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Christmas Legal Briefs

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27 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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27. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 27, 2012, 11:06 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 00:03:
Yeah, people always forget that businesses do things for reasons other than directly making money. It's often about indirectly making money. HBO exists, as you say, to drive subscriptions. It creates TV shows to drive subscriptions. They aren't supposed to make money on their own. Given that it's owned by TW, it likely never will be.

I'm a little late to this conversation, but I picked up HBO the other day as part of a deal that Comcast was running. I didn't know about HBO GO at the time, but basically with it, I'm burning through all the series content I'm interested in, and will probably be done in a month or two. After that, I plan to cancel and then wait a few years for the next special. Rinse, repeat.

In other words, even HBO GO might be a strategic mistake on their part.

I think my type of consumption/use of service supports Beamer's basic argument - HBO doesn't have the amount of content needed to offset a buy (rent) individual items once approach versus a long term subscription. The latter nets them more long term cash, IMHO.

 
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26. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 22:55 jdreyer
 
Beamer and others make good points here. I don't have cable, and don't want it. And I refuse to pirate on principal. I'd pay $10, maybe $15/month for HBO streaming though to watch GoT and other HBO shows. They're leaving money on the table, IMO. So, instead I rent discs from Netflix.  
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25. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 11:42 Beamer
 
The HBO stuff MSRPs for $80 usually, about twice anything else.

And I think there's a strong argument that more HBO show pirates would pay than other pirates. As people, such as The Oatmeal point out, many pirate because it's a choice between paying an enormous amount for cable or pirating.

HBO, though, or rather its parents, want you to pay an enormous amount for cable. Adding a third option, paying a reasonable price to stream, would just push people from cable to streaming, which is what they want to prevent. They'd rather more pirates, with also more cable subscribers, than fewer pirates but fewer cable subscribers.

Old, outdated thinking, perhaps, but it's owned by a cable company, not a content company.
 
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24. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 11:24 nin
 
Creston wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 11:21:
Games of Thrones isn't THAT expensive on DVD/Bluray. It's currently 38 and 46 dollars respectively on Amazon. I'm pretty sure I picked it up for 29 dollars on a sale. The pre-order for the 2nd season is 40 bucks.

Compared to, say, Battlestar Galactica, which happily charged 80 bucks for a season, it's pretty cheap.

Anyway, pirates will never pay for anything, so I'm not sure why it really matters that GoT is the most pirated show. It's not lost revenue, but revenue that never existed.

Creston


I check http://www.blu-ray.com/ several times a day - they do price tracking, and keep a current list of whats on sale.

And most HBO stuff you can get form amazon for around $35 on release week.

 
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23. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 11:21 Creston
 
Games of Thrones isn't THAT expensive on DVD/Bluray. It's currently 38 and 46 dollars respectively on Amazon. I'm pretty sure I picked it up for 29 dollars on a sale. The pre-order for the 2nd season is 40 bucks.

Compared to, say, Battlestar Galactica, which happily charged 80 bucks for a season, it's pretty cheap.

Anyway, pirates will never pay for anything, so I'm not sure why it really matters that GoT is the most pirated show. It's not lost revenue, but revenue that never existed.

Creston
 
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22. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 10:26 Panickd
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 20:19:
Why would they ever cut a deal with Netflix. They're in the subscription service business, not the content service. Anything that threatens to lessen that subscription business is a waste. It may capture lost revenue, but it will almost definitely result in a greater loss of subscriptions. Half the internet sits around going "why doesn't HBO join up with Netflix? I'd totally cancel them and stream what I want to see." That's why they haven't done it.

At some point they'll likely decide that they need to switch, but that time is a ways away. For right now they'd prefer people that have no interest in subscribing keep on either buying DVDs at way too much or pirating, and everyone else sit around complaining about how annoying it is but still paying their $20 per month (or whatever it is these days.)

Piracy is indeed easier and cheaper. But HBO doesn't much care. They aren't here to sell you Game of Thrones. They're here to sell subscriptions to their service.

This is more an HBO thing than a subscription TV thing. Showtime has some of it's shows on Netflix right now and I have no doubt more will show up as time goes on. HBO's leadership has said time and again that they think the whole cord cutting/internet streaming thing is a "fad" that will go away. Seems like a massive gamble to bet the company on to me, but then I suppose they don't care because win or lose I am sure all the top brass at HBO will walk away with lots on money either from bonuses or golden parachute severance packages. So, you know, yay capitalism!
 
