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NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming

NVIDIA announces NVIDIA GRID, their own entry into the cloud computing area, saying they are "building on a unique legacy in gaming graphics and graphic performance to lead the way" in this area pioneered by Gaikai and OnLive. This page has further details, claiming their implementation will allow more concurrent users per server, lower latency, and better game content. Here's an overview: "NVIDIA GRID leverages some of this same technology to render and stream games from the cloud, with thousands of engineers dedicated to creating the ultimate system for service operators. Think of it as a gaming supercomputer in the cloud, built by NVIDIA."

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33. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 8, 2013, 12:52 Creston
 
Verno wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 14:49:
Creston wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 14:47:
jdreyer wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 14:05:
3. This dovetails nicely with Nvidia's Project Sheild, since that device has controllers built in. Streaming to that device would remove it's big negative: lack of software content.

I can't begin to imagine the horrible quality you'd have streaming a cloud gaming stream to a wireless device... onLive never actually got so far as to support wireless.

Creston

Double your latency, double your....fun?

It works as well as any slogan. This might be what onLive needs!

Creston
 
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32. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 8, 2013, 11:31 Krizzen
 
Well, regardless of how the gaming portion ends up, their enterprise end of the deal will likely rake in cash:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/vdi-desktop-virtualization.html

I'd say there is a LOT of demand from various 3D shops for low cost, real-time previews. Up until this point, to get nice real-time previews of a 3D cinematic you'd need a beast of a machine(s) with some nVidia Quadro cards. Their cloud system is basically a drop-in replacement for the Quadro driver. Genius!
 
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31. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 19:52 NewMaxx
 
It's pretty clear that Nvidia has a huge presence in the supercomputer and cloud markets, as their GPU + CPU designs provide ridiculous efficiency. They also already have partners in place every direction in the pipeline, so that's two key aspects right there that OnLive didn't have in the least. In fact the only thing they were missing was the hardware, which was best waited on until they could get it right - after watching the mistakes of others and gauging the market. Now they just need to get the rendering time down, keep it affordable, and work with telecomm.

That being said, I very much agree with what many people in this thread stated: that price is the real factor. If this game make gaming cheap enough, the reality is that it will take market share. It's no different than outsourcing or other cloud solutions in that respect: you save money, just at the consumer level. With the way the Wii U is going, with the way Valve's Big Screen and hardware project is going, with how the Ouya is going, with how the gaming market in general is going, you will simply need consolidation/simplicity in the living room; merely disliking that reality doesn't make it go away.

I actually think this is a big step any way you look at it. If it fails spectacularly, good; we won't have any more of it. If it succeeds, great, gaming made cheaper and more available. This is a big push from Nvidia, I don't think it's just "testing the waters"; they have a strong game plan (well, stronger than what others have had) and the resources to make it happen. I'm just curious what they expect from content creators and ISP's in terms of cooperation.

This comment was edited on Jan 7, 2013, 19:58.
 
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30. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 19:14 coolkev99
 
This is all a bunch of nonsense. You can blame all the casuals playing Angry birds on iDevices for this.

Obviously Nvidia is hedging the death of the PC (like microsoft) and investing in other forms of gaming/display technologies. Whats ironic is that most of the folks who would spend money on a discrete video card (or high-end console) wouldn't touch the steamy turd that is streaming games. OH yes, I've played Onlive.. its actually extremely cool tech... but horrid to look at, and laggy. In the era of "HD" it is anything but.

So just as the Wii brought on copycat and alternative (and lousy) controllers. The cell phones and mobile are bringing alternative and copycat (lousy) graphics to users without the needed hardware expense.

 
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29. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 17:26 4D-Boxing
 
Anyone else notice that Nvidia is setting itself up to be in a prime spot in the cellphone/tablet/portable gaming market pretty rapidly?

Maybe not those market but yes they seem to be getting ready for a major move. Based on the achitecture of their next GPUs, Nvidia may try to release its own gaming system. Their GPUs will now be able to run an OS due to the new architecture, i can see them having a small box with a SSD small PSU and a dual GPU similar to a 590 or 690 but no blue ray player.

Cloud processing would compliment their hardware. Latency issues make cloud gaming a poor alternative to what is out there now so this approach makes more sense to me. (Yes tech exists to eliminate latency and improve performance by 10 folds just using math...and other tech but we've been hearing it for years and nothing even though some improvements do not require changing the infrastucture)
 
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28. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 16:56 Panickd
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 16:15:
I don't agree that head mounted full VR is going to catch on. As cool as it is in theory, it's also an isolation booth.

As gamers get older, I think they're also getting less interested in being wholly immersed. At some point having at least a minor situational awareness of the house around you begins to be more important than the total immersion VR could offer.

And I just don't see people wanting to sit there with anything on their heads. It's among the many reasons 3D hasn't caught on at home.

