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More on Steam Hardware

Engadget has follow-ups to comments recently attributed to Ben Krasnow about plans for Steam hardware. Ben says he was misquoted (or mistranslated) and that he did not confirm Linux support and he does not think they will be showing off anything of the sort this year as reported (thanks HARDOCP). Meanwhile, there's an interview with Valve's Gabe Newell on The Verge where the Valve honcho talks of how they are working with many hardware partners on "Good, Better," or "Best" boxes for playing Steam games, and also goes ahead and says they will be releasing Linux-based "Steam boxes," among other things, also discussing their interest in low-latency controllers, biometric controllers, and other cutting edge-ness. This includes much discussion of open versus closed systems.

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25. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 13:33 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 13:15:
Verno wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 12:11:
I get that, but I don't really see how this is going to succeed to the point where everyone is using a steambox, rather than a normal console.

It doesn't necessarily have to cannibalize their own users and directly compete with consoles to succeed, it has a lot of crossover market appeal. The greedy comment is really silly, all products are designed to make money. It's how they go about doing it that matters and that remains to be seen in this case. Valve has a pretty good history of consumer value and customer friendly decisions so I'm not worried.

Yup.
It isn't about making everyone use a Steambox, it's about getting people that prefer consoles to start using Steam. Those already using Steam on their desktop/laptop will still do that and Valve will still happily serve them and take their money.

There's a certain paranoia I keep seeing where certain people think everything is designed to screw them over or make a change they don't like and don't want. Some things are aimed at people that simply aren't you. There's a direct correlation between these people and ones that use things like "kiddie gamers" to talk about console gamers. These people are incredibly quick to talk about how different they are from other gamers yet don't think Valve is smart enough to realize this, too.

Valve isn't envisioning a world where everyone uses the Steambox. Valve is just envisioning a world where every gamer uses Steam.

Multiple skus, Linux os, somehow I just don't see the console crowd running out and embracing what's essentially a porting of steam over to a mini PC. I get what they want to do out of this, I just don't see the overall point of it.
 
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24. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 13:15 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 12:11:
I get that, but I don't really see how this is going to succeed to the point where everyone is using a steambox, rather than a normal console.

It doesn't necessarily have to cannibalize their own users and directly compete with consoles to succeed, it has a lot of crossover market appeal. The greedy comment is really silly, all products are designed to make money. It's how they go about doing it that matters and that remains to be seen in this case. Valve has a pretty good history of consumer value and customer friendly decisions so I'm not worried.

Yup.
It isn't about making everyone use a Steambox, it's about getting people that prefer consoles to start using Steam. Those already using Steam on their desktop/laptop will still do that and Valve will still happily serve them and take their money.

There's a certain paranoia I keep seeing where certain people think everything is designed to screw them over or make a change they don't like and don't want. Some things are aimed at people that simply aren't you. There's a direct correlation between these people and ones that use things like "kiddie gamers" to talk about console gamers. These people are incredibly quick to talk about how different they are from other gamers yet don't think Valve is smart enough to realize this, too.

Valve isn't envisioning a world where everyone uses the Steambox. Valve is just envisioning a world where every gamer uses Steam.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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23. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 12:11 Verno
 
I get that, but I don't really see how this is going to succeed to the point where everyone is using a steambox, rather than a normal console.

It doesn't necessarily have to cannibalize their own users and directly compete with consoles to succeed, it has a lot of crossover market appeal. The greedy comment is really silly, all products are designed to make money. It's how they go about doing it that matters and that remains to be seen in this case. Valve has a pretty good history of consumer value and customer friendly decisions so I'm not worried.
 
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22. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 12:06 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 11:59:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 11:18:
Beamer wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 09:52:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 08:49:
Dades wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 07:34:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 23:35:
I'm not even sure who this is for, really. What market do they think they are appealing to? I can't think of anyone, from PC gamers to console gamers, casuals to Android indie worshipers, who isn't better served with a different product.

Helps if you try thinking about it for 10 seconds. The hardware in there could make it everything from a kickass HTPC to a living room console that has access to a massive existing library of games. The biggest barrier to the PC in the living room has been form factor and input, this combined with the ten foot interface solves both problems.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

The biggest barrier is hardcore PC users generally couldn't care less if they're wired or not or on the couch or not. You're thinking of the casuals who will move on to something else as soon as the "oooh shiny" wears off.

