Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Op Ed

Gamasutra - The Burning of Star Wars: The Old Republic.
BioWare plainly went the wrong way with SWTOR. You don't have to go any further than the comments about how special and important subscribers are and how BioWare wants subscribers to feel special, even in the F2P environment. F2P is clearly just a demo; it's just that BioWare is changing the limit from "level cap 15" (the old trial, which also doesn't work) and instead applying every form of hindrance and impairment it can come up with, putting the Handicapper Generals to shame.

One has to question whether this makes any sense at all. The game was failing because people didn't want to pay for subscriptions. The choice was paying subscriptions or not playing at all, and people were choosing "not at all" over subs. How, then, does replacing "not at all" with "kneecapped" change things? How does that help net new subscribers, and how does that help keep existing subscribers?

Eurogamer.net - Are the rich old men ruining Kickstarter?
None of this has sat well with me. Maybe these rich old men can't afford to fund the development of their dream projects out of their own pocket - I don't know - but if they can't convince publishers and actual investors to fund them then I think they have to look at themselves and ask why, not look to us. Not to pick on Peter Molyneux, but I can think of plenty of reasons why no publisher or investor would bankroll one of his games without any kind of creative control, which is what £250k's worth of your money is currently promising to do.

To be fair, at least you can log in today. Perhaps the worst thing about this situation, however, is that it is confusing people about what Kickstarter actually represents. When I look at the names of these grandee developers, and I think back not just on the games they have produced but also the things they have said about them before release, my first reaction as a potential backer isn't to lick my lips at the concept artwork and drink in the product pitch - it's to consult the Kickstarter Terms of Use to see what recourse I might have if I end up disappointed for one reason or another.

View
64 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 ] Older >

24. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 20:36 s1mon75
 
Beelzebud wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 18:37:
SWTOR didn't fail because people didn't want to pay a subscription. It failed because it just isn't a good game.

The fact that they had such a high population, in the beginning when people bought it knowing there was a monthly fee, sort of debunks the notion that people were unwilling to pay a subscription fee.

This. A lot of us had up to 8 years of Wow and we want something new. Yet we got a bloody lame attempt at a clone.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
23. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 20:01 Prez
 

Considering that EA/Bioware dropped like 300 million into TOR, I would hardly call it a "money grab". On paper it looked like the perfect formula to make a couple billion dollars over the next 10 years or so, but it obviously didn't turn out that way.

Well it seems more a money grab to me because they spent all that money and it still ended up a WoW clone instead of something innovative. Having every last line of dialog voiced was neat, I guess, but it was hardly innovative and sucked up a huge chunk of that budget.

I would also add that each yearly iteration of Call of Duty has a pretty huge budget but the general consesnsus seems to be they are cash grabs.

This comment was edited on Dec 15, 2012, 20:08.
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
22. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 19:36 Flatline
 
Prez wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 16:36:
I played the game for the free 30 days that came with the game (a friend bought me a key) without restriction and it was pretty terrible. There were hints of Knights of the Old Republic - enough to know that had Bioware made the game that most everyone actually wanted (KoTOR 3) instead of a half-assed WoW clone money grab it could have been awesome. It sucks massivley as a singleplayer game (which is all I was interested in it for) and if the server populations were any indication it isn't much better as an MMO. Despite it generally being considered a flop it probably made most - if not all- of its intitial investment back by now - best to cut their losses now and kill it because this turd is un-polishable.

Considering that EA/Bioware dropped like 300 million into TOR, I would hardly call it a "money grab". On paper it looked like the perfect formula to make a couple billion dollars over the next 10 years or so, but it obviously didn't turn out that way.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
21. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 18:37 Beelzebud
 
SWTOR didn't fail because people didn't want to pay a subscription. It failed because it just isn't a good game.

The fact that they had such a high population, in the beginning when people bought it knowing there was a monthly fee, sort of debunks the notion that people were unwilling to pay a subscription fee.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
20. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 17:30 wtf_man
 
Goddus will get funded... even if Molyneux has to kick in the difference to get the 400k (or whatever) that ends up getting pledged.

SWTOR... Bioware sold out to EA... Mythic morons involved with PvP planning... modified an incomplete MMO engine... All equals train-wreck disaster. 'nuff said.

At least Zenimax was smart enough to only use the Hero Engine as a "prototype tool", while building their own engine. - Not that I have high expectations for TES Online either... but at least they won't be using the same shitty engine Bioware did.
 
Avatar 19499
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
19. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 16:52 Prez
 
Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:46:
I'm not sure that I'd go as far as to say that Molyneueeheueenex (and others) are ruining Kickstarter. (I'd be far more inclined to point the finger at guys like the Code Hero developer who no longer posted updates until someone accused him of just taking the money and running, and he finally remembered that he has an obligation to his backers to keep them up to date on what's happening.)

First off, from the looks of it, GODUS won't even make funding, in which case Peter and his promises will just go away again, and maybe he can make another retarded "curiosity" thing or something.

