32 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 2.
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| 12. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 4, 2012, 02:54 |
Fion |
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Flatline wrote on Dec 3, 2012, 23:32:
Fion wrote on Dec 3, 2012, 21:24:
TSR severely mismanaged D&D, thus why WotC bought the IP. I've enjoyed products that both have made, and am somewhat looking forward to D&D Next. For the record, my favorite edition is 4th, though I've played (and extensively DM'd) every edition since the basic red box that came out in 83.
On topic, happy to hear about this. Also cant wait for more details on Obsidian's project. 
Sorry to say this, but 4th edition destroyed D&D as a brand. And I'm not using hyperbole...
...it's because WOTC saw World of Warcraft and wanted in on that sweet, sweet action.
Quite a rant there. I wouldn't say 4e 'destroyed D&D as a brand.' It has been relatively successful in an era were RPGs around the world are seeing diminished sales. That doesn't mean it isn't great, in many ways.
And I see this 'WotC just wanted to hop on the WoW bandwagon' but I can pretty immediately tell that anyone who says that has barely touched 4e because it only has a cursory resemblance to WoW. It's a highly tactical, group based dungeon runner RPG. For what it does (combat and tactical play) it is unbeaten by any edition. It was for this reason that my group considers it our favorite edition, and many of them have been playing with me since 2nd edition. I started in Basic and have DM'd ever since. It is real combat focused RPG, with very little on the RP or non-combat mechanics, etc. But frankly if we get in the mood for good RP, deep story and setting, we play WoD which has always outdone D&D in that dept. I personally enjoy WoD 'more' than D&D. In particular I think W:tF and C:tL are my faves. We play a fair bit of V:tR as well. Cant wait for the WoD MMOG.. even if it is set in old WoD setting (using largely nWoD rules). Also real excited for 3rd edition Exalted.
That's not to say it doesn't have its problems. I totally agree with you on the Errata. And as well with D&DN, so far it's a big 'meh'. Doesn't keep some of the great things 4e added to the game and seems to be half-assing the attempt to bring back the 'feel' older editions by re-introducing things like a class-specific attack bonus and spell saves (when I think most would agree the NAD system is superior.)
In the end to each their own. I've had folks in my group over the years who didn't enjoy 4e, but I've also had folks who hated 3/3.5 with a passion. As a DM I cant say I thought it was that great an edition myself lol. To much a pain in the ass for DMing. In the end folks will play what they want to play. If D&DN doesn't work out, my group with still be playing 4e.
This comment was edited on Dec 4, 2012, 03:01. |
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| 11. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 4, 2012, 01:38 |
Stormsinger |
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Cutter wrote on Dec 3, 2012, 23:04:
The reason its important - to me at least - that they get to utilize the Planescape universe which is pretty damn interesting - e.g. City of Brass, etc.
Well, that's a point, true enough. The only parts of any version of AD&D that I actually appreciated were the settings and peripheral publications (and the tournaments, mostly from the RPGA, tended to be quite a blast). Overall, they did some rather fine world-building. |
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| 10. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 23:32 |
Flatline |
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Fion wrote on Dec 3, 2012, 21:24:
TSR severely mismanaged D&D, thus why WotC bought the IP. I've enjoyed products that both have made, and am somewhat looking forward to D&D Next. For the record, my favorite edition is 4th, though I've played (and extensively DM'd) every edition since the basic red box that came out in 83.
On topic, happy to hear about this. Also cant wait for more details on Obsidian's project.
Sorry to say this, but 4th edition destroyed D&D as a brand. And I'm not using hyperbole. At the height of 3rd, they charted around 20 million "current" players and 15 million people who had played but weren't playing.
According to court documents a couple years ago, at the height of 4th ed, they charted between 1 and 2 million active players. Essentials, the not-a-new-edition-but-new-edition fragmented and confused the fuck out of the player base even more, to the point where Pathfinder, basically 3.5 Anime Edition, consistently started outselling 4th ed and essentials combined. 4th sold *so* badly that they brought back 3.5 through the back door, reprinting the PHBs, DMGs, and MMs in anthologies almost a decade after sticking a fork in them.
5th edition, from all the playtest material I'm getting, is a fucking disaster. It's trying to be too many things, and ends up being particularly... nothing.