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21. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 09:16 Quboid
 
Wallshadows wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 23:19:
I have not seen one episode of GoT legitimately since I don't have HBO.

Am I doing this right?

I think that's very much in the spirit of the show (except the Lannisters, as they always pay their debts). Do you think Littlefinger would pay for his cable? No chance, he'd know a guy who knows a guy who can get you all the channels for free.

Edit: Beamer, I see what you mean. I do remember thinking the GoT S1 Blu-Rays were very expensive.

This comment was edited on Dec 26, 2012, 09:45.
 
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- Quboid
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20. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 06:52 eRe4s3r
 
But when I want to watch HBO stuff here I get the dubbed version, not the original one, and not when it airs in the US. So as a German i have absolutely 0 legal way to watch the original series in a timely (a day at most after air date) manner.  
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19. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 04:15 Scud
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Dec 26, 2012, 03:57:
What about international releases though. Game of Thrones is watched in Europe too (I would say, 50% of viewers are not US citizens) probably more even.

We would gladly pay 1 to 3 per episode to get it in full HD and on air-date in English. It's like time Warner doesn't want to expand its business. I don't get why....

Because they're hoping you'll finally cave in and get a subscription to HBO, they figure they make more money that way. Honestly, I can't see spending 150 to 200 bucks a year just to watch one show which amounts to about 13 episodes or so. So I pirate and or buy the DVD later, and until we get enough people to say screw subscriptions, HBO will keep hammering away at the subscription game.
 
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18. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 03:57 eRe4s3r
 
What about international releases though. Game of Thrones is watched in Europe too (I would say, 50% of viewers are not US citizens) probably more even.

We would gladly pay 1 to 3 per episode to get it in full HD and on air-date in English. It's like time Warner doesn't want to expand its business. I don't get why....
 
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17. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 01:25 necrosis
 
Kitkoan wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 23:27:
This
Punch the grizzly bear in the ass and win a iPad 3!
 
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16. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 26, 2012, 00:03 Beamer
 
Flatline wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 23:35:
Oh please... HBO is owned by Time Warner, who is in the cable business. They have absolutely zero interest in promoting cable cutting, especially as HD cable with a standard decoder box and basic cable is going to set you back 50-60 bucks a month, and usually runs closer to 100 bucks a month. HBO is a loss leader at that point.

The premium channels drive cable subscription, which is where the money is. You'll never see HBO Go on it's own or sensible a la cart charges. That defeats the entire purpose of renting you a cable box and charging you for 400 channels you'll never watch.

Totally forgot it was owned by Time Warner.

Yeah, people always forget that businesses do things for reasons other than directly making money. It's often about indirectly making money. HBO exists, as you say, to drive subscriptions. It creates TV shows to drive subscriptions. They aren't supposed to make money on their own. Given that it's owned by TW, it likely never will be.

You see this all the time. In the eyeglass industry there are two primary companies. One is an insurance company that owns a frame business. One is a frame company that owns an insurance business. The frame company offers eye insurance to sell frames. The insurance company makes frames to sell insurance. They have completely different approaches, and each will make decisions that the other would never make because it prioritizes their core business.
 
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15. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 25, 2012, 23:35 Flatline
 
Oh please... HBO is owned by Time Warner, who is in the cable business. They have absolutely zero interest in promoting cable cutting, especially as HD cable with a standard decoder box and basic cable is going to set you back 50-60 bucks a month, and usually runs closer to 100 bucks a month. HBO is a loss leader at that point.

The premium channels drive cable subscription, which is where the money is. You'll never see HBO Go on it's own or sensible a la cart charges. That defeats the entire purpose of renting you a cable box and charging you for 400 channels you'll never watch.
 
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14. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 25, 2012, 23:27 Kitkoan
 
This  
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*automatically refuses to place horse heads in anyone's bed*
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13. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 25, 2012, 23:19 Wallshadows
 
I have not seen one episode of GoT legitimately since I don't have HBO.

Am I doing this right?
 
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12. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 25, 2012, 22:37 Beamer
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 20:41:
I agree with your general point Beamer, but you contradict yourself twice at the end. They are here to sell us Game of Thrones, via DVD/Blu-Ray. Also, HBO are sure to care because people pirating their content will also cost them subscriptions, albeit on a lesser scale.

