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Christmas Metaverse

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32 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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32. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 20:10 Dades
 
noman wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 13:20:
I think, the main issue is that once again offline mode didn't work consistently across the broader set of Steam users. Rare connection issues are in some cases expected, and Valve did fix the issue reasonably quickly. However, offline mode should always work.

They fixed this almost 8 months ago, offline mode works perfectly now and doesn't require you to be connected or set manually. Pull your ethernet cable and see for yourself.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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31. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 16:25 Dev
 
Its easy enough to test offline mode. Disable your network connection and see what happens. Steam has had bugs with offline, but they've also fixed many bugs.
I've tested it, and you do NOT have to go into offline mode while you are online. You do NOT need an internet connection to enter offline mode.
 
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30. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 13:20 noman
 
I think, the main issue is that once again offline mode didn't work consistently across the broader set of Steam users. Rare connection issues are in some cases expected, and Valve did fix the issue reasonably quickly. However, offline mode should always work.

The other digital store/DRM shops like Origin, UPlay, Impulse (Now Gamestop) etc are leagues ahead of Steam in this regard. Offline mode always works. If you start the utility and you can't make the connection to the server, you always have the chance to go to offline mode (immediately). With Steam it may or may not happen, even if you have made the changes in Steam configuration to support offline mode.
 
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29. Re: More Big Picture Details Dec 26, 2012, 12:28 HorrorScope
 
Creston wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 23:14:
Yeah, God forbid a company with a billion dollars in revenue put some of that money back into the company, right?

Creston

God forbid, we gain understanding and patience on our end. Also I'm certain they do put money back into the company. You usually do much better than this, must have been a bad day.
 
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28. Re: More Big Picture Details Dec 26, 2012, 12:21 HorrorScope
 
RollinThundr wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:06:
Creston wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:02:
As usual, Valve ignores the massive load during Xmas sales and lets everyone try to connect to their hideously overloaded servers...

I guess making a billion+ dollars in revenues isn't enough for anyone to wheel their desk over and put some extra capacity in place, Gabe?

Creston

Having a infrastructure backbone beefy enough to handle holiday sale loads just isn't an interesting enough project for Valve to work on.

Same thing with package carriers, do you build a system to handle a day or a week? Or do you build a system that handles the rest of the year at a reduced cost?

How can millions of people stream movies, that is like omg an always online connection to the internet. Where's the revolt? Being planet Earth in the year of 2012, you know which way they are going 100 out of 100 times and it's not even a bad decision any time.

This comment was edited on Dec 26, 2012, 12:35.
 
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27. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 11:59 Dev
 
Shineyguy wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 09:43:
Just as YouTube is a very poor indicator as well. You can have the greatest connection in the world, and be able to download a file at 5MB/s, but YouTube will stream ungodly slow because they don't have the bandwidth available on their back end to handle all the requests.
I don't believe this is a lack of bandwidth from youtube. I believe its a problem with their streaming algorithms which tended to be tuned to err on the side of not streaming enough. Since many people skip around on a video or to another video, they don't want to load more than you might need, but they try to load enough too.
 
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26. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 11:36 Frags4Fun
 
Shineyguy wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 09:43:
Jerykk wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 03:08:
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:35:
Creston wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:28:
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:19:
If anyone has any info, it would be appreciated. Thanks!

Odds are that he's in an area in which few people have TWC, so few people access the area's backbone, and you are in an area in which everyone has it.

Cable internet is shared internet. The more people that use it, the slower it gets. That said, if it's so congested that your 15Mbps never gets above 1.7 Mbps, TWC really should put more capacity in place. Complain to the better business bureau, and see if that'll help.

Creston

Thanks Creston.

I'm going to call them soon to complain. I'm just gathering information at the moment so that I have the right responses for their excuses. I suspect that they will point me to the speed test websites and then tell me everything is fine when it hits 25 Mbps or they may say it's the websites upload speed that is limiting me to 1.7 Mbps when downloading. I can't understand why all the speed tests give me such high numbers when even torrents are maxed out at 1.5 - 1.7 Mbps.

I've even gone so far as to plug directly into the modem to do tests in order to rule out my CAT6 cables and my router. Same numbers, so it's not my router and cabling.

Torrents are not at all a reliable indicator of bandwidth. Your download speeds depend entirely on the number of seeds and their upload rates. You could have the best connection in the world and still get lousy torrent speeds because there aren't enough seeds and/or their upload rates are too low.

