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Evening Consolidation

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21 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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21. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 13, 2013, 20:08 Beamer
 
Rigs wrote on Jan 13, 2013, 16:09:
Dades wrote on Jan 12, 2013, 17:30:
$50 from 20 years ago is not $50 today though. Your $50 from 20 years ago buys a lot more than it does now. Videogames cost up to $100 in the SNES days, it doesn't mean anything now and that's why your point falls flat.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

See, you did it again. You're comparing the '$50' of today to the the $50 of the past in regards to buying other things and it's 'value' between then and now. My argument is not about $50 compared to what it was. But I'm not going to argue it any further. You guys just don't get what I'm trying to say and no matter how I try to explain it, you just fall back to the whole 'economies of scale' and inflation facts when they have nothing to do with what I'm trying to convey. But whatever... Sigh


=-Rigs-=

If an entire room doesn't get what you're saying, and keeps correcting you...
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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20. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 13, 2013, 16:09 Rigs
 
Dades wrote on Jan 12, 2013, 17:30:
$50 from 20 years ago is not $50 today though. Your $50 from 20 years ago buys a lot more than it does now. Videogames cost up to $100 in the SNES days, it doesn't mean anything now and that's why your point falls flat.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

See, you did it again. You're comparing the '$50' of today to the the $50 of the past in regards to buying other things and it's 'value' between then and now. My argument is not about $50 compared to what it was. But I'm not going to argue it any further. You guys just don't get what I'm trying to say and no matter how I try to explain it, you just fall back to the whole 'economies of scale' and inflation facts when they have nothing to do with what I'm trying to convey. But whatever... Sigh


=-Rigs-=
 
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'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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19. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 12, 2013, 17:30 Dades
 
$50 from 20 years ago is not $50 today though. Your $50 from 20 years ago buys a lot more than it does now. Videogames cost up to $100 in the SNES days, it doesn't mean anything now and that's why your point falls flat.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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18. Re: More Big Picture Details Jan 12, 2013, 11:55 Rigs
 
Ok, ok, sorry, the argument I have in my head is not coming out in an easy-to-follow way here and for that I apologize. You guys aren't getting what I'm saying and I'm not quite sure how to explain it any other way, honestly. When I say $50 is $50, I mean that 20 years ago, you worked, got paid, went down to the store and bought a game for $50. Today, you work, get paid, and go down to the store and still pay $50. This is what I mean. Not inflation. Not 'economies of scale'. You pay $50 for a game today just like you used to and way back it was promised that this would change when cd's (and then dvd's) came out. It hasn't. That's my argument. I can't make it any clearer than that. Movingalong


=-Rigs-=
 
Avatar 14292
 
'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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17. Re: More Big Picture Details Jan 11, 2013, 10:10 HorrorScope
 
Rigs, I like your idea, but the industry has addressed the cost of games when the last gen consoles came out. The cost of game development for the large houses has skyrocketed, this is why they even went up $10.

You missed the biggest game saver change though, from ROM based cartridges to anything else. For PC games the best news is both indy and DD, we all know why.
 
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16. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 11, 2013, 08:43 Verno
 
Rigs wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 07:31:
*sigh*

You guys are totally missing my point...

Err, I see what everyone else is saying and it makes sense, not sure what the problem is. First off $50 today is not $50 twenty years ago by any measure. The cost of development for AAA titles has exponentially increased while the cost of a game has remained relatively static. The boxed software and manufacturing cost savings from digital distribution has been offset by the increase in actual development costs. Games are incredibly expensive to make these days, I don't think you realize just how much a AAA title actually costs to deliver to market.

We already see a lot of cheap games on DD platforms, I can pick up a AAA title for $30 or less usually a month or two after release thanks to competition and heavy discounting outside of the 30 day release period.

The DDE argument doesn't make any sense, it's an optional SKU for gamers like us who want all the extras, not casual markets. Besides, most casual gamers buy a few games a year and aren't really impacted by it.

Personally I would much rather games be priced based on demand, I would pay $60 for something like FTL with a lot of replay value and maybe only $20 for the SP portion of the latest COD horseshit. Unfortunately most of the market values price stability instead to keep things affordable for others which is understandable.
 
