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Planescape: Torment Successor Plans

A post on Colin McComb's Blog follows on the designer's reunion with fellow veterans of Planescape: Torment development working on Wasteland 2 with some detail on how he would envision a return to the Planescape: Torment setting. Eurogamer has a follow up on this saying that this has resulted in plans for a successor to the beloved RPG, though this would be of the spiritual, rather than official variety (though it looks like it will be named Torment), as discussions with Wizards of the Coast have not left them optimistic about a sanctioned sequel using the AD&D property. The project is proceeding in very early preproduction with Chris Avellone's blessing, but without his direct participation, as he is currently heavily involved in Project: Eternity. "The Project: Eternity Kickstarter took them in a different direction than a direct successor. I told Chris that I would not work on a Torment successor without his approval. We talked about it for a bit, and he told me that he was entirely comfortable with me moving forward on a Torment game without him, and he gave me his explicit blessing to do it," he told them. "Right now he's incredibly involved with Project: Eternity, and I do not want to distract him from a project that is incredibly important to his company. With that said, I would be happy - no, wait, overjoyed - to have him on board in any capacity whatsoever."

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32. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 5, 2012, 19:12 Stormsinger
 
Sepharo wrote on Dec 5, 2012, 12:55:
Why are you assuming everyone is responding/arguing to you?
Probably because your response was close enough to the discussion to fit perfectly well...until you said it had nothing to do with the previous posts.

I dunno, why -would- I assume that a post that fits in the flow, was about the flow? I'm stupid, I guess.

The others I have responded to were discussing points like videoconferencing which were points I introduced...I think it reasonable to assume they had some relevance to my comment.
 
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31. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 5, 2012, 12:55 Sepharo
 
Why are you assuming everyone is responding/arguing to you?  
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30. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 5, 2012, 12:22 Stormsinger
 
PHJF wrote on Dec 5, 2012, 09:03:
Yeah I don't know where this idea came from that you have to see the actual person to play an RPG with them, wtf? Video conferencing??? The whole point of the RPG is the players assume avatars, something we've long been doing in video games.

If somebody were to make a D&D toolset and let users easily craft dungeons and whatnot for groups of people to have at, I'm sure a lot of people would climb on board.

The fact Magic: The Gathering has a successful online game that is completely identical to the physical version is proof enough it could work.
Why do you people keep wanting to change the subject, and pretend that's what I/we were talking about all along? Nobody ever said you couldn't play a PnP game online. But it simply does NOT recreate the tabletop setting, therefore the idea of "retiring PnP" is completely premature. Tabletop gaming is a social event, it's not just roleplaying a character in a game. And it's hard to have a decent social event without having the traditional means of interaction, like being able to see facial expressions and hear tones of voice.
 
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29. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 5, 2012, 12:17 Stormsinger
 
Sepharo wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 23:30:
Stormsinger wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 22:41:
Sepharo wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 22:31:
I have friends who get together for table top gaming nearly every weekend. They almost always have one, sometimes two, phone players sitting nearby propped up on a screen facing the board/table. I'm sure it's not ideal but it's there. There's plenty of functioning multi-user video chats out there (Google hangout, stickcam)... just do the same thing with a game.

I know it can't replace it but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
Go back to the OP. The question he posed was "Isn't it time to retire PnP?" If today's tech can't replace tabletop environment, then it isn't time to retire the tabletop gaming.
At a minimum, any real replacement has to offer life-size HD faces for the entire group. That's a hell of a lot of monitors, and more bandwidth than most people have.

Neither of things you mentioned there were points I was trying to make. Didn't quote the op or any other post for that reason.

Was just pointing out that there are people already playing actual "tabletop" games with a virtual presence and the other was that a videogame could be made featuring working video chat with a crowd of players.
Well sure, we've been doing that since the 90s, but that wasn't what the conversation was about. If you want to -change- the topic, it might help (my understanding, at least) if you mention that.
 
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28. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 5, 2012, 09:03 PHJF
 
Yeah I don't know where this idea came from that you have to see the actual person to play an RPG with them, wtf? Video conferencing??? The whole point of the RPG is the players assume avatars, something we've long been doing in video games.

If somebody were to make a D&D toolset and let users easily craft dungeons and whatnot for groups of people to have at, I'm sure a lot of people would climb on board.

The fact Magic: The Gathering has a successful online game that is completely identical to the physical version is proof enough it could work.
 
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27. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 23:30 Sepharo
 
ugh, quote is not edit

edit: I guess I'll make use of this extra post.

When was the last time you participated in a 7-way video conference that actually worked? I never have...