Newsgroups are a much more reliable indicator of download and upload speeds.

Just as YouTube is a very poor indicator as well. You can have the greatest connection in the world, and be able to download a file at 5MB/s, but YouTube will stream ungodly slow because they don't have the bandwidth available on their back end to handle all the requests. You can see this at prime time hours in fact. YouTube is ALWAYS slow to stream for me at around 8:00-10:00 at night for me. I have a 30Mbps connection as well, and regularly see around 3MB/s downloads from newsgroups.

WOW! 3 MBps must be sweet! Who is your provider?
 
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25. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 11:34 Frags4Fun
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 03:08:
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:35:
Creston wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:28:
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:19:
If anyone has any info, it would be appreciated. Thanks!

Odds are that he's in an area in which few people have TWC, so few people access the area's backbone, and you are in an area in which everyone has it.

Cable internet is shared internet. The more people that use it, the slower it gets. That said, if it's so congested that your 15Mbps never gets above 1.7 Mbps, TWC really should put more capacity in place. Complain to the better business bureau, and see if that'll help.

Creston

Thanks Creston.

I'm going to call them soon to complain. I'm just gathering information at the moment so that I have the right responses for their excuses. I suspect that they will point me to the speed test websites and then tell me everything is fine when it hits 25 Mbps or they may say it's the websites upload speed that is limiting me to 1.7 Mbps when downloading. I can't understand why all the speed tests give me such high numbers when even torrents are maxed out at 1.5 - 1.7 Mbps.

I've even gone so far as to plug directly into the modem to do tests in order to rule out my CAT6 cables and my router. Same numbers, so it's not my router and cabling.

Torrents are not at all a reliable indicator of bandwidth. Your download speeds depend entirely on the number of seeds and their upload rates. You could have the best connection in the world and still get lousy torrent speeds because there aren't enough seeds and/or their upload rates are too low.

Newsgroups are a much more reliable indicator of download and upload speeds.

Thanks for the reply!

I realize that torrents are dependent on the seeders upload speeds. The fact that torrents, Steam, and every other method of downloading have never exceeded 1.7 Mbps for more than the first few seconds is an indicator that I'm not getting anywhere near the 10 Mbps that I'm paying for. A lot of the time, a download will start out at like 3.5 Mbps and will drop down to 1.5-1.7 within 10 or 15 seconds. That appears to be some sort of throttling. I wouldn't be concerned if I was getting like 6.5 Mbps since TWC is a shared network, but 1.5 is nowhere near 10. I'm going to call TWC this morning. I'll let you guys know what they say. I'm willing to bet that they will have some BS answer.
 
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24. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 11:06 eRe4s3r
 
Would also help if we could set the download speed, I do not want "MAX OUT MY LINE SO NOTHING WORKS" mode that steam always uses.  
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23. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 09:43 Shineyguy
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 03:08:
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:35:
Creston wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:28:
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:19:
If anyone has any info, it would be appreciated. Thanks!

Odds are that he's in an area in which few people have TWC, so few people access the area's backbone, and you are in an area in which everyone has it.

Cable internet is shared internet. The more people that use it, the slower it gets. That said, if it's so congested that your 15Mbps never gets above 1.7 Mbps, TWC really should put more capacity in place. Complain to the better business bureau, and see if that'll help.

Creston

Thanks Creston.

I'm going to call them soon to complain. I'm just gathering information at the moment so that I have the right responses for their excuses. I suspect that they will point me to the speed test websites and then tell me everything is fine when it hits 25 Mbps or they may say it's the websites upload speed that is limiting me to 1.7 Mbps when downloading. I can't understand why all the speed tests give me such high numbers when even torrents are maxed out at 1.5 - 1.7 Mbps.

I've even gone so far as to plug directly into the modem to do tests in order to rule out my CAT6 cables and my router. Same numbers, so it's not my router and cabling.

Torrents are not at all a reliable indicator of bandwidth. Your download speeds depend entirely on the number of seeds and their upload rates. You could have the best connection in the world and still get lousy torrent speeds because there aren't enough seeds and/or their upload rates are too low.

Newsgroups are a much more reliable indicator of download and upload speeds.

Just as YouTube is a very poor indicator as well. You can have the greatest connection in the world, and be able to download a file at 5MB/s, but YouTube will stream ungodly slow because they don't have the bandwidth available on their back end to handle all the requests. You can see this at prime time hours in fact. YouTube is ALWAYS slow to stream for me at around 8:00-10:00 at night for me. I have a 30Mbps connection as well, and regularly see around 3MB/s downloads from newsgroups.
 
