Beelzebud wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 18:37:
SWTOR didn't fail because people didn't want to pay a subscription. It failed because it just isn't a good game.

The fact that they had such a high population, in the beginning when people bought it knowing there was a monthly fee, sort of debunks the notion that people were unwilling to pay a subscription fee.

Considering that EA/Bioware dropped like 300 million into TOR, I would hardly call it a "money grab". On paper it looked like the perfect formula to make a couple billion dollars over the next 10 years or so, but it obviously didn't turn out that way.

Prez wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 16:36:
I played the game for the free 30 days that came with the game (a friend bought me a key) without restriction and it was pretty terrible. There were hints of Knights of the Old Republic - enough to know that had Bioware made the game that most everyone actually wanted (KoTOR 3) instead of a half-assed WoW clone money grab it could have been awesome. It sucks massivley as a singleplayer game (which is all I was interested in it for) and if the server populations were any indication it isn't much better as an MMO. Despite it generally being considered a flop it probably made most - if not all- of its intitial investment back by now - best to cut their losses now and kill it because this turd is un-polishable.

Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:46:
I'm not sure that I'd go as far as to say that Molyneueeheueenex (and others) are ruining Kickstarter. (I'd be far more inclined to point the finger at guys like the Code Hero developer who no longer posted updates until someone accused him of just taking the money and running, and he finally remembered that he has an obligation to his backers to keep them up to date on what's happening.)

First off, from the looks of it, GODUS won't even make funding, in which case Peter and his promises will just go away again, and maybe he can make another retarded "curiosity" thing or something.

Second, I'm not really sure that there is such a need for everyone to keep worrying over the integrity or purpose of Kickstarter. Whether you feel that a guy like him is justified in using it or not can be easily expressed by your decision to either fund or not to fund. There doesn't need to be a grand dialogue every single time an established developer tries to cut out the publishers and wants to get a game made through crowd sourcing.

After all, where do we draw that line? Peter can't use it, but Obsidian can? Double Fine can? Where is really the difference, other than that Peter can never keep his stupid yap shut and always promises shit that he knows full well he can never deliver? (this may also more aptly be called: Lying.)

I have no problem with Molyeneneeyeususuxuxx using Kickstarter to try to get a game made that no publisher will touch with a ten foot pole. And his campaign has been well though out, with frequent updates and lots of information, unlike several others I have (frequently) mentioned. I just have no confidence that the game will be anything like what he promises, and I have no confidence that 450K GBP can make a game anywhere NEAR like what he thinks. Ergo, Latin, I don't give him any money.

It really doesn't need to be more than that, and all this handwringing over "Oh, won't someone think of the sanctity of Kickstarter!" is really kind of getting stale.

Let's look at it this way: Every game made through Kickstarter is a game for which those fucking parasitic roaches at publishers get ZERO FUCKING DOLLARS. In my opinion, we need hundreds of thousands more games like those. It's our best chance to finally make the publishers either die out, or at least maybe make them realize that the SHIT they've turned the gaming industry into isn't worth sustaining anymore. (And I say this knowing full well that we've just had an incredible year of games behind us.)

Anyway, deep thought mode off.

Creston

Tumbler wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:47:
The Swtor opinions are spot on. I was interested to go explore the game again when it went F2P but then I went looking over the rules and restrictions. It was exhausting. It seemed like more fun to just not play than it did to try and understand what you could do as F2P.

Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 14:18:

Dev wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:49:

Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:46:
Let's look at it this way: Every game made through Kickstarter is a game for which those fucking parasitic roaches at publishers get ZERO FUCKING DOLLARS.

Aside from games that use kickstarter funds to make a pitch demo to get publisher funding. Or to show publishers that there's still interest so they fund more.

Fair enough. I'd never donate to projects like those, but I guess they are out there.

Creston

Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 14:25:

nin wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:52:

After all, where do we draw that line? Peter can't use it, but Obsidian can? Double Fine can? Where is really the difference, other than that Peter can never keep his stupid yap shut and always promises shit that he knows full well he can never deliver? (this may also more aptly be called: Lying.)

While I don't have numbers to back it up, I always assumed Peter's games were (generally) more successful than the other two. As such, I would expect him to be able to part with 700K (rough conversion) and fund it himself before the other two would (though DF might be able to do this also. But considering they were due for layoffs right before before their KS success, maybe not).

I think FO:NV sold about as much as the best Fable did.

Creston

Tumbler wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:47:
The Swtor opinions are spot on. I was interested to go explore the game again when it went F2P but then I went looking over the rules and restrictions. It was exhausting. It seemed like more fun to just not play than it did to try and understand what you could do as F2P.

nin wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:52:

After all, where do we draw that line? Peter can't use it, but Obsidian can? Double Fine can? Where is really the difference, other than that Peter can never keep his stupid yap shut and always promises shit that he knows full well he can never deliver? (this may also more aptly be called: Lying.)

While I don't have numbers to back it up, I always assumed Peter's games were (generally) more successful than the other two. As such, I would expect him to be able to part with 700K (rough conversion) and fund it himself before the other two would (though DF might be able to do this also. But considering they were due for layoffs right before before their KS success, maybe not).

Dev wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:49:

Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:46:
Let's look at it this way: Every game made through Kickstarter is a game for which those fucking parasitic roaches at publishers get ZERO FUCKING DOLLARS.

Aside from games that use kickstarter funds to make a pitch demo to get publisher funding. Or to show publishers that there's still interest so they fund more.

After all, where do we draw that line? Peter can't use it, but Obsidian can? Double Fine can? Where is really the difference, other than that Peter can never keep his stupid yap shut and always promises shit that he knows full well he can never deliver? (this may also more aptly be called: Lying.)

Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:46:
Let's look at it this way: Every game made through Kickstarter is a game for which those fucking parasitic roaches at publishers get ZERO FUCKING DOLLARS.