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Playing: Dark Souls 2
Watching: Korengal, Legends, Intruders
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15. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 11, 2013, 08:10 Beamer
 
Rigs wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 07:31:
*sigh*

You guys are totally missing my point...

'Economies of scale' is/are irrelevant in the scope of this argument. Fifty bucks today is just the same as fifty bucks 20 years ago. IOW, $50 is $50. Whether that $50 back then equates to $30 or $25 now doesn't matter. Games are still $50 - $60 at launch and the promise of cd's and dvd's was to bring that cost down, which never happened. Games were $50 - $60 when released twenty years ago and they're $50 - $60 now (depending on the game, which 'version' you get, if you pre-order...blah, blah, blah) C'mon, why are you two having a hard time with this?

We're having a hard time with this because you began with "$50 today =$50 20 years ago." Patently false. Factually false.

Oddly false.

1) Cereal was like a buck a box 20 years ago. It's like four fifty a box now, and boxes are smaller. Yet games have actually reduced cost (stop whining about limited editions. Do you know how much the regular version of Civilization cost me when it was a year old? It was over $50, I'll tell you that much.)

2) Games 20 years ago were the product of 1-5 guys. Today? A game made by 1-5 guys is probably Free to $10. See: FTL. See: Every iOS game. But those $50 games you whine about? The product of 100-500 guys.

That's where the cost savings ended up.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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14. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 11, 2013, 07:31 Rigs
 
*sigh*

You guys are totally missing my point...

'Economies of scale' is/are irrelevant in the scope of this argument. Fifty bucks today is just the same as fifty bucks 20 years ago. IOW, $50 is $50. Whether that $50 back then equates to $30 or $25 now doesn't matter. Games are still $50 - $60 at launch and the promise of cd's and dvd's was to bring that cost down, which never happened. Games were $50 - $60 when released twenty years ago and they're $50 - $60 now (depending on the game, which 'version' you get, if you pre-order...blah, blah, blah) C'mon, why are you two having a hard time with this? Yes, 'Digital Deluxe' versions are the 'Limited/Special Edition' of the downloadable release but the fact remains that they need not be that high if only because we continue to buy them at that price. Sure I, and most well-educated (or at least well informed Inquisitive ) gamers, like most who come here, know better. But we're not the ones that spend the millions on these 'Deluxe' versions, or on 'casual' quick-time-events disguised as mini-games, or hats for TF2 (*ahem!*) and cows for Farmville (or whatever it is you buy for a dollar or two at a time in these games). And those gamers aren't aware that there is and should be a difference in price between the two...This isn't rocket science, guys...


=-Rigs-=
 
Avatar 14292
 
'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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13. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 11, 2013, 07:01 Dades
 
The cost of games has gone down, thanks to economy of scale, the cost has not kept up with inflation or development. That's why digital games are not cheaper. We already get the benefit of cheap games relatively quickly after release and many games are going F2P or have a cheap entry cost. I'm not sure what more you want.

Digital Deluxe Editions are just premium products to fleece people who are less discerning with their money, you can safely ignore them.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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12. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 11, 2013, 03:31 Rigs
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 01:47:
Dude, seriously? Games are cheaper than they've ever been. Dishonored, XCom, BL 2 were all $30 within a month or two of release.

'Dude', yes, seriously. I'm not talking about two or three months after release, I'm talking AT release. Before release, when you pre-order. Even a 'Digital Deluxe' copy of any anticipated game will set you back $60 - $80, sometimes over $100! You call that cheap?! No, it's not, no matter how you want to spin it. Digital releases should be the cheapest of them all, there's no freakin' packaging, distribution, shelf space to occupy, retailers to haggle with! Why the $80 price tag?

Take Star Trek Online, for example. Before release, I couldn't find a 'Digital Deluxe' version for pre-order under $70. Why?! They upload the file to a server they already use, so it's not for bandwidth. For making the game? Fine, but why $70 a piece? Why not $30? Sure, after a few months, it dropped considerably, but only because of it's ratings and selling volume/subscription rate (or lack thereof).

My point is that the price of games today is not based on some outdated scheme of packaging and distribution, yet they'd have you believe that so they can continue to charge outrageous prices, that, if you actually look at it, just can't be justified...


=-Rigs-=
 
Avatar 14292
 
'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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11. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 11, 2013, 03:23 InBlack
 
Translation:

Microsoft: Get ready to buy all of your software through our Online Store, because you aint gonna be able to get anything else to run on Windows9 anyway...MUAHAHAHAHAH....
 