You should try Google Hangout or Stickam, they do this just fine.
 
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26. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 23:30 Sepharo
 
Stormsinger wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 22:41:
Sepharo wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 22:31:
I have friends who get together for table top gaming nearly every weekend. They almost always have one, sometimes two, phone players sitting nearby propped up on a screen facing the board/table. I'm sure it's not ideal but it's there. There's plenty of functioning multi-user video chats out there (Google hangout, stickcam)... just do the same thing with a game.

I know it can't replace it but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
Go back to the OP. The question he posed was "Isn't it time to retire PnP?" If today's tech can't replace tabletop environment, then it isn't time to retire the tabletop gaming.
At a minimum, any real replacement has to offer life-size HD faces for the entire group. That's a hell of a lot of monitors, and more bandwidth than most people have.

Neither of things you mentioned there were points I was trying to make. Didn't quote the op or any other post for that reason.

Was just pointing out that there are people already playing actual "tabletop" games with a virtual presence and the other was that a videogame could be made featuring working video chat with a crowd of players.
 
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25. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 22:41 Stormsinger
 
Go back to the OP. The question he posed was "Isn't it time to retire PnP?" If today's tech can't replace tabletop environment, then it isn't time to retire the tabletop gaming.
At a minimum, any real replacement has to offer life-size HD faces for the entire group. That's a hell of a lot of monitors, and more bandwidth than most people have.
Sepharo wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 22:31:
I have friends who get together for table top gaming nearly every weekend. They almost always have one, sometimes two, phone players sitting nearby propped up on a screen facing the board/table. I'm sure it's not ideal but it's there. There's plenty of functioning multi-user video chats out there (Google hangout, stickcam)... just do the same thing with a game.

I know it can't replace it but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
 
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24. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 22:31 Sepharo
 
I have friends who get together for table top gaming nearly every weekend. They almost always have one, sometimes two, phone players sitting nearby propped up on a screen facing the board/table. I'm sure it's not ideal but it's there. There's plenty of functioning multi-user video chats out there (Google hangout, stickcam)... just do the same thing with a game.

I know it can't replace it but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
 
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23. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 20:34 sauron
 
PHJF wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 12:44:
Online gaming is years from recreating the social setting of tabletop gaming.

No, the tech is all there, the bandwidth, the market is all there. The only thing missing is a developer with the balls/money/desire to do something about it.

It's really not there yet. A tabletop game is several times more interactive, social and fun than even the most tight-knit MMO raiding guilds can ever hope to be. I've played PnP for 30+ years and have raided in multiple MMOs. I love both genres but there's really no comparison.

In a great PnP session, you play the game, catch up with old friends, ask about their kids, pop open a bottle of wine, and generally hang out. It's a great game and an excuse to meet good friends, all at the same time. MMOs don't even get close to that, even in a tight guild that's been around for years.
 
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22. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 19:27 Stormsinger
 
PHJF wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 12:44:
Online gaming is years from recreating the social setting of tabletop gaming.

No, the tech is all there, the bandwidth, the market is all there. The only thing missing is a developer with the balls/money/desire to do something about it.
The tech is most assuredly NOT there. When was the last time you participated in a 7-way video conference that actually worked? I never have, in spite of working for companies that supposedly rely on remote conferencing. Maps and electronic dice are not the social setting, those are the mechanics, and the absolute least important portions of the experience.
 
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21. Re: More Big Picture Details Dec 4, 2012, 18:49 HorrorScope
 
PHJF wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 12:44:
Online gaming is years from recreating the social setting of tabletop gaming.

No, the tech is all there, the bandwidth, the market is all there. The only thing missing is a developer with the balls/money/desire to do something about it.

I agree. I know WOTC tried to create a desktop DnD experience on the PC. They cancelled it. But to me I don't see any reason why it cannot be done, I don't mean game adaptions using DnD. I'm talking very basic graphics that are similar to hexes and miniatures, but the map is laid out, the die rolls by pc, the rules are controlled by the pc to make it easier to GM. I agree, this to me should be a big deal for WOTC to get right.
 
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20. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 12:44 PHJF
 
Online gaming is years from recreating the social setting of tabletop gaming.

No, the tech is all there, the bandwidth, the market is all there. The only thing missing is a developer with the balls/money/desire to do something about it.
 
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19. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 11:02 Stormsinger
 
Uh...no. Online gaming is years from recreating the social setting of tabletop gaming. Until and unless it manages to allow face-to-face interaction, there is still plenty of reason to keep the more social version of roleplaying games.
PHJF wrote on Dec 4, 2012, 09:19:
I've never played a tabletop game (though in high school I got dangerously close to buying into WH40K) so speaking as an observer...