Well, you have to consider two things:
1) Valve has captured the hardcore PC market. Captured. Exhausted, even. How is Steam supposed to grow? Nearly every game is released on Steam, and I think we all agree that Steam is probably doing more revenue than B&M at this point. So where is Steam supposed to grow? How do you grow when your market share is already monumentally larger than the next guy?
2) That casual market you think is all "oooh shiny" brings in more dollars collectively than the hardcore market. You think only PC gamers are hardcore. PC gamers spend less than console gamers. Yeah, they may spend more per user, but there are fewer users

It only makes sense that Valve, wanting to continue growing but running out of space in its own market, and seeing another fat market just sitting there, would want to reach into that market.

So hardcore PC users aren't a barrier here because they're not the market here. Hardcore PC users can keep dedicating a desk or a room to their hobby and sitting in there away from anyone else in their home. Non-hardcore (which isn't necessarily casual) want something more social and requiring less space. So long as some of those hardcore users are early adopters to create buzz they're fine.

Convincing someone like you to buy a Steambox is not their plan.

Steam is a digital storefront, what is there to "grow"? It's a god damn marketplace that has done well out of how convenient it makes it to buy PC games. Are we going to see a Origin box next? How bout a Gamer's Gate box? Some of you guys talk up Valve and Steam like they're Christ reborn. Stop it, it's ridiculous.

It's impossible to talk business with you when you fail to understand even the basic goals of a company.
"Grow" means increase revenues. Companies typically grow in a few ways:
1) Capture more of the market
2) Increase the size of the market
3) Enter a new market
4) An acquisition (that achieves one of the 3 above)

Steam can't really capture any more of the market because they're so dominant. They can really only seek to either increase the size of the market, meaning draw new people into playing the games on Steam, or enter a new market, meaning start carrying games on Steam that appeal to someone other than hardcore gamers (the type of people that tend to like their gaming most on a TV.)

So Valve is going for that route. Will it succeed? Don't know. But they need to try something, because their year over year sales are likely starting to go flat.

I also don't see how this is talking about Valve or Steam like they're Christ reborn. Nowhere in the post you quote do I compliment them or speak particularly highly. I just said they've basically exhausted how large they can grow by simply offering a PC game store that carries hardcore games.



I get that, but I don't really see how this is going to succeed to the point where everyone is using a steambox, rather than a normal console. Valve via Steam on PC already prints money for them, kinda ties into the "greedy corporations" you're always going on about eh?

With multiple skus to boot I have a really hard time seeing this be as successful as they want it to be.
 
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21. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 11:59 Beamer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 11:18:
Beamer wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 09:52:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 08:49:
Dades wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 07:34:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 23:35:
I'm not even sure who this is for, really. What market do they think they are appealing to? I can't think of anyone, from PC gamers to console gamers, casuals to Android indie worshipers, who isn't better served with a different product.

Helps if you try thinking about it for 10 seconds. The hardware in there could make it everything from a kickass HTPC to a living room console that has access to a massive existing library of games. The biggest barrier to the PC in the living room has been form factor and input, this combined with the ten foot interface solves both problems.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

The biggest barrier is hardcore PC users generally couldn't care less if they're wired or not or on the couch or not. You're thinking of the casuals who will move on to something else as soon as the "oooh shiny" wears off.

Well, you have to consider two things:
1) Valve has captured the hardcore PC market. Captured. Exhausted, even. How is Steam supposed to grow? Nearly every game is released on Steam, and I think we all agree that Steam is probably doing more revenue than B&M at this point. So where is Steam supposed to grow? How do you grow when your market share is already monumentally larger than the next guy?
2) That casual market you think is all "oooh shiny" brings in more dollars collectively than the hardcore market. You think only PC gamers are hardcore. PC gamers spend less than console gamers. Yeah, they may spend more per user, but there are fewer users

It only makes sense that Valve, wanting to continue growing but running out of space in its own market, and seeing another fat market just sitting there, would want to reach into that market.