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10. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 11, 2013, 01:47 jdreyer
 
Rigs wrote on Jan 11, 2013, 00:30:
When is the fucking price going to actually come down?!? Hello?! It's been 20-odd fucking years now! I can't see why a game has to cost $60 or even $50 at launch nowadays. They do it because we, gamers, let them! Just like gas prices. They raised them and raised them and when it got too high and we had a slight hissy fit, they lowered them. When we weren't paying attention, they raised them again. And every time the reason was different, when they found out that they couldn't use the same reason each time...So WTF?! *taps foot anxiously, arms folded, eye-brow arched menacingly*

I'm waiting...


=-Rigs-=

Dude, seriously? Games are cheaper than they've ever been. Dishonored, XCom, BL 2 were all $30 within a month or two of release.
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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9. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 11, 2013, 00:30 Rigs
 
Oie...MS knows how to stick their foot in their mouth with great ease nowadays. I want to know one thing. Before cd's came around and the cd-rom game was the next 'big thing', we were promised (quite a few times actually, by all manner of people from Ken at Sierra (on his 'hard copy blog/newsletter/magazine/fanzine/thing') to some other gaming execs, not to mention many gaming journalists at the time, including those at CGW and I have the proof in the mag articles) a steep reduction in the cost of games because the cost of manufacturing a cd-based game was 'so much less' than that of a disk-based game. Then it was DVD's, now digital. When is the fucking price going to actually come down?!? Hello?! It's been 20-odd fucking years now! I can't see why a game has to cost $60 or even $50 at launch nowadays. They do it because we, gamers, let them! Just like gas prices. They raised them and raised them and when it got too high and we had a slight hissy fit, they lowered them. When we weren't paying attention, they raised them again. And every time the reason was different, when they found out that they couldn't use the same reason each time...So WTF?! *taps foot anxiously, arms folded, eye-brow arched menacingly*

I'm waiting...


=-Rigs-=
 
Avatar 14292
 
'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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8. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 10, 2013, 22:36 Nighthawk
 
I wish they'd move away from shitty goods while they're at it.
Anyone heard of the MP900 the microsoft cordless phone they stopped supporting after a year, and then erased it from existence shortly after.
Red rings, neglected PC gaming, the windows 8 start...screen? (page?) There's a lot they need to move away from. (Yearly windows upgrades? wtf?)
 
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7. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 10, 2013, 22:26 StingingVelvet
 
Talking about clouds makes me uneasy. I know technically Steam stores my games in a cloud, and my account is "in the cloud" to whatever extent, but it still makes me think of streaming games and constant internet connections.

In any case, as long as games have offline modes and can be kept running after servers go down I am happy to support digital.
 
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6. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 10, 2013, 20:05 nin
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 10, 2013, 20:00:
If they move to electronic only, how will I get windows on my machine if my hard drive dies? I guess I'd have to DL it at a friend's house and throw it on a USB drive or something.

Yeah, "burning" an ISO to a USB and booting/installing from it.

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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5. Re: Evening Consolidation Jan 10, 2013, 20:00 jdreyer
 
If they move to electronic only, how will I get windows on my machine if my hard drive dies? I guess I'd have to DL it at a friend's house and throw it on a USB drive or something.  
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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4. Re: More Big Picture Details Jan 10, 2013, 19:43 Dades
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jan 10, 2013, 18:52:
What console gamers hears: "One we are moved to only downloads, no more trade ins!"

Once we move away to only downloads, games are $80 and only available from us.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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3. Re: More Big Picture Details Jan 10, 2013, 19:13 The Half Elf
 
That's the tradeoff. Switching disc's and the ability to trade games in, vs digital downloads...

Now if Microsoft was smart they'd talk to publishers and developers and have some sort of digital trade in system/trade between players system. Everyone would make money off the deal and leave enough freedom for players.
 
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"I've never seen a feature like this before. It warms your ass. It's wonderful" -Walter Bishop
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2. Re: More Big Picture Details Jan 10, 2013, 18:52 HorrorScope
 
What console gamers hears: "Once we are moved to only downloads, no more trade ins! Panic."

This comment was edited on Jan 10, 2013, 19:55.
 
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