Full on VR may not catch on like a wild fire but I would bet even money that when someone does a good AR implementation it will take off and many of the same issues that are plaguing VR implementations right now are also things that need to be solved for AR to work well. So anything that pushes on that boundary is a good thing, IMO.
 
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27. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 16:15 Beamer
 
Krizzen wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 15:58:
InBlack wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 10:59:
To be fair to them, this shit might be worth it a few years down the line so Im guessing that Nvidia is pushing this more as a long term engineering roadmap/investment plan.

Nope. Low latency is the key to head mounted displays for a full "VR" experience, and it's likely coming in a few years. Cloud gaming is a dead end deal for the future of gaming.

That's not to say that streaming games over the internet isn't cool as hell. I think it's amazing, but to me it's still just that -- cool. Usable? Marginally so.

For more info than you'll need, check the "Latency" post on this Valve Software blog:
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/

I don't agree that head mounted full VR is going to catch on. As cool as it is in theory, it's also an isolation booth.

As gamers get older, I think they're also getting less interested in being wholly immersed. At some point having at least a minor situational awareness of the house around you begins to be more important than the total immersion VR could offer.

And I just don't see people wanting to sit there with anything on their heads. It's among the many reasons 3D hasn't caught on at home.
 
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26. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 15:58 Krizzen
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 10:59:
To be fair to them, this shit might be worth it a few years down the line so Im guessing that Nvidia is pushing this more as a long term engineering roadmap/investment plan.

Nope. Low latency is the key to head mounted displays for a full "VR" experience, and it's likely coming in a few years. Cloud gaming is a dead end deal for the future of gaming.

That's not to say that streaming games over the internet isn't cool as hell. I think it's amazing, but to me it's still just that -- cool. Usable? Marginally so.

For more info than you'll need, check the "Latency" post on this Valve Software blog:
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/
 
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25. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 15:51 Quboid
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 15:26:
One of us is misreading The Half Elf. I think he meant making tablets, not making SoCs.

Tegra is obviously already a big deal, but I don't see NVIDIA ever go from making Tegra and selling it to OEMs to making their own tablets. That sounds like a death sentence. It requires an enormous competency investment they don't have, enormous marketing and distribution they don't have, and risks alienating the OEMs and pushing them to alternatives, particularly if they are aggressive with pricing.

Most companies that sell mostly to OEMs then try to get into their own direct to consumer end up getting whacked hard in the face.

Ah, I see. They have just announced the Project Shield thing, but that looks more like a concept device to promote Tegra. I certainly hope for their sake that they aren't banking on it being a big seller if it does go into full production. I agree that they should stay out of the consumer market.
 
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- Quboid
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24. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 15:29 DangerDog
 
I have a feeling that this is the way Valve intends to deliver content to their linux console. They're going to use this technology to roll their own gaikai / onlive service for steam users.

If it gave instant access to all the games in your library without needing to download and install them locally, they would really put the hurt on all the other cloud gaming businesses.
 
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23. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 15:26 Beamer
 
Quboid wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 15:23:
Beamer wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:57:
Cutter wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:39:
The Half Elf wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:24:
Anyone else notice that Nvidia is setting itself up to be in a prime spot in the cellphone/tablet/portable gaming market pretty rapidly?

They're too late to the party.

I don't think they want to be in the consumer market, anyway. They see the compromises companies need to make. They'd rather sell a ton of Tegra processors to those going to the consumer than risk destroying their OEM model. Going directly to the consumer rarely works out well for companies not known for doing so.

Very, very, very rarely.

They've been pushing the Tegra for a while now, the SoC market is big and only getting bigger and I'd estimate that there's a lot more money there than in graphics cards. I remember some quite impressive looking Android games being Tegra exclusive to much annoyance, hopefully they're going for more carrot than stick promotion now.

They're later to the party than is ideal but it's still worth going for with massive rewards.

One of us is misreading The Half Elf. I think he meant making tablets, not making SoCs.

Tegra is obviously already a big deal, but I don't see NVIDIA ever go from making Tegra and selling it to OEMs to making their own tablets. That sounds like a death sentence. It requires an enormous competency investment they don't have, enormous marketing and distribution they don't have, and risks alienating the OEMs and pushing them to alternatives, particularly if they are aggressive with pricing.

Most companies that sell mostly to OEMs then try to get into their own direct to consumer end up getting whacked hard in the face.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
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22. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 15:23 Quboid
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:57:
Cutter wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:39:
The Half Elf wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:24:
Anyone else notice that Nvidia is setting itself up to be in a prime spot in the cellphone/tablet/portable gaming market pretty rapidly?

They're too late to the party.

I don't think they want to be in the consumer market, anyway. They see the compromises companies need to make. They'd rather sell a ton of Tegra processors to those going to the consumer than risk destroying their OEM model. Going directly to the consumer rarely works out well for companies not known for doing so.

Very, very, very rarely.

