degree? Dictators Adolf Hilter, Mao Tze Tung, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc.

Time and time again it has been a corrupt government who is responsible for the mass murder of their own people under the deceptive guise of “gun control,” all of which the said dictators implemented.

Keep in mind these people promised their citizens protection and freedom upon the forfeiture of their guns.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Pol Pot, who created in Cambodia one of the 20th century’s most brutal and radical regimes, was responsible for killing one million of his own ‘educated,’ yet unarmed citizens

If you think this couldn't happen in the US you're an idiot, especially at the rate Obozo is going with all his executive orders when he doesn't get what he wants.



Mass exterminations in totalitarian regimes have nothing at all to do with arms control in the US. What on earth are you thinking?

You're missing the forest from the trees, a corrupt political faction in the US could push to become a totalitarian state, the only way they would succeed at that is to first strip US citizens of their guns. That's why the 2nd amendment is in place, to prevent that from ever happening.
 
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14. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:07 eunichron
 
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:40:
And no, I'm not just following the narrative and am well aware of the specifications of the weapons in question.

If you weren't just following the narrative you would understand that there is no technical definition of "assault weapon". "Assault weapon" is a legal term, and it can be defined in any way that lawyers and legislators want it to be defined as. A single shot break action 20 gauge shotgun is currently not considered an "assault weapon", it's probably considered one of the least lethal weapon designs by the Brady Campaign and other gun control advocacy groups. All it would take is some punk shooting his teacher in the face with one, suddenly that single shot break action 20 gauge can be designated an "assault weapon" and banned.

And the founding document has nothing to do with it. Last refuge of the NRA apologist.

It has everything to do with it. The Second Amendment wasn't written for sporting, it wasn't written for hunting, it wasn't written with muskets in mind, and "militia" does not refer to the National Guard. When the Second Amendment was drafted the founding fathers had just finished a war against a government they perceived as oppressive, tyrannical, and authoritarian. The Second Amendment was written with oppressive, tyrannical, and authoritarian governments in mind, it was written to give the people a means by which to defend themselves against an out of control government. I'm not saying our government is at that point, and I'm not advocating revolution, but to suggest that the Second Amendment means anything other than that is ignorant.
 
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13. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 12:03 sauron
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:52:
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:21:
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 09:58:

In both the UK and Australia, strict gun controls were put in place following early occurrences of mass killings involving assault weapons. As a result, similar events have not occurred since. The US has not done the same, and so these horrible crimes keep happening.

Not true. In the UK mass killings happened again afterwords, and they also disarmed the police. And while the guy wandered around shooting people, it took them several hours to finally subdue him. Australia wasn't so much a part of the studies I did a few years back, but I do remember a heavy correlation after the loss of firearms a serious rise in violent crime and violent B&E a trend which is still rising.

Then again, anyone who uses the catch phrase "assault weapon" is probably just following the narrative. Being realistic, the media have more to blame than guns(an inanimate object) or the NRA. The media are willing to run with it, give it publicly, splash the person all over the place and give them recognition and infamy(in the other persons mind fame). Besides, if you're going to blame the NRA for anything, then you'd best blame the ACLU for anything free speech related.

And you might as well just piss all over that founding document while you're at it.

The liberal media is as usual looking for a scapegoat, guns are to blame being inanimate objects that require a person to actually pull the trigger, video games are to blame, everyone is to blame except the mentally unstable people that are actually doing these shootings.

The 2nd amendment is there for a reason. Looking back, who has committed murder in the largest degree? Dictators Adolf Hilter, Mao Tze Tung, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc.

Time and time again it has been a corrupt government who is responsible for the mass murder of their own people under the deceptive guise of “gun control,” all of which the said dictators implemented.

Keep in mind these people promised their citizens protection and freedom upon the forfeiture of their guns.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Pol Pot, who created in Cambodia one of the 20th century’s most brutal and radical regimes, was responsible for killing one million of his own ‘educated,’ yet unarmed citizens

If you think this couldn't happen in the US you're an idiot, especially at the rate Obozo is going with all his executive orders when he doesn't get what he wants.



Mass exterminations in totalitarian regimes have nothing at all to do with arms control in the US. What on earth are you thinking?
 
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Kittens!
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12. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 11:59 Beamer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:52:
, especially at the rate Obozo is going with all his executive orders when he doesn't get what he wants.

You realize this makes anything you say sound really, really dumb, right?

I'll never get why people say such dumb things. Is it that hard to use a proper name? Anytime someone does this, in any context, it basically invalidates anything they say by making everyone around them realize their IQ is below 75.

Just some constructive criticism for you. And anyone that says "M$" or "Bobby KoDICK" or whatever else they think is witty but makes them sound about 8.
 
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11. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 11:52 RollinThundr
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:21:
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 09:58:

In both the UK and Australia, strict gun controls were put in place following early occurrences of mass killings involving assault weapons. As a result, similar events have not occurred since. The US has not done the same, and so these horrible crimes keep happening.

Not true. In the UK mass killings happened again afterwords, and they also disarmed the police. And while the guy wandered around shooting people, it took them several hours to finally subdue him. Australia wasn't so much a part of the studies I did a few years back, but I do remember a heavy correlation after the loss of firearms a serious rise in violent crime and violent B&E a trend which is still rising.

Then again, anyone who uses the catch phrase "assault weapon" is probably just following the narrative. Being realistic, the media have more to blame than guns(an inanimate object) or the NRA. The media are willing to run with it, give it publicly, splash the person all over the place and give them recognition and infamy(in the other persons mind fame). Besides, if you're going to blame the NRA for anything, then you'd best blame the ACLU for anything free speech related.

