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Morning Consolidation

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71. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 23:33 Dades
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 16:22:
Maybe I should clarify my position.The gist of my post, that this community (again, not every member and probably every community) can be childish and hypocritical, does, I believe, still stand.

Maybe you should just be quiet for a change and let other people's posts speak for themselves. Everyone is quite capable and can make up their own minds in who is being hypocritical or childish without your penetrating insights into the minds of forum posters on the internet.

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70. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 20:02 Quboid
 
Prez wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 19:32:
I find it strange that you would consider picking the one part of your post that summed up your (wrong) sentiment for brevity's sake as somehow being deliberately misleading. That's just weird. I don't like quoting walls of text, especially when the very basis of the post was so factually incorrect. I was not being "deliberately dishonest", nor was I trying to pick on you.

I can understand that, I don't like quoting walls of text either. However, you focussed on how well received PvZ was as if this proved me wrong when I had already explained that. You should trim quoted text to clarify what you're responding to and by removing my comments on PvZ, you didn't do that.

Here's what you implied:
Q: I thought people didn't like PopCap.
P: But what about PvZ, people liked that.

Here's what was actually said:
Q: I thought people didn't like PopCap, except PvZ.
P: But what about PvZ, people liked that.

The later doesn't make sense. The former does, and would make a good point if that had been what I said and someone skimming through the thread would think it was. This is why I think it is misleading. Deliberately so? Well, I've been on the Internet long enough to know that a great many people would rather distort others' points of view than admit to themselves that they're wrong - perhaps that's a statement which you think is highly ironic right now!

I believe a great many people on the Internet would read half my post, put up an angry reply and then realise that their reply was rendered moot by the 2nd half and adjust their view of my post to fit their preconceived notion. Only you know if it was deliberate or not, but if it wasn't you need to be more careful about how you prune quoted text and don't trim comments directly relating to what you're posting about, i.e. Plants versus Zombies.

Edit: I see you've tweaked your comment. I did think it was misrepresentative so I appreciate that. I was wrong with regard to accusing others on this thread of basically pretending PopCap was at war with EA, and siding with them just because they're not EA and I apologise again for that. I don't think I was way off base, there was a strong dislike of casual gaming and I think PopCap was generally unpopular, probably with people who had never played any of their games.

Wrong? Yes. Way off base? No. Semantics? Yes!

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 2012, 20:21.
 
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69. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 19:32 Prez
 
I find it strange that you would consider picking the one part of your post that summed up your (wrong) sentiment for brevity's sake as somehow being deliberately misleading. That's just weird. I don't like quoting walls of text, especially when the very basis of the post was so factually incorrect. I was not being "deliberately dishonest", nor was I trying to pick on you. If you feel like my method of quoting was misrepresentative of your point I apologize.

I still think you were WAY off base though.

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 2012, 19:40.
 
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68. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 18:28 Quboid
 
Prez wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 18:16:
I didn't quote your whole douche post because it was stupid. Get it now?

You can't make some blanket (false) statement about everyone being haters of Popcap then preclude the most compelling evidence to the contrary by labeling it as an exception. It doesn't work that way, sorry.

I didn't.

You can't call me out making a point I made. If you thought it was stupid and douchey, fine, but that doesn't excuse being deliberately misleading. You're entitled to dislike and disagree with my post and you're entitled to post criticism. You're entitled to post criticism of how I mention the exception, but to deliberately remove it and criticise me as if it never existed is dishonest.

...

Right, new post. Ignore all my previous ones, this is what I really think:

PopCap are awful and we all - ALL! - think they are awful. Anyone who suggests otherwise is lying, because they are at heart awful, awful people who all - ALL! - enjoy punching babies and kicking kittens. Everything's awful.

Now you can argue against what I actually posted, rather than what it would have been handy for you for me to have posted.
 
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67. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 18:16 Prez
 
I didn't quote your whole douche post because it was stupid. Get it now?

You can't make some blanket (false) statement about everyone being haters of Popcap then preclude use of the most compelling evidence to the contrary by labeling it as an exception. It doesn't work that way, sorry.
 
