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Op Ed

NYTimes.com - Game Theory- Making Room for the Women.
Unfortunately this rise in so-called casual play has upset some of those who see themselves as guardians of the true flame. There’s been a definite backlash against the idea that women are entering the hallowed citadel, dropping in a few scatter cushions and ending all the fun. Particular ire is reserved for anyone who dares to point out that female characters in games are often unsupported in the bra region for no apparent reason; given boring, bland supporting roles; and totally absent.

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17. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 16:42 Kobalt
 
Draugr wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 14:50:
For example, in fantasy settings racism or xenophobia is an often explored subject. I would say DA2, had it not been a total clusterfuck, would have fallen into this Category. Skyrim goes into this as well. Obviously we'd be foolish to leave out the Witcher 2. I think the first bioshock should also be on this list, though I would certainly put any themes it has into the 'clumsy' category.

Racism is probably one of the worst things done in video games. Sure you might have the odd fantasy game have something about racism is bad it is 100% nullified by the fact that..in these game there are races that are bad stereotypes. Blood thirsty savages that can never be smart as the hero. A cowardly gold hoarding race. Sound familiar to anyone? They are in most fantasy games. Perfectly ok in the video game world.
 
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16. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 16:25 Cutter
 
Who here wouldn't want to tap that market segment - no pun intended - if you were a business owner that makes games? Why only settle for half the market? And for all the guys working for these companies who get stock you can't tell me they'd object to seeing their stock rise and making bigger bonuses. And lastly you may have some hot chicks around the office to oggle - which is closer than most of those guys get to meeting real girls. So who exactly are these men that are opposed to this?
 
Avatar 25394
 
James Woods: Oh that's fun. That sounds like you had a fun time. Where would I fit in with the fun time, huh? Where does James Woods fit into the fun?
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15. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 16:10 Draugr
 
FloorPie wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 15:48:
I demand more romance novels that cater to men! Enough with these bodice rippers with muscled dudes on the cover and 50 shades of grey! I want a romance story showing off Lara Croft's juggs on the cover! No, not porn, I want an actual story dammit!

What do you mean there is no market for that? Sexism!

If you don't think that kind of material doesn't exist, you need to get out more. Or, maybe you need to stay in more. Penthouse had, or has a whole section of their magazine devoted to erotic stories.

It's not surprising to see Romance novels be bigger business with women than with men, Promiscuity among women is certainly a greater social stigma for women than it is for men, (Though obviously not as bad as it once was.) romance novels allows an indulgence of these behaviors to an extent without actually physically participating in them. A lot of the excitement without any of the risk.
I'm not trying to say this is WHY it's this way, this is just speculation on my part.

This comment was edited on Dec 26, 2012, 16:19.
 
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14. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 16:01 eRe4s3r
 
Honor system like in LoL should be implemented everywhere ;p You need to establish a reward system for good behavior, humans are just wired like that. If you don't.. well look on xbox live ^^  
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13. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 15:48 FloorPie
 
I demand more romance novels that cater to men! Enough with these bodice rippers with muscled dudes on the cover and 50 shades of grey! I want a romance story showing off Lara Croft's juggs on the cover! No, not porn, I want an actual story dammit!

What do you mean there is no market for that? Sexism!
 
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12. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 15:40 Overon
 
RollinThundr wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 14:22:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 13:43:
Overon wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 13:06:
...I just prefer if what they did was less what they do now and more of what some written books do, challenging people's fixes beliefs.

When challenging people's fixed beliefs doesn't involve risking 20-100 million dollars, risk angering shareholders, risk angering distribution partners and risk, more importantly, angering your fickle customer base who gives you billions of dollars every year, then you'll see games become sociological reform platforms.

Granted, I am sure someone can dig up an indie game somewhere that does this, but that doesn't grab the attention or sales that Call of Black Halo Duty Ops XLVI: War Gear Edition does. Such is the nature of the business and no one is going to change that business so long as it IS a business.

