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57 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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37. Re: This Dec 16, 2012, 00:05 Dades
 
Prez wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 15:28:
That's all I am going to say about this because of course I will be called wrong by all of the internet know-it-alls who find things like this an opportunity to prove how brilliant they are (and maybe push an agenda or two) instead of showing a fucking shred of humanity.

Or maybe some of those people have a point that media attention does not explain all mass shootings and that it is impossible to stop world wide media coverage in this day and age. The way news is created and propogated negates the idea. It is literally impossible to the point where it is a waste of time even trying to implement something like it. News now spreads faster than humans can actually create it, think about that for a moment before responding. Anyone can have their 15 minutes of fame, that's the day and age we live in.

There probably is no solution in a world where a sick person can obtain a firearm and has intent to harm others. It is a large world with many different types of people, we don't like to admit it but tragedies are an unfortunate statistical anomaly if look at it in a big picture way. It sucks but so does the world. We love to think we can fix everything but the only real way to do that is through stricter controls and better societal support mechanisms that most people in North America do not want except in these rare post-tragedy moments.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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36. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 23:10 Prez
 
The fit you're describing tends to happen with lower functioning Autistics due to the aforementioned issues. Aspergers is high functioning autism. Most people with Aspergers end up with university degrees and/or are in the genius IQ range.

I only met the kid twice but he definitely seems to be more in the "lower functioning" group you mentioned. I couldn't see this kid being able to successfully fire a gun at all much less plan something like this incident in CT, so that definitely supports what you are saying. I honestly couldn't tell you exactly what goes into the diagnosis process here in the US, but I have read some the materials she has compiled about the rising misdiagnosis of Autism in modern medicine, and it is a bit worrying. Anyway, most likely the sensationalist media got it wrong again. They have long since abandoned worrying about their reporting being correct as long as it is "first".
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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35. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 22:59 Lesaonar
 
Prez wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 22:17:
Kudos to you for your work with Autistics! Speaking strictly about Autism, a friend of ours has an "Autistic" son who the state just took custody of by court order because in a violent fit he put his mom and one of her house guests in the hospital and it was ruled that he is a danger to himself and others and that she can't control him.. These fits of his have been very common throughout his, but he is 17 now and a pretty big kid. You'll notice I put "Autistic" in quotes because what this woman has learned is that in recent years it has come to the attention of many medical groups that Autism is quickly becoming one of the most misdiagnosed mental disabilities in the field of mental health. So, while you may very well be correct in saying that true Autism is not generally associated with violent or sociopathic behavior, it is very possible that a person who has been diagnosed with autism could easily display these traits simply because it was an incomplete or incorrect diagnosis. Also, it isn't like the news media ever vets anything like this before they just throw it out there for public consumption.

All special needs kids have the ability to have "fits" like that. It's not specific to the autism spectrum. The fit that you're talking about is not something that is planned (collecting guns and going to a school). It's something that happens due to varying factors (frustration, illness, over stimulation etc.), but it's always immediate and the focus is always on one or 2 people. But you'll never find a single psychologist or pychiatrist that will give an Autistic a diagnosis of sociopath. It also depends where on the spectrum a child, or adult, is. The fit you're describing tends to happen with lower functioning Autistics due to the aforementioned issues. Aspergers is high functioning autism. Most people with Aspergers end up with university degrees and/or are in the genius IQ range.
Mental health professionals shouldn't be diagnosing Autism either, perhaps that's the problem in the states. Up here in Canada it is a team based approach with both mental health professionals (psychologists, psychiatrists, behavioural consultants and psychiatric nurses) as well as medical specialists and the family GP. From what I know, from meeting with the broad range of health professionals, that it's actually the opposite. A lot of Autistics, especially those that would fall into Aspergers category, tend to be misdiagnosed with a variety of mental illnesses. But these tend to be those that are higher functioning. When I was a teenager, 30 years ago, a lot of higher functioning Autistics were diagnosed with ADD/ADHD due to certain aspects of Autism being very similar to ADD/ADHD. Those kids never improved due to misdiagnosis and a good majority of them ended up living in mental health institutions. That's one of the issues with Autism, it's a spectrum disorder.

The news media is nothing more than sensationalism for profit especially in situations like this. Did you even read the article that Blue linked? Their business is to sell news and over the last 10yrs that means sensationalism. A perfect example is "bathsalts zombie". If they called it for what it was, a drug overdose, people would'nt even bother to read it. These school shootings are no different.
 
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34. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 22:24 jdreyer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 19:53:
jdreyer wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 17:04:

And yet, here it is, the day of the shooting.
That was in response to Frum's bout of crazy incase you missed it. The bodies weren't even cold and he was trying his very best to score political points.