So hardcore PC users aren't a barrier here because they're not the market here. Hardcore PC users can keep dedicating a desk or a room to their hobby and sitting in there away from anyone else in their home. Non-hardcore (which isn't necessarily casual) want something more social and requiring less space. So long as some of those hardcore users are early adopters to create buzz they're fine.

Convincing someone like you to buy a Steambox is not their plan.

Steam is a digital storefront, what is there to "grow"? It's a god damn marketplace that has done well out of how convenient it makes it to buy PC games. Are we going to see a Origin box next? How bout a Gamer's Gate box? Some of you guys talk up Valve and Steam like they're Christ reborn. Stop it, it's ridiculous.

It's impossible to talk business with you when you fail to understand even the basic goals of a company.
"Grow" means increase revenues. Companies typically grow in a few ways:
1) Capture more of the market
2) Increase the size of the market
3) Enter a new market
4) An acquisition (that achieves one of the 3 above)

Steam can't really capture any more of the market because they're so dominant. They can really only seek to either increase the size of the market, meaning draw new people into playing the games on Steam, or enter a new market, meaning start carrying games on Steam that appeal to someone other than hardcore gamers (the type of people that tend to like their gaming most on a TV.)

So Valve is going for that route. Will it succeed? Don't know. But they need to try something, because their year over year sales are likely starting to go flat.

I also don't see how this is talking about Valve or Steam like they're Christ reborn. Nowhere in the post you quote do I compliment them or speak particularly highly. I just said they've basically exhausted how large they can grow by simply offering a PC game store that carries hardcore games.


 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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20. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 11:47 Verno
 
The aesthetics are fine and I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware ended up as powerful or moreso than current consoles, people put up with way worse in the living room. I don't see why the OS matters either, its just how many compatible games can it deliver and that depends on what kind of weight Valve can throw around. No reason it couldn't run Windows too, some people have speculated that a higher tiered SKU might do so. If they were a smaller company I'd be dubious but they have an incredibly large customer base. HTPCs are expensive to build and the prebuilt options (Zotac, Foxconn) aren't powerful enough for the kind of gaming most want to do. It has a lot of crossover market appeal unlike the Razer thing posted in the news story below this one. If they could get external videocards (Thunderbolt, maybe in a year?) finally sorted out then this sort of thing would be ideal even.

They could even go one step further and integrate some home server software, that would be pretty crazy. Finally lets not forget this is a first effort, the first Xbox was 3/4 off the shelf parts and a total loser. It sounds like they will be smart enough to sell this at a profit so hopefully there would be a second gen at some point. I guess we'll see! Exciting times!

Can we call it a GabeCube? Please?
 
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19. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 11:35 StingingVelvet
 
Dades wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 07:34:
Helps if you try thinking about it for 10 seconds. The hardware in there could make it everything from a kickass HTPC to a living room console that has access to a massive existing library of games. The biggest barrier to the PC in the living room has been form factor and input, this combined with the ten foot interface solves both problems.

I like your "fuck you asshole" debate style. Anyway, of course I know some PC gamers like to game from the couch, but enough that this product is really viable simply as an aesthetic choice? You can build a media PC that looks decent already, and they even have media center friendly cases out there already, it's nothing new. Having it run Linux and probably be underpowered compared to new consoles releasing earlier and, well... I don't see the point.
 
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18. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 11:22 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 09:52:
1) Valve has captured the hardcore PC market. Captured. Exhausted, even. How is Steam supposed to grow? Nearly every game is released on Steam, and I think we all agree that Steam is probably doing more revenue than B&M at this point. So where is Steam supposed to grow? How do you grow when your market share is already monumentally larger than the next guy?

They should ask Balmer! I'm sure he'd recommend that they release Steam 8 with a shitty UI which is utterly unsuitable to 99% of their existing customer base in the hopes of capturing a few percent from a different market which is already sewn up by one of their main competitors.

Then, failing that, he'd say they need to release the Steambox, but release the totally worthless, shitty version first, so that everyone vomits inside their mouth a little bit at the sight of it, and completely forgets all about it by the time the actual product comes to market.

How could it possibly fail????

Creston
 
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17. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 11:18 RollinThundr
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 09:52:
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 08:49:
Dades wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 07:34:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 23:35:
I'm not even sure who this is for, really. What market do they think they are appealing to? I can't think of anyone, from PC gamers to console gamers, casuals to Android indie worshipers, who isn't better served with a different product.