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66. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 17:51 Quboid
 
I didn't conveniently exclude it, I was being balanced by acknowledging a game that didn't suit my point. I did think before I typed, I thought that to be fair the community seemed to like that odd Tower Defence game of theirs. Not going to the extreme doesn't render my point moot.

You were trying to be nice by misrepresenting me and then having the nerve to say I was being revisionist? I shudder to think of what you're like what you're not trying to be nice. You should have said then that you felt my point was moot; you're being a lot nicer by saying that I looked like I was trolling.

I'm getting criticised for going to the extreme (labelling all as PopCap haters, which I didn't) and I'm getting criticised for not going to the extreme, for acknowledging that there's a grey area.
 
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65. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 17:08 Prez
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 15:14:
Prez wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 08:05:
The PopCap I am familiar with were hated here

I can't remember a single Blues poster saying that they didn't love Plants versus Zombies. I really don't remember anyone even bagging on Peggle, as simple as it is. I think you might have been partaking in some revisionist history. PvZ was almost universally praised here from its release. I know I was hopelessly addicted to it for weeks.

I ... you ... what?

I said that about PvZ.

You quoted me saying that about PvZ.

Then you removed from the quote me saying that about PvZ, and are now saying what I said (and you removed) as evidence that I'm wrong.

Then you say I'm being revisionist? You were being revisionist when you revised my post to remove the point I made that you wanted to make against me.

You rendered your own point moot by mentioning Popcap being hated then conveniently excluding one of their most popular and loved games. Lame. I was trying to be nice instead stating what it really looked like ; you trolling the bluesnews community because it's edgy and cool. You've since clarified somewhat though I still find your logic backwards, but you could have avoided the shitstorm by thinking before you typed in the first place.
 
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64. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 16:22 Quboid
 
Maybe I should clarify my position.

I thought that as a community (and to be clear, that doesn't mean anything like every single person in the community (and FWIW, doesn't include me)), we disliked casual gaming and as a result, we disliked PopCap. Evidently, I was wrong about how much we disliked PopCap as there are members here taking me to task on that who I don't believe would switch their opinion so weakly. I still believe PopCap were disliked but I should not have said that most of the 6 people who posted before me had switched their opinions and I apologise for this.

The gist of my post, that this community (again, not every member and probably every community) can be childish and hypocritical, does, I believe, still stand. However, I picked the wrong words and the wrong thread to make this point. The general point about PopCap having been unpopular still stands too, while there evidently are those who like PopCap more than I'd expected anyone here to. In trying to show me the error of my ways, the implication has been that we've actually been welcome to such companies and their games, which I still believe is very, very much not true. (Beamer has put this better than I managed to.)

This doesn't make my original error okay, but the revisionism and strawman arguing that has followed is much worse than my original comment. I've mentioned the respect I have for some of the people on this thread and it's very saddening to see another one of this board's more respected members revise my post so he could then accuse me of revisionism.

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 2012, 16:28.
 
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63. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:49 Quboid
 
I didn't say all. The bit in caps is, I presume, comic exaggeration but your last line about it not translating into all of Bluesnews somehow hating PopCap? Er, good, I'm glad you agree with me on this.  
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62. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:38 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 15:32:
Beamer wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:38:
Creston wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:24:
Beamer wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 08:12:
It got the same loathing we give anything else new and getting attention that we therefore don't understand and fear.

Are you trying to graduate from drama 101 or something? OMG WE PHEAR TEH CASUAL GAMES. Rolleyes Give me a fucking break.

"Who plays flash games? Oh my god, these idiots. I hope PopCap dies in a fire. Brotard ADHD crap. This isn't real gaming. Look at those sheep."

Go ahead and find someone who said that (someone who is still here). I fucking dare you.

Creston

Well, we can't, as the system doesn't really go back to when PopCap showed up, but I remember bashing Bookworm and whatever that firecracker game was. I thought it was stupid and ridiculous and no better than Minesweeper. I wasn't the only one doing so.

I don't think you can deny that some people here constantly fear something as a threat or insult to their hobby, rather than a mere extension. Yesterday people were flipping out over the cover art for BioShock Infinite. I'm not saying everyone does it, but some people here are constantly irate over something, often something tangential to games.