Frum was being obviously sarcastic. Charlie was replying with a serious proposal. The solution on the right to gun violence is always more guns.
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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33. Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2012, 22:18 Orphic Resonance
 
you think the news media is going to avoid sensationalism because "its the right thing to do"? are you fucking kidding? just like they "do the right thing" when it comes to war crimes, politics, imperialism and all the rest?

its about MONEY kids, ratings, hits, likes, attention... whatever gets people to watch gives the networks more potential ad revenue

how many times will this have to happen until people understand that? the answer is that it will keep happening forever, because humanity is unable to move beyond it and get their priorities in order.. it will happen until there is no one left to die anymore, because no one will still be alive

cynical, yes - but accurate according all the data at hand in the past century of broadcast journalism
 
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32. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 22:17 Prez
 
My son's autistic and I work with 10+ autistic children, and have worked with hundreds of Autistics over my career, and not a single one of them showed sociopathic behavior. Perhaps you should actually do more study than wiki when attempting to sound intelligent, something you completely failed at.

Kudos to you for your work with Autistics! Speaking strictly about Autism, a friend of ours has an "Autistic" son who the state just took custody of by court order because in a violent fit he put his mom and one of her house guests in the hospital and it was ruled that he is a danger to himself and others and that she can't control him.. These fits of his have been very common throughout his, but he is 17 now and a pretty big kid. You'll notice I put "Autistic" in quotes because what this woman has learned is that in recent years it has come to the attention of many medical groups that Autism is quickly becoming one of the most misdiagnosed mental disabilities in the field of mental health. So, while you may very well be correct in saying that true Autism is not generally associated with violent or sociopathic behavior, it is very possible that a person who has been diagnosed with autism could easily display these traits simply because it was an incomplete or incorrect diagnosis. Also, it isn't like the news media ever vets anything like this before they just throw it out there for public consumption.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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31. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 22:08 Lesaonar
 
Read up!

I don't need to read wiki to know it's bs. And nowhere in that wiki article does it state that Autistics are void of empathy. You do know what a theory is right? Theory &#8800; fact. 1 shooter with Aspergers (which is part of the autistim spectrum disorder) and you somehow find correlation to insinuate there's been a "rash of young men in their 20s causing this violence and they all seem to have some sort of autism." And then attempt to use a wiki article that doesn't even back your asinine assertion.

My son's autistic and I work with 10+ autistic children, and have worked with hundreds of Autistics over my career, and not a single one of them showed sociopathic behaviour. Perhaps you should actually do more study than wiki when attempting to sound intelligent, something you completely failed at.
 
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30. Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2012, 22:07 Cutter
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 21:23:
Sadly it also never ceases to amaze that only after a tragedy does there seem to be no shortage of resources available to those need it when if they were there to begin with its very possible the event would have never occurred to begin with.

They have an all call. Everyone from the County and sometimes surrounding Counties come. Also people get paged at home. You are probably seeing 80% of their TOTAL resources at a SINGLE EVENT. In reality, only about 15% of resrouces are on the street at any given time.

The schools need to secure the schools. They are the only ones responsible. Hell, they don't even know how he got in....scary. I bet any one of us could walk right into a "secure" school at any given time. I routinley walk around the schools in my area (when I work days) and find open doors, kids proping doors, etc.

I dont have answers, but the schools need to be more secure. That is step 1. There needs to be cops in school. That is step 2. The rest will fall into place after that. You have a school in your city? Then you need to pay for a FT police officer at your school. Some of our schools have 2, and that still isnt enough for those schools....

When I said resources I meant in regard to mental health, counselors, psychiatrists, etc. There's no shortage of people out that desperately need it and can't get it. As to turning schools into virtual prisons, that's insane. Many of them are already in the US with locked doors, cameras, metal detectors, security, etc. Where else in the world do you see this? It's insane! America has always had a pervasive culture of fear and it's a huge part of the problem. No, just moving that further in that direction helps nothing and will only make things worse.

It's time to take it in the other direction. Strengthen guns laws that promote responsible ownership, vastly stiffer fines and jail terms for the irresponsible and those in illegal possession. Get the money into mental healthcare. End the war on drugs and start a real war on poverty. There's a million things that can be done, and for the most part they work quite well in most other nations.
 
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29. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 21:41 jimnms
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 17:04:
nin wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 16:37:
The idea of teachers carrying in the classroom just boggles the mind...

And yet, here it is, the day of the shooting.

Schools these days are already more prison like than when I was in high school, so I wouldn't want to see armed guards in schools or teachers being trained to use carry guns in the classroom. However, if a teacher has a permit to legally carry, I don't see a problem in allowing that teacher to carry a concealed weapon at school. Remember the Pearl, MS shooting? After shooting up the high school, the shooter planned to drive to the Jr. High while the police were busy responding to the High School. The assistant principal ran out to his truck and got his pistol and stopped the shooter before he could leave. The shooting got lots of coverage by mass media networks, but it was only mentioned a few times about how an armed assistant principal stopped it before police showed up.
 