Helps if you try thinking about it for 10 seconds. The hardware in there could make it everything from a kickass HTPC to a living room console that has access to a massive existing library of games. The biggest barrier to the PC in the living room has been form factor and input, this combined with the ten foot interface solves both problems.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

The biggest barrier is hardcore PC users generally couldn't care less if they're wired or not or on the couch or not. You're thinking of the casuals who will move on to something else as soon as the "oooh shiny" wears off.

Well, you have to consider two things:
1) Valve has captured the hardcore PC market. Captured. Exhausted, even. How is Steam supposed to grow? Nearly every game is released on Steam, and I think we all agree that Steam is probably doing more revenue than B&M at this point. So where is Steam supposed to grow? How do you grow when your market share is already monumentally larger than the next guy?
2) That casual market you think is all "oooh shiny" brings in more dollars collectively than the hardcore market. You think only PC gamers are hardcore. PC gamers spend less than console gamers. Yeah, they may spend more per user, but there are fewer users

It only makes sense that Valve, wanting to continue growing but running out of space in its own market, and seeing another fat market just sitting there, would want to reach into that market.

So hardcore PC users aren't a barrier here because they're not the market here. Hardcore PC users can keep dedicating a desk or a room to their hobby and sitting in there away from anyone else in their home. Non-hardcore (which isn't necessarily casual) want something more social and requiring less space. So long as some of those hardcore users are early adopters to create buzz they're fine.

Convincing someone like you to buy a Steambox is not their plan.

Steam is a digital storefront, what is there to "grow"? It's a god damn marketplace that has done well out of how convenient it makes it to buy PC games. Are we going to see a Origin box next? How bout a Gamer's Gate box? Some of you guys talk up Valve and Steam like they're Christ reborn. Stop it, it's ridiculous.
 
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16. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 09:52 Beamer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 08:49:
Dades wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 07:34:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 23:35:
I'm not even sure who this is for, really. What market do they think they are appealing to? I can't think of anyone, from PC gamers to console gamers, casuals to Android indie worshipers, who isn't better served with a different product.

Helps if you try thinking about it for 10 seconds. The hardware in there could make it everything from a kickass HTPC to a living room console that has access to a massive existing library of games. The biggest barrier to the PC in the living room has been form factor and input, this combined with the ten foot interface solves both problems.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

The biggest barrier is hardcore PC users generally couldn't care less if they're wired or not or on the couch or not. You're thinking of the casuals who will move on to something else as soon as the "oooh shiny" wears off.

Well, you have to consider two things:
1) Valve has captured the hardcore PC market. Captured. Exhausted, even. How is Steam supposed to grow? Nearly every game is released on Steam, and I think we all agree that Steam is probably doing more revenue than B&M at this point. So where is Steam supposed to grow? How do you grow when your market share is already monumentally larger than the next guy?
2) That casual market you think is all "oooh shiny" brings in more dollars collectively than the hardcore market. You think only PC gamers are hardcore. PC gamers spend less than console gamers. Yeah, they may spend more per user, but there are fewer users

It only makes sense that Valve, wanting to continue growing but running out of space in its own market, and seeing another fat market just sitting there, would want to reach into that market.

So hardcore PC users aren't a barrier here because they're not the market here. Hardcore PC users can keep dedicating a desk or a room to their hobby and sitting in there away from anyone else in their home. Non-hardcore (which isn't necessarily casual) want something more social and requiring less space. So long as some of those hardcore users are early adopters to create buzz they're fine.

Convincing someone like you to buy a Steambox is not their plan.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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15. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 09:13 Verno
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 09:08:
And that's fine. I just don't see a ton of pc guys really chomping at the bit for an underpowered steam box that they can hook up to their TV, when there are already means available to do it with a normal pc if one really wanted to.

Some games are fun on the computer, others are fun in the living room or socially. I think you're vastly under estimating how much variety there is in a user base the size of Steam, you're only thinking of your own usage scenarios. It's apparently going to support user expansion and won't have a locked bootloader so people will be able to tinker away too.
 