There will always be someone who bitches and rants over something, sure. To take that and to then imply, as Quboid did, that "MAN, ALL OF BLUESNEWS WAS BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT POPCAP!" is horseshit.

If you didn't like their games, fine. If you bitched about them making such games that you didn't like, that was kinda dumb of you, but whatever.

Again, that doesn't translate into all of bluesnews somehow hating Popcap. Because, as it was shown, most of us don't actually hate Popcap.

Creston

I'm in no way implying all, or even most, of Bluesnews did it.

But the general impression of PopCap, back around its formation when it was mostly flash based, wasn't very good. Many people thought it was dumbed-down idiot games for dumbed-down idiots. Same thing you hear people repeatedly call things today.

Not everyone. But many people. I was definitely part of that, though it was almost definitely back when I was a much more regular poster at VE3D over Blues.

And these days yes, most people have come to respect PopCap. That doesn't mean many of those same people did at first.

I'm really not trying to draw with a large brush. It wasn't most BluesNews posters flipping out over the BioShock Infinite cover art, either. Most were cool with it. But any topic will have a few people convinced that whatever is being discussed is the end of their world. Often the same people.
 
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61. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:37 Creston
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:49:
Creston wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:24:
Are you trying to graduate from drama 101 or something?

[...]

Go ahead and find someone who said that (someone who is still here). I fucking dare you.

Are you trying to fail drama 101 or something?

Whatever, Quboid. Keep holding on to your idea that GODDAMMIT, EVERYONE AT BLUE HATES POPCAP AND WAAAAH NOW THEY'RE BASHING EA FOR NO REASON.

Creston
 
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60. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:33 Quboid
 
Verno wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 15:26:
Quboid wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 15:19:
This was by no means universal, and I accept that I was wrong about the extent of the dislike of PopCap, but pretending that we (as a group, not every single person here) haven't treated casual gaming with disdain is actual revisionism. In retrospect, half wasn't generous, it was unfair because most of you guys have actually played some of their games and the people I should have referred to are the people who haven't played any PopCap games because they think that's ghey shit for casualfags.

Go yell at those people next time then, leave all of "Bluesnews" out of it.

I thought I was; evidently I was wrong.
 
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59. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:32 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:38:
Creston wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:24:
Beamer wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 08:12:
It got the same loathing we give anything else new and getting attention that we therefore don't understand and fear.

Are you trying to graduate from drama 101 or something? OMG WE PHEAR TEH CASUAL GAMES. Rolleyes Give me a fucking break.

"Who plays flash games? Oh my god, these idiots. I hope PopCap dies in a fire. Brotard ADHD crap. This isn't real gaming. Look at those sheep."

Go ahead and find someone who said that (someone who is still here). I fucking dare you.

Creston

Well, we can't, as the system doesn't really go back to when PopCap showed up, but I remember bashing Bookworm and whatever that firecracker game was. I thought it was stupid and ridiculous and no better than Minesweeper. I wasn't the only one doing so.

I don't think you can deny that some people here constantly fear something as a threat or insult to their hobby, rather than a mere extension. Yesterday people were flipping out over the cover art for BioShock Infinite. I'm not saying everyone does it, but some people here are constantly irate over something, often something tangential to games.


There will always be someone who bitches and rants over something, sure. To take that and to then imply, as Quboid did, that "MAN, ALL OF BLUESNEWS WAS BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT POPCAP!" is horseshit.

If you didn't like their games, fine. If you bitched about them making such games that you didn't like, that was kinda dumb of you, but whatever.

Again, that doesn't translate into all of bluesnews somehow hating Popcap. Because, as it was shown, most of us don't actually hate Popcap.

Creston
 
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58. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:26 Verno
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 15:19:
This was by no means universal, and I accept that I was wrong about the extent of the dislike of PopCap, but pretending that we (as a group, not every single person here) haven't treated casual gaming with disdain is actual revisionism. In retrospect, half wasn't generous, it was unfair because most of you guys have actually played some of their games and the people I should have referred to are the people who haven't played any PopCap games because they think that's ghey shit for casualfags.