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2012, 21:23 xXBatmanXx
 
Sadly it also never ceases to amaze that only after a tragedy does there seem to be no shortage of resources available to those need it when if they were there to begin with its very possible the event would have never occurred to begin with.

They have an all call. Everyone from the County and sometimes surrounding Counties come. Also people get paged at home. You are probably seeing 80% of their TOTAL resources at a SINGLE EVENT. In reality, only about 15% of resrouces are on the street at any given time.

The schools need to secure the schools. They are the only ones responsible. Hell, they don't even know how he got in....scary. I bet any one of us could walk right into a "secure" school at any given time. I routinley walk around the schools in my area (when I work days) and find open doors, kids proping doors, etc.

I dont have answers, but the schools need to be more secure. That is step 1. There needs to be cops in school. That is step 2. The rest will fall into place after that. You have a school in your city? Then you need to pay for a FT police officer at your school. Some of our schools have 2, and that still isnt enough for those schools....
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2012, 21:18 xXBatmanXx
 
Black Ops 2 update is out. Nerfs lots of stuff, but most important, kill confirmed is now avail in Hardcore mode. It is also double xp weekend. I gained 20 levels in about 2 hours in kill confirmed, getting 30-50k a round. Insane.  
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2012, 21:17 Cutter
 
There's always the issue of mental health in these tragedies. This is people lashing out looking to make others feel their pain and anger. We all have our breaking point. I don't agree with that Forbes article at all, except that media needs to be a hell of a lot more responsible and be held much more accountable in general. Just look at that kid's brother when he was arrested yesterday. The media could have gotten him killed! That was the height of irresponsibility on the part of law enforcement and the media both to endanger that young man like that.

Sadly it also never ceases to amaze that only after a tragedy does there seem to be no shortage of resources available to those need it when if they were there to begin with its very possible the event would have never occurred to begin with.
 
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"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
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25. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 21:14 xXBatmanXx
 
Prez wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 20:11:
I am still getting the occasional Myspace hijack when I click on Bluesnews but only on my tablet. Anyone else?

yes
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
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24. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 20:11 Prez
 
I am still getting the occasional Myspace hijack when I click on Bluesnews but only on my tablet. Anyone else?  
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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23. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 19:53 Mashiki Amiketo
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 17:04:

And yet, here it is, the day of the shooting.
That was in response to Frum's bout of crazy incase you missed it. The bodies weren't even cold and he was trying his very best to score political points.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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22. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 19:33 Quboid
 
Orogogus wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 15:41:
Prez wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 15:28:
That's all I am going to say about this because of course I will be called wrong by all of the internet know-it-alls who find things like this an opportunity to prove how brilliant they are (and maybe push an agenda or two) instead of showing a fucking shred of humanity.

Classy. Guess we're closed for discussion, then.

I think he had me in mind there, after yesterday's OotB when I accused him of not being open to debate because he'd taken an ideological stand-point (i.e. was pushing an agenda). I suspect the irony wasn't intended.

He implied no one sensible could disagree with him and when I called him out, he said *I* wasn't open to debate because I was attacking him - which was true, because that's all he'd left.

And today, he does exactly the same things. Now, as well as lacking sense, anyone who disagrees lacks humanity - and are an Internet know-it-all, which sounds like he's attacking people and, I suspect, passive-aggressively attacking me, but that may be a "bullshit assumption".
 
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- Quboid
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21. Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2012, 17:36 xXBatmanXx
 
Crap - my picks!
Been working a ton, sometimes get behind on this stuff....

Thus game: Didn't even watch it, but had it picked as CIN as 90%+ of the nation also had them picked, not a big deal. (All picks at Beat The Insiders).

Lots of upset picks this week - shit gets weird right before the playoffs. My fantasy teams are dead, and my home team is hanging by a thread - this is when I turn to other teams to watch great football, but have lost a fair amount of caring for the last few weeks....

CHI (upset), IND (upset, but HOU doesn't need another win, may bench players), DEN, MIA (throw away game), WASH (needs a win), TB, NYG, SEA, CAR, DET, OAK, PIT, SF, TEN.

SO many weird games and not knowing how each team will do when they only have two to six wins. Either I am going ot kill it this week, or only get four wins.....

I am currently 131-78, right up there with the pundits and actually do better than 80% of them.
 
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2012, 17:19 DrClown
 
I read somewhere that this dude couldn't feel pain. I wonder if that makes it harder to empathize.  
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18. Re: This Dec 15, 2012, 17:04 jdreyer
 
nin wrote on Dec 15, 2012, 16:37:
The idea of teachers carrying in the classroom just boggles the mind...


And yet, here it is, the day of the shooting.
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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