They're video games, they're not meant to be sociological reform platforms. If the NYTimes or any of the feminazi's take issue with that, tell them to make their own PC liberal approved videogames.

I don't know what you mean when you say what video games are "meant to be." They are meant to be whatever the developer/publisher want them to be. There are many types of books, some of them are written not to challenge fixed beliefs nor to buck stereotypes. But there are other books that do. Are books "sociological reform platoforms?" As long as media (games included) promote ideas, they are open to criticism of those ideas. You seem to want to carve out video games as the only media that shouldn't challenge stereotypes and fixed beliefs. I disagree with that.
 
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11. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 15:23 entr0py
 
First of all, I think most male gamers would welcome women to gaming, and be happy that the hobby has becoming more mainstream. You can't let the existence of rude trolls on the internet convince you that all male gamers are dickheads. Any time you have an anonymous online community full of young people, the same thing will happen. Most mature male gamers avoid the Xbox 360 community for the same reason.

And, as for game characters that are meant to be sexy, it's okay just to ignore those games. You do the same thing all the time with books and movies. You may not like gross out comedies or romance novels, you may even find them asinine and adolescent, but you would never suggest that the publishing or film industries be homogenized to eliminate all crudeness.
 
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10. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 15:18 Creston
 
Where exactly is this "definite backlash against the idea that women are entering the hallowed citadel?" or the "ire reserved for anyone who dares to point out that women... (are treated pretty shamefully in games?)"

The comments are made often, yes, because they need to be made often. 99% of all game developers are apparently 14 year old boys. But there's rarely any backlash against someone pointing this out. If anything, it's usually just accompanied by a crowd of nodding heads from people who then go on and watch Lara's new tits jiggle while she's being tortured to death and beyond. I've yet to see someone being lambasted for making that particular point other than the most retarded internet troll.

tl;dr: pointless article in pointless newspaper is pointless.

Edit : Grammar gud!

Creston

This comment was edited on Dec 26, 2012, 22:13.
 
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9. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 14:59 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Draugr wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 14:52:
Certainly not, but just like other forms of media and art it can be used to provoke discussion of social issues. Some people may not catch onto themes like these but they are there in a lot of the media we consume, Regardless of whether the author put them consciously or not.
I've got a great response to the elitist pricks who love to spout this crap in the dead tree media. Fuck off, I don't need their opinions on "omg hurt ponies, and need more shiny ponies."
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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8. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 14:52 Draugr
 
RollinThundr wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 14:22:
They're video games, they're not meant to be sociological reform platforms.

Certainly not, but just like other forms of media and art it can be used to provoke discussion of social issues. Some people may not catch onto themes like these but they are there in a lot of the media we consume, Regardless of whether the author put them consciously or not.
 
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7. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 14:50 Draugr
 
Overon wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 13:06:
Game makers can do what they want, but if they want to appeal to women, half the population, then they can do far better than they are doing now.

Games are misogynistic overall. They perpetuate stereotypes more often than not, and don't challenge people's fixed beliefs in general. Games can be more than what they are now. Books can be controversial, they can challenge people's fixed beliefs and so far, games have not been generally able to do this.

I want to make it clear before I'm attacked, that I don't think we should pass laws to make games a certain way. Developers can do what they want, I just prefer if what they did was less what they do now and more of what some written books do, challenging people's fixes beliefs.

Sure, I don't think anyone is advocating restricting free speech.

I disagree to an extent with regards to social commentary in games. I think it's there, but generally speaking its not very flushed out, or wasn't necessarily put in on purpose. For example, in fantasy settings racism or xenophobia is an often explored subject. I would say DA2, had it not been a total clusterfuck, would have fallen into this Category. Skyrim goes into this as well. Obviously we'd be foolish to leave out the Witcher 2. I think the first bioshock should also be on this list, though I would certainly put any themes it has into the 'clumsy' category.