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22. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 08:28 Cutter
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 20:22:
Why would this hurt sales? The article mentions straight-out that store services weren't affected. They could sell just fine.

And LittleMe is right - building to peak usage is idiotic. You hit it for a few hours a year. You'd have to be a moron to build out to peak.
And if it was as easy as just leasing more space you'd think Valve, one of the most well run businesses in games, would have thought of it, right?

I swear, some of you armchair CEO to an unbelievable extent. Like, speculating is fine, but sometimes it's "they're such morons for not doing XYZ" as if they didn't consider it and, with significantly more evidence in front of them, choose not to.

Most companies can and do scale up for peak times of year whether its online or brick and motar, extra staff, servers, bandwith, etc. And no it doesn't mean Valve has considered it because they probably don't care. It's more than obvious to anyone who knows anything about the company that they don't do things like everyone else. In some ways it's great, and others it's bad. This is one of the bad. Don't you ever tire of being wrong so often? Stop playing pretend CEO you're not very good at it.
 
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James Woods: Oh that's fun. That sounds like you had a fun time. Where would I fit in with the fun time, huh? Where does James Woods fit into the fun?
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21. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 03:08 Jerykk
 
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:35:
Creston wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:28:
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:19:
If anyone has any info, it would be appreciated. Thanks!

Odds are that he's in an area in which few people have TWC, so few people access the area's backbone, and you are in an area in which everyone has it.

Cable internet is shared internet. The more people that use it, the slower it gets. That said, if it's so congested that your 15Mbps never gets above 1.7 Mbps, TWC really should put more capacity in place. Complain to the better business bureau, and see if that'll help.

Creston

Thanks Creston.

I'm going to call them soon to complain. I'm just gathering information at the moment so that I have the right responses for their excuses. I suspect that they will point me to the speed test websites and then tell me everything is fine when it hits 25 Mbps or they may say it's the websites upload speed that is limiting me to 1.7 Mbps when downloading. I can't understand why all the speed tests give me such high numbers when even torrents are maxed out at 1.5 - 1.7 Mbps.

I've even gone so far as to plug directly into the modem to do tests in order to rule out my CAT6 cables and my router. Same numbers, so it's not my router and cabling.

Torrents are not at all a reliable indicator of bandwidth. Your download speeds depend entirely on the number of seeds and their upload rates. You could have the best connection in the world and still get lousy torrent speeds because there aren't enough seeds and/or their upload rates are too low.

Newsgroups are a much more reliable indicator of download and upload speeds.
 
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20. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 26, 2012, 00:40 Dev
 
And besides, it isn't bandwith that valve is lacking for.
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/

Its load management of what bandwidth they ALREADY HAVE AND ARE PAYING FOR. They are actually WASTING money since lack of adequate load management prevents them from using all of what they already have. Users get errors about no connections available to download when there's still plenty of bandwidth left in their region. Plus the store front end often has errors popping up (in big sales and releases) since the load management for that can't handle all the requests.

Even if they can't adequately serve game downloads (which isn't the case since they always have spare bandwidth in any regions any time I've checked, even during peak sales when I've gotten errors), the store front end should be TOP PRIORITY for having as close to 100% uptime as humanly possible. Thats pretty much the ONLY way they have to get money. If they can't accept orders and process credit cards, they can't get money. They can and DO lose sales over that. Even if the majority of people will come back, some won't. Plus, if its a new customer, would it fill you with confidence to visit an unknown storefront and have it error out multiple times when trying to buy something? You might decide just to hit amazon instead, trust them instead with your credit card, especially when amazon is cheaper.

This comment was edited on Dec 26, 2012, 00:49.
 
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19. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 25, 2012, 23:20 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 20:22:
And if it was as easy as just leasing more space you'd think Valve, one of the most well run businesses in games, would have thought of it, right?

As usual, you are convinced that your beliefs are somehow universal truth, when in fact they are far from it. Clustered servers are easy as shit to expand for concurrent connections and database availability, even if only temporarily. That's the whole point of having a clustered server to begin with. (And if Valve halfway knows what it's doing, all its servers are virtual anyway, so then it's essentially a matter of bringing up a few more virtual boxes.)