I remember the first playtest kit they sent out... The thief was useless. Seriously. The wizard disarmed traps better, and the cleric detected traps and out-damaged the thief. And with skills being neutered from 3rd, it was a fucking joke and scary that our first "brush" with 5th ed would miss such basic ideas as "make the thief good at what the thief is supposed to do." Yeah yeah, it's an alpha/beta test, but when your published, archetypal characters *suck* at their intended job compared to the rest of the party, that's a sign that the game is in the shitter.
D&D is not a major property for Wizards/Hasbro. The powers that be come up with lofty goals, and then can't make the math work. Mearls and his ATROCIOUS handling of 4th ed's errata is proof alone of this (I think he finally gave up on skill challenges entirely when the math just couldn't work), and let's be honest, for the core 3 books alone amounted to hundreds of pages of errata where entire builds were created, evolved, and destroyed within continual revisions (magic missile, I'm looking at *you*). In fact, while it's easy to say that no two games of D&D are run the same, in 4th ed, no two sets of base rules were the same, depending on when you picked up the errata, how often you updated errata, and so on. The final result of 4th ed is a game almost totally unrecognizable from what you get when you purchase the core books (which never left their first printing BTW). There was shit in the errata that was clearly not play-tested, just thrown out there, and instead of testing *poof!* it was official errata. Until the community raped the shit out of it and showed how broken it was, then *poof* something else took it's place.
By the way, if all of this sounds familiar, it's because WOTC saw World of Warcraft and wanted in on that sweet, sweet action. So you got level treadmills and grinds and cooldown timers and macro bars and a constantly changing ruleset that made it impossible to be consistent if you went by the most updated rules as written. And surprise of surprise, nobody wants to print out the latest 20 pages of errata on the game, for the 30th time this year.
D&D Next or whatever the fuck they're calling it is hopefully going to be the *last* iteration of the necrophilia that is WOTC handling of D&D. I hope it's such a goddamn disaster that they fire the powers that be and sell the IP off on the auction block. |
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| 9. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 23:04 |
Cutter |
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The reason its important - to me at least - that they get to utilize the Planescape universe which is pretty damn interesting - e.g. City of Brass, etc.
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| "Are you crazy? Is that your problem?" - Jack Burton |
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| 8. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 22:46 |
Stormsinger |
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| Interesting timing, considering I just fired up Planescape last week for another run. I have no problem with the idea of a spiritual successor, given that Planescape itself played awfully loosely with the AD&D ruleset (and I never considered that to be a bad thing). |
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| 7. |
Re: More Big Picture Details |
Dec 3, 2012, 22:34 |
HorrorScope |
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There is OGL to get the DnD ruleset in, if that is a huge desire:
OGL is the open game licence created by Wizards of the Coast to allow third-parties to use their open game content. The open game content is a set of rules that constitutes the foundation of the pen-and-paper role playing game Dungeons & Dragons 3.5. Thus, the open content is distinct from D&D, but very closely related. |
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| 6. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 22:17 |
mag |
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| Shut up and take my money! As they say. |
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| 5. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 21:46 |
Klaus Flouride |
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| Please do the Kickstarter now! |
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| When all else fails empty the magazine... |
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| 4. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 21:24 |
Fion |
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TSR severely mismanaged D&D, thus why WotC bought the IP. I've enjoyed products that both have made, and am somewhat looking forward to D&D Next. For the record, my favorite edition is 4th, though I've played (and extensively DM'd) every edition since the basic red box that came out in 83.
On topic, happy to hear about this. Also cant wait for more details on Obsidian's project. |
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| 3. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 20:29 |
Cutter |
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Jesus Christ I wish WOTC never acquired the D&D IP. The old gang from TSR should kickstart a new TSR, buy the IP back and start producing good D&D products and games once more. We should have had at least a dozen good D&D titles over the last decade and an MMO as well! WOTC has just turned it all into so much schlock.
The only way they can make a Torment successor is definitely "in the spirit" of it, and that's it.
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| "Are you crazy? Is that your problem?" - Jack Burton |
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| 2. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 20:11 |
John |
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| That would be sweet! Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, and Planescape: Torment.. bring 'em on! |
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| This space is available for rent |
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| 1. |
Re: Planescape: Torment Successor Plans |
Dec 3, 2012, 20:11 |
Mashiki Amiketo |
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| Well...let's see what happens then. Otherwise, we'll go with *squee* |
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--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken |
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32 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 2.
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