Second, I'm not really sure that there is such a need for everyone to keep worrying over the integrity or purpose of Kickstarter. Whether you feel that a guy like him is justified in using it or not can be easily expressed by your decision to either fund or not to fund. There doesn't need to be a grand dialogue every single time an established developer tries to cut out the publishers and wants to get a game made through crowd sourcing.

After all, where do we draw that line? Peter can't use it, but Obsidian can? Double Fine can? Where is really the difference, other than that Peter can never keep his stupid yap shut and always promises shit that he knows full well he can never deliver? (this may also more aptly be called: Lying.)

I have no problem with Molyeneneeyeususuxuxx using Kickstarter to try to get a game made that no publisher will touch with a ten foot pole. And his campaign has been well though out, with frequent updates and lots of information, unlike several others I have (frequently) mentioned. I just have no confidence that the game will be anything like what he promises, and I have no confidence that 450K GBP can make a game anywhere NEAR like what he thinks. Ergo, Latin, I don't give him any money.

It really doesn't need to be more than that, and all this handwringing over "Oh, won't someone think of the sanctity of Kickstarter!" is really kind of getting stale.

Let's look at it this way: Every game made through Kickstarter is a game for which those fucking parasitic roaches at publishers get ZERO FUCKING DOLLARS. In my opinion, we need hundreds of thousands more games like those. It's our best chance to finally make the publishers either die out, or at least maybe make them realize that the SHIT they've turned the gaming industry into isn't worth sustaining anymore. (And I say this knowing full well that we've just had an incredible year of games behind us.)

Anyway, deep thought mode off.

Creston

Worship
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
18. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 16:36 Prez
 
I played the game for the free 30 days that came with the game (a friend bought me a key) without restriction and it was pretty terrible. There were hints of Knights of the Old Republic - enough to know that had Bioware made the game that most everyone actually wanted (KoTOR 3) instead of a half-assed WoW clone money grab it could have been awesome. It sucks massivley as a singleplayer game (which is all I was interested in it for) and if the server populations were any indication it isn't much better as an MMO. Despite it generally being considered a flop it probably made most - if not all- of its intitial investment back by now - best to cut their losses now and kill it because this turd is un-polishable.  
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
17. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 16:09 Julio
 
I don't care who uses Kickstarter. Its all about getting funding from the world from whatever you want to sell. Everyone funding takes a risk, for a future reward.

Sometimes a kickstarter will get delivered, sometimes the person you gave the money to runs off with it. Actually when I think about it, kickstarter is a better deal than politicians give. They always take your money and run.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
16. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 15:54 Leper
 
Tumbler wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:47:
The Swtor opinions are spot on. I was interested to go explore the game again when it went F2P but then I went looking over the rules and restrictions. It was exhausting. It seemed like more fun to just not play than it did to try and understand what you could do as F2P.

What I did is just start playing and try to ignore all the pay stuff. Trying to understand all that up-front is impossible, but the game reminds you about it when you're playing. Somewhat annoying, but I don't feel like I'm missing that much by not paying, at least not yet. The game itself is not bad for being free. Quite a bit of content, but it is the standard WoW model that is starting to be a bit of grind.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
15. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 15:42 killer_roach
 
Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 14:18:
Dev wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:49:
Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:46:
Let's look at it this way: Every game made through Kickstarter is a game for which those fucking parasitic roaches at publishers get ZERO FUCKING DOLLARS.
Aside from games that use kickstarter funds to make a pitch demo to get publisher funding. Or to show publishers that there's still interest so they fund more.

Fair enough. I'd never donate to projects like those, but I guess they are out there.

Creston

I know at least one project I backed ended up later securing publisher funding, but I wasn't deluding myself into thinking that the game would've been done on the budget that they were asking (they're still running betas, and have admitted that they ran out of their KS money months ago).
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
14. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 15:41 NKD
 
Kickstarter and similar platforms are really the ONLY solution for many situations, even in the case of already established companies looking to start a project that they can't get money for anywhere else.

Trying to be elitist about who can use it and who cant defeats the entire purpose. That's why Kickstarter's rules are very simple and are mostly legal ass-covering.
 
Avatar 43041
 
If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
13. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 15:31 nin
 
Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 14:25:
nin wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:52:
After all, where do we draw that line? Peter can't use it, but Obsidian can? Double Fine can? Where is really the difference, other than that Peter can never keep his stupid yap shut and always promises shit that he knows full well he can never deliver? (this may also more aptly be called: Lying.)

While I don't have numbers to back it up, I always assumed Peter's games were (generally) more successful than the other two. As such, I would expect him to be able to part with 700K (rough conversion) and fund it himself before the other two would (though DF might be able to do this also. But considering they were due for layoffs right before before their KS success, maybe not).


I think FO:NV sold about as much as the best Fable did.

Creston


Yeah, but I would say thats the exception to the norm for obsidian.