Nothing wrong with my memory, you are again over simplifying something and painting with a wide brush. Yes people dislike many casual gaming companies but they typically have a reason other than LOL CASUAL GAMES stuff, that's once again lumping the trolls in with everyone else. Plenty of things in the casual market are worthy of disdain anyway. Go yell at those people next time then, leave all of "Bluesnews" out of it.

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 2012, 15:34.
 
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57. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:19 Quboid
 
Verno wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 15:09:
Quboid wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:49:
Are you trying to fail drama 101 or something?

Dude you instigated this whole mess with hyperbole and vague memories so maybe stay out of that one.

I didn't do something as shameless as to comment on someone trying to pass drama 101 and then say "I fucking dare you" in the same post.

Vague memories? Yes, as this was several years ago I don't remember specific comments or people. Hyperbole? No, comic exaggeration in reference to the anti-casual hyperbole that I remember. Maybe I remember it vaguely, but it definitely existed, and if you don't remember this then I'm afraid my vague memory is much stronger than your failed memory.

This was by no means universal, and I accept that I was wrong about the extent of the dislike of PopCap, but pretending that we (as a group, not every single person here) haven't treated casual gaming with disdain is actual revisionism.

In retrospect, half wasn't generous, it was unfair because most of you guys have actually played some of their games and the people I should have referred to are the people who haven't played any PopCap games because they think that's ghey shit for casualfags.

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 2012, 15:29.
 
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56. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:14 Quboid
 
Prez wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 08:05:
The PopCap I am familiar with were hated here

I can't remember a single Blues poster saying that they didn't love Plants versus Zombies. I really don't remember anyone even bagging on Peggle, as simple as it is. I think you might have been partaking in some revisionist history. PvZ was almost universally praised here from its release. I know I was hopelessly addicted to it for weeks.

I ... you ... what?

I said that about PvZ.

You quoted me saying that about PvZ.

Then you removed from the quote me saying that about PvZ, and are now saying what I said (and you removed) as evidence that I'm wrong.

Then you say I'm being revisionist? You were being revisionist when you revised my post to remove the point I made that you wanted to make against me.

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 2012, 15:23.
 
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55. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 15:09 Verno
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:49:
Are you trying to fail drama 101 or something?

Dude you instigated this whole mess with hyperbole and vague memories so maybe stay out of that one.
 
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54. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 14:49 Quboid
 
Creston wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:24:
Are you trying to graduate from drama 101 or something?

[...]

Go ahead and find someone who said that (someone who is still here). I fucking dare you.

Are you trying to fail drama 101 or something?
 
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53. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 14:38 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 14:24:
Beamer wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 08:12:
It got the same loathing we give anything else new and getting attention that we therefore don't understand and fear.

Are you trying to graduate from drama 101 or something? OMG WE PHEAR TEH CASUAL GAMES. Rolleyes Give me a fucking break.

"Who plays flash games? Oh my god, these idiots. I hope PopCap dies in a fire. Brotard ADHD crap. This isn't real gaming. Look at those sheep."

Go ahead and find someone who said that (someone who is still here). I fucking dare you.

Creston

Well, we can't, as the system doesn't really go back to when PopCap showed up, but I remember bashing Bookworm and whatever that firecracker game was. I thought it was stupid and ridiculous and no better than Minesweeper. I wasn't the only one doing so.

I don't think you can deny that some people here constantly fear something as a threat or insult to their hobby, rather than a mere extension. Yesterday people were flipping out over the cover art for BioShock Infinite. I'm not saying everyone does it, but some people here are constantly irate over something, often something tangential to games.

 
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52. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 11, 2012, 14:24 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 11, 2012, 08:12:
It got the same loathing we give anything else new and getting attention that we therefore don't understand and fear.

Are you trying to graduate from drama 101 or something? OMG WE PHEAR TEH CASUAL GAMES. Rolleyes Give me a fucking break.

"Who plays flash games? Oh my god, these idiots. I hope PopCap dies in a fire. Brotard ADHD crap. This isn't real gaming. Look at those sheep."

Go ahead and find someone who said that (someone who is still here). I fucking dare you.

Creston
 
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