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14. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 09:08 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 09:02:
Speak for yourself Thunder, I know quite a few PC gamers who play stuff from the couch. There are a ton of great games I prefer to kick back with a controller for and many I prefer sitting at the desk. I'd be quite happy with something like this, depending on the price.

And that's fine. I just don't see a ton of pc guys really chomping at the bit for an underpowered steam box that they can hook up to their TV, when there are already means available to do it with a normal pc if one really wanted to.
 
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13. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 09:02 Verno
 
Speak for yourself Thunder, I know quite a few PC gamers who play stuff from the couch. There are a ton of great games I prefer to kick back with a controller for and many I prefer sitting at the desk. I'd be quite happy with something like this, depending on the price.  
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Playing: Divinity Original Sin, Infamous Second Son, Madden
Watching: Spartan, Possible Worlds, The Changeling
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12. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 08:49 RollinThundr
 
Dades wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 07:34:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 23:35:
I'm not even sure who this is for, really. What market do they think they are appealing to? I can't think of anyone, from PC gamers to console gamers, casuals to Android indie worshipers, who isn't better served with a different product.

Helps if you try thinking about it for 10 seconds. The hardware in there could make it everything from a kickass HTPC to a living room console that has access to a massive existing library of games. The biggest barrier to the PC in the living room has been form factor and input, this combined with the ten foot interface solves both problems.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

The biggest barrier is hardcore PC users generally couldn't care less if they're wired or not or on the couch or not. You're thinking of the casuals who will move on to something else as soon as the "oooh shiny" wears off.
 
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11. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 07:35 gray
 
This is all a stepping stone to wearables.

Nvidia's GRID is going completely the other direction and is a dead end beyond casual.
 
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10. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 07:34 Dades
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 23:35:
I'm not even sure who this is for, really. What market do they think they are appealing to? I can't think of anyone, from PC gamers to console gamers, casuals to Android indie worshipers, who isn't better served with a different product.

Helps if you try thinking about it for 10 seconds. The hardware in there could make it everything from a kickass HTPC to a living room console that has access to a massive existing library of games. The biggest barrier to the PC in the living room has been form factor and input, this combined with the ten foot interface solves both problems.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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9. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 06:36 Agrajag
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 21:53:
entice a lot of big developers to step into the nightmare that is high-end gaming on Linux

The only actual "nightmare" is dealing with the different distros, each with their own different set of preinstalled libraries and supporting software, and trying to just work out of the box on all of them... But, if you pick a single target with known software, like presumably this Steam box will have, there's no real problems... Do Android developers have a "nightmare" getting their games running? That's Linux underneath, too...
 
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8. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 03:53 InBlack
 
Creston wrote on Jan 9, 2013, 00:48:
Anonymous wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 22:23:
Although theoretically a fat beam of infrared should be faster than the speed of electricity amirite?

Seeing as how electricity travels at the speed of light in a vacuum, and somewhere around 95-97% of said speed in most other materials, the difference is probably not really noticeable.

And infrared just sucks for data transfers of any kind, unless it's precisely aimed and stays that way...

Creston

If you are talking about the speed of the electromagnetic wave in a medium and not the actual speed of the electrons then yes you are right. However electricity cant really travel in a vacuum unless you are shooting electrons through it somehow, it needs a conductor. Photons are another matter, since they dont need a conductor.

Also a fat beam of infrared would be a very unefficient way of transfering information or energy, at least in air, since infrared is easily absorbed by air particles.

This comment was edited on Jan 9, 2013, 04:00.
 
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7. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 9, 2013, 00:48 Creston
 
Anonymous wrote on Jan 8, 2013, 22:23:
Although theoretically a fat beam of infrared should be faster than the speed of electricity amirite?

Seeing as how electricity travels at the speed of light in a vacuum, and somewhere around 95-97% of said speed in most other materials, the difference is probably not really noticeable.

And infrared just sucks for data transfers of any kind, unless it's precisely aimed and stays that way...

Creston
 
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6. Re: More on Steam Hardware Jan 8, 2013, 23:35 StingingVelvet
 
I'm not even sure who this is for, really. What market do they think they are appealing to? I can't think of anyone, from PC gamers to console gamers, casuals to Android indie worshipers, who isn't better served with a different product.  
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