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
12. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 15:00 jdreyer
 
I was going to go on a huge rant, but Creston pretty much summed up what I was going to say. Look, only the really informed or really stupid are going to contribute to a kickstarter. In the former case, people are going to carefully assess and only fund things that have a reasonable chance to get made by a reasonable team. In the latter case, well, Thomas Tusser said it best.

In the case of Godus (or Project Eternity, or Star Citizen, or Defense Grid 2, or Planetary Annihilation, etc. etc.), this is a game without big publisher appeal. However, if someone can use the KS buzz to get partial funding, create buzz, get noticed, and show and interest, more funding will be forthcoming. A God sim is unlikely to be funded by a publisher otherwise. I guess it all comes down to whether people believe he can deliver, and if they do then he'll get his funding. If not, (and by his failure thus far, a lot of people know he likes to talk out of his ass) then no harm, no foul, no problem.
 
Avatar 22024
 
"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
11. Re: More Big Picture Details Dec 15, 2012, 14:31 HorrorScope
 
Tumbler wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:47:
The Swtor opinions are spot on. I was interested to go explore the game again when it went F2P but then I went looking over the rules and restrictions. It was exhausting. It seemed like more fun to just not play than it did to try and understand what you could do as F2P.

I looked at it as I can now try it without paying anything upfront. If I liked it I'd sub. Reading most comments this is a one or two month game anyway. So if I were to like it $15 to $30 for a couple months. No big. The FTP was confusing and limited, but the win for me was no charge upfront to try.
 
Avatar 17232
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
10. Re: More Big Picture Details Dec 15, 2012, 14:28 HorrorScope
 
I honestly prefer free to try, then with a sub if you want to continue on.

That beats:
Standard (Buy and Sub) And face it everything has a cash shop to some extent now. The nut is upfront buying for something that will probably feel stale.

BtP (Buy and no sub) Again the nut with having to buy it to find out... And once again the cash shop, since there is no sub they try to push you that way.

FtP (Free) Usually total crap, but heavily rigged for you to use the cash shop. You do get to try before you buy, about the only thing good here, and since it's rigged to the cash shop and most are asian, it's a real shot in the dark.

So what is this then?
FtS (Free to Sub)

Why I like this better, there is no cost upfront to see if I like it, if there is any redeeming quality I'll get around to trying it. Then in the off chance I like it, then it's ~$15/mo for gaming, which is dirt cheap. It also doesn't have to hamper you like FtP does since there is a revenue stream. I'd really prefer a FtS with no cash shop, then there is no reason to hold back on anything. If one had to exist, truly a cosmetic only cash shop period, not mostly and then sneak in things like XP boosts.
 
Avatar 17232
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
9. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 14:25 Creston
 
nin wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:52:
After all, where do we draw that line? Peter can't use it, but Obsidian can? Double Fine can? Where is really the difference, other than that Peter can never keep his stupid yap shut and always promises shit that he knows full well he can never deliver? (this may also more aptly be called: Lying.)

While I don't have numbers to back it up, I always assumed Peter's games were (generally) more successful than the other two. As such, I would expect him to be able to part with 700K (rough conversion) and fund it himself before the other two would (though DF might be able to do this also. But considering they were due for layoffs right before before their KS success, maybe not).


I think FO:NV sold about as much as the best Fable did.

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
8. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 14:18 Creston
 
Dev wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:49:
Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:46:
Let's look at it this way: Every game made through Kickstarter is a game for which those fucking parasitic roaches at publishers get ZERO FUCKING DOLLARS.
Aside from games that use kickstarter funds to make a pitch demo to get publisher funding. Or to show publishers that there's still interest so they fund more.

Fair enough. I'd never donate to projects like those, but I guess they are out there.

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
7. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 14:13 Silicon Avatar
 
I dunno. I thought Star Trek Online was pretty fun. It might not have been the best Star Trek game ever or the best MMO ever but it had its moments and some of the missions were good - and improvements are still being made. I still crank it up sometimes and am thinking about doing so again for the Christmas event.

 
Avatar 18037
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
6. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 13:52 nin
 
After all, where do we draw that line? Peter can't use it, but Obsidian can? Double Fine can? Where is really the difference, other than that Peter can never keep his stupid yap shut and always promises shit that he knows full well he can never deliver? (this may also more aptly be called: Lying.)

While I don't have numbers to back it up, I always assumed Peter's games were (generally) more successful than the other two. As such, I would expect him to be able to part with 700K (rough conversion) and fund it himself before the other two would (though DF might be able to do this also. But considering they were due for layoffs right before before their KS success, maybe not).

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
5. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2012, 13:49 Dev
 
Creston wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 13:46:
Let's look at it this way: Every game made through Kickstarter is a game for which those fucking parasitic roaches at publishers get ZERO FUCKING DOLLARS.
Aside from games that use kickstarter funds to make a pitch demo to get publisher funding. Or to show publishers that there's still interest so they fund more.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
64 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 ] Older >


footer

.. .. ..

Blue's News logo