The list doesnt have to stop there, but I'm trying to show examples.
 
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6. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 14:22 RollinThundr
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 13:43:
Overon wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 13:06:
...I just prefer if what they did was less what they do now and more of what some written books do, challenging people's fixes beliefs.

When challenging people's fixed beliefs doesn't involve risking 20-100 million dollars, risk angering shareholders, risk angering distribution partners and risk, more importantly, angering your fickle customer base who gives you billions of dollars every year, then you'll see games become sociological reform platforms.

Granted, I am sure someone can dig up an indie game somewhere that does this, but that doesn't grab the attention or sales that Call of Black Halo Duty Ops XLVI: War Gear Edition does. Such is the nature of the business and no one is going to change that business so long as it IS a business.

They're video games, they're not meant to be sociological reform platforms. If the NYTimes or any of the feminazi's take issue with that, tell them to make their own PC liberal approved videogames.
 
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5. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 13:43 Burrito of Peace
 
Overon wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 13:06:
...I just prefer if what they did was less what they do now and more of what some written books do, challenging people's fixes beliefs.

When challenging people's fixed beliefs doesn't involve risking 20-100 million dollars, risk angering shareholders, risk angering distribution partners and risk, more importantly, angering your fickle customer base who gives you billions of dollars every year, then you'll see games become sociological reform platforms.

Granted, I am sure someone can dig up an indie game somewhere that does this, but that doesn't grab the attention or sales that Call of Black Halo Duty Ops XLVI: War Gear Edition does. Such is the nature of the business and no one is going to change that business so long as it IS a business.
 
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4. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 13:06 Overon
 
Game makers can do what they want, but if they want to appeal to women, half the population, then they can do far better than they are doing now.

Games are misogynistic overall. They perpetuate stereotypes more often than not, and don't challenge people's fixed beliefs in general. Games can be more than what they are now. Books can be controversial, they can challenge people's fixed beliefs and so far, games have not been generally able to do this.

I want to make it clear before I'm attacked, that I don't think we should pass laws to make games a certain way. Developers can do what they want, I just prefer if what they did was less what they do now and more of what some written books do, challenging people's fixes beliefs.

This comment was edited on Dec 26, 2012, 13:14.
 
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3. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 13:00 Cutter
 
Well if your target sales audience are males who want to blow shit up and oggle big knockers then that's what you're going to create product for. Wocka wocka wocka!

 
Avatar 25394
 
James Woods: Oh that's fun. That sounds like you had a fun time. Where would I fit in with the fun time, huh? Where does James Woods fit into the fun?
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2. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 12:55 Eirikrautha
 
So let's see here:

  • Start a column decrying the way women gamers are treated with a stereotype of male gamers as clueless, loveless nerds -- Check


  • Next, conflate various genres of games (including lumping casual games with console/hard-core games) in order to assert that women are becoming a majority of gamers -- Check


  • Spend the next several paragraphs talking about yourself and your friends and how they are so terribly mistreated (mein kampf!), complete with the required "Men wouldn't have to put up with this!" -- Check


  • Then finally, as an aside at the very bottom of the article, say something about an ACTUAL GAME. But briefly. -- Check


  • I'm convinced, it's all a scam. There are no female games "journalists" at all... simply a handful of programs generating the same article recycling the same tired tropes over and over (someone must have stolen the software Activision uses to create the stories in the COD games... or EA's random Madden generator).

    Seriously, though. All of her stereotypes are fine, because she's soooo oppressed and all, but don't anyone else dare use one! You know, if you want to be known as a gamer (or games "journalist"), then play games... or write about games. But when every statement you make is focused around the fact you have a vagina... it's hard for me to take seriously that you are angry that other people define you by the fact that you have a vagina...
     
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    1. Re: Op Ed Dec 26, 2012, 12:49 StingingVelvet
     
    No one ever talks about modifying football to make it appeal more to women.  
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    57 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 3.
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