Isn't it time to retire PnP? We're well past the point where, given tools enough, the PC can be used to carry nearly all of the tabletop experience online. NWN was hugely popular and had tons of fucking wacky servers, from a bunch of LotR realms to a mock Diablo clone to full-on original servers. The success of WoW clearly shows a market for this sort of thing, and at the same time its (many) shortcomings highlight the need for something much better. Enough with the clones and knockoffs and incremental updates to a long-stale formula, somebody needs to get off their fucking asses and make a REAL, WORTHWHILE MMO not to compete with WoW, not to dethrone it, but to show it as the simple, uninspired, boring game it has long been. What better way than an established, esteemed IP like AD&D to do this?

Just don't let Turbine near it because they don't have the balls or abilities for so grand a project.
 
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18. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 09:58 Creston
 
I'm not sure that Torment without the Planescape setting is really the same. To me the setting was far cooler than the broody "tormented" hero.

One good thing about this, however, is that it shows that both Avellone and McComb are done designing Wasteland 2, so that's a good step.

Creston
 
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17. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 09:19 PHJF
 
I've never played a tabletop game (though in high school I got dangerously close to buying into WH40K) so speaking as an observer...

Isn't it time to retire PnP? We're well past the point where, given tools enough, the PC can be used to carry nearly all of the tabletop experience online. NWN was hugely popular and had tons of fucking wacky servers, from a bunch of LotR realms to a mock Diablo clone to full-on original servers. The success of WoW clearly shows a market for this sort of thing, and at the same time its (many) shortcomings highlight the need for something much better. Enough with the clones and knockoffs and incremental updates to a long-stale formula, somebody needs to get off their fucking asses and make a REAL, WORTHWHILE MMO not to compete with WoW, not to dethrone it, but to show it as the simple, uninspired, boring game it has long been. What better way than an established, esteemed IP like AD&D to do this?

Just don't let Turbine near it because they don't have the balls or abilities for so grand a project.
 
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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16. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 08:18 sauron
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 3, 2012, 20:29:
Jesus Christ I wish WOTC never acquired the D&D IP. The old gang from TSR should kickstart a new TSR, buy the IP back and start producing good D&D products and games once more. We should have had at least a dozen good D&D titles over the last decade and an MMO as well! WOTC has just turned it all into so much schlock.

The only way they can make a Torment successor is definitely "in the spirit" of it, and that's it.


I've been playing D&D on and off since 1980, and still have all my original first edition AD&D books and modules, plus some of the Planescape setting books (which are 2ed).

I don't like either the rules or the settings for 4th ed. at all. I find them overcomplicated, generic, and dull - WotC simply rehashing the original idea for added shareholder value. Pathfinder is a lot better and I find that version's world setting to be really excellent.

I still play the first edition rules, grafted on to the Pathfinder setting, although I'd love to run a campaign set in the Planescape universe as well.

If I was going to play anything else it would be Stormbringer or Call of Cthulhu - have all the books for those as well, by Chaosium. Both games are excellent - Stormbringer in particular, and the game can be had from Noble Knight for cheap prices or from DrivethruRPG.com as pdf. Some of the campaigns for Stormbringer are amazing, eg Rogue Mistress , Pan Tang, Purple Towns and Melnibone .

Whoops - got a bit off the point. A new Planescape CRPG? Bring it on. Loved the original.

This comment was edited on Dec 4, 2012, 08:29.
 
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15. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 08:18 {PH}88fingers
 
one of my favorite all time games!!  
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14. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 07:23 InBlack
 
Honestly I have no interest in a 'sequel' to Planescape Torment that isnt set in the D&D multiverse or rather the Planescape setting. The lore, NPCs and key interwoven storylines is what makes Planescape so damn interesting. A city that sits in the intersection of all the major planes of existence of D&D???

There is no way that they can make a game without the licence that wont feel like a cheap knockoff.

I would much rather have a whole brand new fantasy IP like they are trying to do with Project Eternity...
 
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13. Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans Dec 4, 2012, 07:19 InBlack
 
Fion wrote on Dec 3, 2012, 21:24:
TSR severely mismanaged D&D, thus why WotC bought the IP. I've enjoyed products that both have made, and am somewhat looking forward to D&D Next. For the record, my favorite edition is 4th, though I've played (and extensively DM'd) every edition since the basic red box that came out in 83.

On topic, happy to hear about this. Also cant wait for more details on Obsidian's project.

HERESY! Everyone knows that the 3.5 edition is the best one, the 4th just screams DUMBED DOWN!!
 
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