And you might as well just piss all over that founding document while you're at it.

The liberal media is as usual looking for a scapegoat, guns are to blame being inanimate objects that require a person to actually pull the trigger, video games are to blame, everyone is to blame except the mentally unstable people that are actually doing these shootings.

The 2nd amendment is there for a reason. Looking back, who has committed murder in the largest degree? Dictators Adolf Hilter, Mao Tze Tung, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc.

Time and time again it has been a corrupt government who is responsible for the mass murder of their own people under the deceptive guise of “gun control,” all of which the said dictators implemented.

Keep in mind these people promised their citizens protection and freedom upon the forfeiture of their guns.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Pol Pot, who created in Cambodia one of the 20th century’s most brutal and radical regimes, was responsible for killing one million of his own ‘educated,’ yet unarmed citizens

If you think this couldn't happen in the US you're an idiot, especially at the rate Obozo is going with all his executive orders when he doesn't get what he wants.
 
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10. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 11:40 sauron
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 11:21:
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 09:58:

In both the UK and Australia, strict gun controls were put in place following early occurrences of mass killings involving assault weapons. As a result, similar events have not occurred since. The US has not done the same, and so these horrible crimes keep happening.

Not true. In the UK mass killings happened again afterwords, and they also disarmed the police...

Then again, anyone who uses the catch phrase "assault weapon" is probably just following the narrative.

And you might as well just piss all over that founding document while you're at it.

The regular police in the UK (the world's first police force, founded by Sir Robert Peel in 1829) have never been armed, by design. Their only armed units are anti-terrorist and SWAT teams. Have you ever read any history? It appears not.

And no, I'm not just following the narrative and am well aware of the specifications of the weapons in question.

And the founding document has nothing to do with it. Last refuge of the NRA apologist.
 
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9. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 11:26 eunichron
 
As a firearm enthusiast and video game enthusiast, fuck the NRA. I have never given them a donation, and as long as they are just another wing of the Republican party I never will. The "debate" about gun control in the US is absolutely ridiculous on both sides, and is absolutely devoid of any logic or reason.

The best form of gun control is education, and no one seems to care about educating themselves anymore.
 
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8. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 11:21 Mashiki Amiketo
 
sauron wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 09:58:

In both the UK and Australia, strict gun controls were put in place following early occurrences of mass killings involving assault weapons. As a result, similar events have not occurred since. The US has not done the same, and so these horrible crimes keep happening.

Not true. In the UK mass killings happened again afterwords, and they also disarmed the police. And while the guy wandered around shooting people, it took them several hours to finally subdue him. Australia wasn't so much a part of the studies I did a few years back, but I do remember a heavy correlation after the loss of firearms a serious rise in violent crime and violent B&E a trend which is still rising.

Then again, anyone who uses the catch phrase "assault weapon" is probably just following the narrative. Being realistic, the media have more to blame than guns(an inanimate object) or the NRA. The media are willing to run with it, give it publicly, splash the person all over the place and give them recognition and infamy(in the other persons mind fame). Besides, if you're going to blame the NRA for anything, then you'd best blame the ACLU for anything free speech related.

And you might as well just piss all over that founding document while you're at it.
 
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there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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7. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 11:11 sauron
 
Creston wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 10:59:
InBlack wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 10:51:
What about swords? If I was to wear an unusually long sword on me, would that be in my constitutional rights in the US?

I think it has the same rules as a firearm. So if you're in a state with a concealed carry requirement, then no, you wouldn't be allowed to wear it.

But I think here in Oklahoma you probably can.

Creston

Here in Mordor you definitely can. The more the better, really. And spiky armor too.

This is why Mrs. Sauron has a chainmail cover on the couch.
 
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6. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 10:59 Creston
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 10:51:
What about swords? If I was to wear an unusually long sword on me, would that be in my constitutional rights in the US?

I think it has the same rules as a firearm. So if you're in a state with a concealed carry requirement, then no, you wouldn't be allowed to wear it.

But I think here in Oklahoma you probably can.

Creston
 
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5. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 10:58 nin
 
Creston wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 10:45:
As Penny Arcade said so eloquently long ago: Guns don't kill people. Kids who play videogames kill people.


Fuck the NRA.

Creston


http://youtu.be/KsN0FCXw914

http://youtu.be/mmtX6Tj74oU


 
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4. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 10:51 InBlack
 
What about swords? If I was to wear an unusually long sword on me, would that be in my constitutional rights in the US?  
Avatar 46994
 
I have a nifty blue line!
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3. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 10:45 Creston
 
As Penny Arcade said so eloquently long ago: Guns don't kill people. Kids who play videogames kill people.


Fuck the NRA.

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
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2. Re: Op Ed Jan 11, 2013, 09:58 sauron
 
I don't think that violent games are largely responsible for these horrible events, but I do think they are a negative influence. Violent TV and movies as well. But these influences would be much less dangerous if people (especially convicted criminals and the mentally ill) simply did not have access to weapons. Especially military grade weapons.

In both the UK and Australia, strict gun controls were put in place following early occurrences of mass killings involving assault weapons. As a result, similar events have not occurred since. The US has not done the same, and so these horrible crimes keep happening.

I think guns should be tightly controlled, with strict and mandatory background checks. Assault weapons should be banned completely. The latter are explicitly designed for efficient killing of large animals or humans in significant numbers, and they have no place in society outside of war.

TLDR: I think media contribute to this problem but are not directly responsible for it. The weapons manufacturers and NRA are responsible, and need to be tackled head on, with no backing down.
 
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