It will be interesting when they're forced to change, and I agree they will - I don't think it will be that long. It's mind boggling how content providers are so bad this sort of thing, it seems every anti-piracy measure they attempt encourages piracy by making the paid product ever more unappealing. I appreciate doing deals for legal distribution in 200 countries isn't easy, but things like unskippable anti-piracy warnings - you know who isn't bothered by these? Pirates.

Klaus Flouride: Nice one, your avatar got me

They don't really want to sell us those DVDs and BluRay, though. They're so much more expensive than any other TV show to deter people from buying it. Essentially two HBO seasons equals one year of HBO subscriptions. They want you to look and go "Well, I watch GoT, and whateverothershow, may as well subscribe rather than wait and buy the DVD set for $60 a week before the new season comes out."

And yeah, piracy costs them subscriptions, but not as many as Netflix would.

Really not sure when they'll change. I'm under the impression that their subscriber levels are pretty solid, and they're so dependent upon cable companies that they're not overjoyed to change what works. Obviously it won't work forever, but they've probably got the better part of a decade. And then they'll likely do a subscription based content service like Netflix, only with their own shows and possibly some movies. Basically, what HBO is right now, only you pay them directly rather than ComCast.

I dunno, I'm not convinced we want more monthly fees. Even if they add up to much less than cable does now, people hate constantly telling people "sure, you can have $5 of my monthly paycheck, too. $5 for everyone!"
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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11. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 25, 2012, 20:41 Quboid
 
I agree with your general point Beamer, but you contradict yourself twice at the end. They are here to sell us Game of Thrones, via DVD/Blu-Ray. Also, HBO are sure to care because people pirating their content will also cost them subscriptions, albeit on a lesser scale.

It will be interesting when they're forced to change, and I agree they will - I don't think it will be that long. It's mind boggling how content providers are so bad this sort of thing, it seems every anti-piracy measure they attempt encourages piracy by making the paid product ever more unappealing. I appreciate doing deals for legal distribution in 200 countries isn't easy, but things like unskippable anti-piracy warnings - you know who isn't bothered by these? Pirates.

Klaus Flouride: Nice one, your avatar got me
 
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- Quboid
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10. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 25, 2012, 20:36 Cutter
 
Martin already got his money from me so tough titty.
 
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9. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 25, 2012, 20:19 Beamer
 
Panickd wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 19:34:
Frijoles wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 15:20:
I would _gladly_ pay HBO directly (or Netflix) to get it the same night as Dish/Direct TV/Comcast/etc. I have Netflix, but it takes them several months to get them.

I don't think HBO has ever cut a deal with Netflix (and given their disdain for the online services it seems unlikely they ever will). You either have to buy their shows via iTunes or Amazon's digital video services (provided you're willing to wait for the latest episodes) or you can stream them with HBO Go if you are already paying them for their pay TV services or you can buy their overpriced Blu-ray/DVD copies when they finally decide to release them. Piracy is cheaper, easier and more convenient than any of those options.

Why would they ever cut a deal with Netflix. They're in the subscription service business, not the content service. Anything that threatens to lessen that subscription business is a waste. It may capture lost revenue, but it will almost definitely result in a greater loss of subscriptions. Half the internet sits around going "why doesn't HBO join up with Netflix? I'd totally cancel them and stream what I want to see." That's why they haven't done it.

At some point they'll likely decide that they need to switch, but that time is a ways away. For right now they'd prefer people that have no interest in subscribing keep on either buying DVDs at way too much or pirating, and everyone else sit around complaining about how annoying it is but still paying their $20 per month (or whatever it is these days.)

Piracy is indeed easier and cheaper. But HBO doesn't much care. They aren't here to sell you Game of Thrones. They're here to sell subscriptions to their service.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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8. Re: Christmas Legal Briefs Dec 25, 2012, 19:43 Klaus Flouride
 
dj LiTh wrote on Dec 25, 2012, 17:54:
Also you gotta factor in just how friggin good this show is. Best show on tv easily in quite a while.

It's hard to beat whores, hordes of undead, fire, AND great writing! I am a little disappointed in season two, they left a lot of key stuff out that was in the book. Season one followed the book really closely with only minor differences.
 
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