They've been pushing the Tegra for a while now, the SoC market is big and only getting bigger and I'd estimate that there's a lot more money there than in graphics cards. I remember some quite impressive looking Android games being Tegra exclusive to much annoyance, hopefully they're going for more carrot than stick promotion now.

They're later to the party than is ideal but it's still worth going for with massive rewards.
 
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- Quboid
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21. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 14:49 Verno
 
Creston wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 14:47:
jdreyer wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 14:05:
3. This dovetails nicely with Nvidia's Project Sheild, since that device has controllers built in. Streaming to that device would remove it's big negative: lack of software content.

I can't begin to imagine the horrible quality you'd have streaming a cloud gaming stream to a wireless device... onLive never actually got so far as to support wireless.

Creston

Double your latency, double your....fun?
 
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20. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 14:47 Creston
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 14:05:
3. This dovetails nicely with Nvidia's Project Sheild, since that device has controllers built in. Streaming to that device would remove it's big negative: lack of software content.

I can't begin to imagine the horrible quality you'd have streaming a cloud gaming stream to a wireless device... onLive never actually got so far as to support wireless.

Creston
 
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19. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 14:44 Cyanotetyphas
 
It seems like a big missed opportunity not to roll these two announcements into one as a flagship project.

Maybe this is what they are planning anyway, but why not build a hybrid device meant for streaming?
 
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18. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 14:05 jdreyer
 
Here are some of the benefits I see to having a company like NVidia do this.

1. B/C this is a side business for Nvidia, they can roll out slowly, work out kinks, and assess. They don't need to have it be an immediate success or risk going under, unlike Onlive. Nor do they have to deploy this everywhere at once to make good on their investment. They can roll out slowly and make adjustments, or even can the whole thing if it's not going well, and it won't have a huge impact on their bottom line.

2. Nvidia makes one of the key components itself, the graphics chip, so it saves on overhead there, and can even design a custom chip to handle this specific kind of processing.

3. This dovetails nicely with Nvidia's Project Sheild, since that device has controllers built in. Streaming to that device would remove it's big negative: lack of software content.

The big problem I see is that most devices with the right controllers for PC games (mouse & keyboard or gamepad) also have native graphics hardware and can run games natively, denecessiting the need for this service. Tablets and phones, where this would make the most sense, lack the controllers to run most PC games.
 
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17. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 13:57 jdreyer
 
ItBurn wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 11:16:
I haven't tried onLive or other cloud gaming solutions, but I can't see ANY input lag as being acceptable... The other huge problem is that the internet sucks in Canada. It's too slow and we have very tight/low download limits. There's no way I can stream all the time, it would cost me a fortune. I don't see any of this changing in a long time.

Apparently, lag is less of an issue than artifacting. I remember reading an article a year ago, and I recall that UT3 was laggy but playable but you'd struggle in multiplayer vs. players who hosted the game natively. But apparently RPGs and strategy titles played much better. I couldn't find that article, but here's a PC Gamer article that reviews OnLive.

...unlike other streaming services, like Spotify or iPlayer, I donít think OnLive quite hits the right balance of loss of quality against convenience. What theyíve achieved is remarkable, but itís hard to recommend paying for it, at least on the PC, just yet. The video isnít just highly compressed and full of artefacts, itís low-res in the first place too. That means details are lost and even a 2D shoot-íem-up looks fuzzy. I canít imagine playing LA Noire or a point-and-click adventure that relies on being able to see small objects to solve puzzles over OnLive.

And thatís when itís working well. Nothing breaks a gameís sense of immersion more than tearing video, vocoder-like sound errors and a flashing ďNetwork quality too lowĒ button at the top of the screen. Which does happen.

From a technical point of view, it uses over 2GB an hour bandwidth too: thatís bad news for anyone on a capped service or whose fair use policy will throttle their connection for Ďheavy useí. BT currently excludes OnLive traffic from its cap, but itís not worth switching ISP for.
 
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16. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 13:57 Beamer
 
Cutter wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:39:
The Half Elf wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:24:
Anyone else notice that Nvidia is setting itself up to be in a prime spot in the cellphone/tablet/portable gaming market pretty rapidly?

They're too late to the party.

I don't think they want to be in the consumer market, anyway. They see the compromises companies need to make. They'd rather sell a ton of Tegra processors to those going to the consumer than risk destroying their OEM model. Going directly to the consumer rarely works out well for companies not known for doing so.

Very, very, very rarely.
 
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15. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 13:56 BobBob
 
The only place I can see cloud gaming successful is in Eastern Europe or Asia where there are actual decent Internet speeds and where people don't like to buy things anyways -- in other words the real money will be in advertising over the stream.  
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14. Re: NVIDIA's Cloud Gaming Jan 7, 2013, 13:39 Cutter
 
The Half Elf wrote on Jan 7, 2013, 13:24:
Anyone else notice that Nvidia is setting itself up to be in a prime spot in the cellphone/tablet/portable gaming market pretty rapidly?

They're too late to the party.
 
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