As for bandwith, that's easy to increase as well. It typically takes a phonecall to your provider and a few hours for them to add capacity. Doubling my company's bandwith from 100 to 200Mbps literally took an hour. Obviously Valve deals in massively larger bandwith numbers than that, but their ISP isn't stupid either, and will have spare capacity available.

Do I expect Valve to build out for their sales? No. Do I expect them to put some additional capacity in place for their three big sales? I think that's not really too much to ask for something that gives them a BILLION dollars in revenue.

Creston
 
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18. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 25, 2012, 23:14 Creston
 
LittleMe wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 15:41:
Creston wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:02:
As usual, Valve ignores the massive load during Xmas sales and lets everyone try to connect to their hideously overloaded servers...

Building and maintaining infrastructure for peak load times that happen ~1% of the time can be very, very expensive. Do you still want good sales and low prices? Learn to be patient and accept a few outages or slower downloads a few times a year during peak demand.

If you want mission-critical uptime, then expect to pay a lot more.

Yeah, God forbid a company with a billion dollars in revenue put some of that money back into the company, right?

I didn't realize Steam had turned into the electric company...

Creston
 
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17. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 25, 2012, 21:08 Kosumo
 
I swear, some of you armchair CEO to an unbelievable extent.

I wish for it to be know, I'm more a smelly guy riding around the CBD in the free bus using the cities free wi-fi all day CEO, not an armchair one.

Thank you
 
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16. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 25, 2012, 20:22 Beamer
 
Why would this hurt sales? The article mentions straight-out that store services weren't affected. They could sell just fine.

And LittleMe is right - building to peak usage is idiotic. You hit it for a few hours a year. You'd have to be a moron to build out to peak.
And if it was as easy as just leasing more space you'd think Valve, one of the most well run businesses in games, would have thought of it, right?

I swear, some of you armchair CEO to an unbelievable extent. Like, speculating is fine, but sometimes it's "they're such morons for not doing XYZ" as if they didn't consider it and, with significantly more evidence in front of them, choose not to.
 
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15. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 25, 2012, 19:46 Panickd
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 16:24:
LittleMe wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 15:41:
Creston wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:02:
As usual, Valve ignores the massive load during Xmas sales and lets everyone try to connect to their hideously overloaded servers...

Building and maintaining infrastructure for peak load times that happen ~1% of the time can be very, very expensive. Do you still want good sales and low prices? Learn to be patient and accept a few outages or slower downloads a few times a year during peak demand.

If you want mission-critical uptime, then expect to pay a lot more.

And if you're not making sales you're not only not making money, you're losing it. So it's in their own interest to make sure they can handle the peak loads. It's not like this is anything new or unexpected for them, and they can certainly afford leasing some extra bandwith for 2 weeks a few times a year.

Seems to me they're making sales just fine. People piss, moan and complain and then go right back to snapping up the deals as soon as everything is back up. It went down for a bit, only a small fraction of users actually noticed and they got it back up and running again. That seems better than the nearly 12 straight hours of "we're working on it" that Netflix was busy spamming Twitter with yesterday.
 
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14. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 25, 2012, 18:26 Frags4Fun
 
Tom wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 16:27:
Frags4Fun wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 14:19:
Speed tests show that I am getting up to 25 Mbps but I never get those speeds on an actual download. I'm wondering if I'm getting screwed. Also, I've asked relatives who live within an hour of my location and they get the same exact numbers. Perhaps TWC throttles everything except for the speed test websites.

Indeed, those speed tests always show the full speed, yet real world results, like YouTube and game downloads/updates, are dog slow. Yet other people who are lucky enough to be on FiOS get fast speeds on those things. So what does this tell us about TWC? What we already know... they suck. The only thing they're interested in investing in is lobbying to preserve their monopoly status. They still haven't even upgraded to DOCSIS 3 here. Even Charter, arguably the worst ISP in the US, did that years ago.

If I had actually got the speed I'm paying for, the same speed I always get from speed test sites, it would've taken about an hour to download Mass Effect 3 the other day. Instead it took about 10 hours. I believe they are throttling and/or their infrastructure is just garbage.

Thanks for the info Tom. I appreciate the feedback.
 
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13. Re: Christmas Metaverse Dec 25, 2012, 17:41 PHJF
 
My downloads from Columbus, OH went from the normal 1.5-2MB/s to 700KB/s. I don't know if I'd call that a serious issue on Valve's end.

Anyways, during the big download times it's good to set Steam to some crazy server like South Africa or South Korea.
 
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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