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Out of the Blue

Football Thursday is upon us, and most of this week's games are in December, so things are getting serious. Sorry for posting late on Thanksgiving and making things difficult, here's the best I could do to piece together last week's results: Jivaro 11-5, Batman 10-5 (you can take that win from last week, but this time I'm not sure who the "Queens" are), Blue 10-6, Cutter 9-6, and Creston 8-5.

Here goes for this week: Saints, Bears, Texans, Patriots, Bills, Lions, Panthers, Packers, 49ers, Jets, Broncos, Ravens, Bengals, Browns, Cowboys, and Giants.

Serious Links: Thanks Ant and Acleacius.
Play: Feed Us 4.
Stories: Lohan Charged With Assault in NYC.
Science: How sensitive is the climate to added CO2?
U.S. Lagging in Modern-Day Space Race.
Media: New surveillance video shows F-18 crashing into apartments. Thanks nin.
Alfred Hitchcock's Movie Cameos.
How to Eat an Ear of Corn - Quickly!
The Funnies: Cat Breath Cartoon - Savage Chickens.
Follow-up: Data from the LHC suggest it may be producing a new type of matter. Thanks j.c.f.
Hostess to seek approval of executive bonuses. Thanks nin. Use the Twinkie defense!

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56 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 3.
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16. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 12:02 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 11:39:
I don't get your first point. They cannot get unemployed immediately - it's more or less impossible to sell this company without these guys. They're the ones that have actually been running it - they're needed to run it in the time being and whoever buys it will want to spend considerable time speaking with them as part of due diligence. There's more or less no way to move forward with this company without having many of these people in place.

You make the argument that without bonuses they will flee for the first possible job offer, and that if they stay they will eventually run out of this job and possibly be unemployed for a long time. So they need extra money to sweeten the deal.

So if you take the bonuses out of the equation, by simply saying "Fuck you, you're not getting any bonuses" they are left with either finding a new job, or sticking around with this one, or going unemployed. And if they can't find a new job, what are they going to do? Quit? Or keep pulling their retardedly large salary for what amounts of turning off the lights?

Lots of these guys aren't the ones that ran it into the ground, either. Put the blame on the CEO for that. Many of these guys weren't in that decision-making position. Like I said, I'm sure many IT guys are part of this. Can you blame the guy maintaining the Exchange server for running Hostess into the ground?

What company do you work for where the Exchange administrator (or ANY IT guy other than the CTO) is considered an EXECUTIVE???

But, when a business is being wound down and is courting new buyers, you need at least a skeleton crew to keep operations going and you need some of the people that were in charge of functional areas (e.g., anyone in the upper half of marketing, whoever runs the IT infrastructure, all your field operations people) to stick around to answer questions for the due diligence so that a buyer is convinced that it's worth whatever asking price.

But the IT guy isn't going to get any bonuses. The poor IT guy is going to stick around because, hey, it beats going on social security. They are talking about the EXECUTIVES getting the bonuses. So what if they all fucking leave? You hire an auditor to go through their books and figure out its worth.

Btw, when they go into chapter 11, don't they get assigned someone who oversees the chapter 11 anyway?

I seriously fail to see why the executives need extra fucking money to "stay motivated." Fuck that noise. That's 1.8 million dollars they could put in a pot for the poor 18000 people who will lose their jobs AND pensions. I'm sure they could use a thousand bucks each much, much, MUCH more than the cocksucking executives need money to buy another fucking Aston Martin.

Creston
 
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15. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:53 Creston
 
nin wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 11:32:
We should just shoot every executive in this country. We'll name it "Let's stop wasting 900 trillion dollars on useless cuntsacks" day, and we all go out and just shoot every executive we see. Imagine how much better shit would be without all the money being wasted on those fucking assholes.

I'm think we don't kill them all right away. We do like The Running Man, where the shareholders in the audience get to vote on who's next.


I like that. We call it the Executive Games.

"I dare say, good fellow, this parachute isn't golden enough for my liking! Might you have a more vibrant shade?"

"I've always had quite a fondness for the color of big piles of cash money!"

Creston
 
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14. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:52 nin
 
NegaDeath wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 11:45:
They get bonuses when they do well, bonuses when they just manage to keep the lights on, bonuses when they do poorly, and bonuses when they do so poorly the company shuts down. Insanity.

Exactly. 18K people lose their jobs, and the execs want proper parachutes.

"I dare say, good fellow, this parachute isn't golden enough for my liking! Might you have a more vibrant shade?"

 
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13. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:45 NegaDeath
 
They get bonuses when they do well, bonuses when they just manage to keep the lights on, bonuses when they do poorly, and bonuses when they do so poorly the company shuts down. Insanity.  
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12. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:39 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 11:27:
Beamer wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 11:17:
No, in this case it's kind of valid.
Think of it this way, Creston: you're an executive at a company that is going out of business. They ask you to stick around for a year to help wind it down.

What do you do? You update your resume, call a headhunter, and take the next job offer to come your way.

These guys will not, under any circumstances, stick around. It's a bad decision. The only way to get them to do so is to overpay them to do what is ultimately a waste of their time, especially considering that they could find themselves unemployed for a long time afterwards and it's hard to convince them not to job hunt immediately to lessen that risk.

Your argument kind of already defeats itself. What would be better for these guys, to stick around for a year and still get paid their horribly overinflated salary, or to go unemployed immediately? And yeah, you do run the risk of them leaving for another job. (And sadly, plenty of companies always seem more than happy to pick up utterly failed executives. "He ran Hostess into the ground? Fucking HIRE that guy!!!!!")

So okay, in the case of hostess I can sort of see it, somewhat. Maybe. But this "motivation" card is now played for all fucking executives everywhere. The CEO makes 8 million in salary, but he really needs the 50 million dollar bonus to "stay motivated."

Fuck those assholes right down their windpipe.

Creston

I don't get your first point. They cannot get unemployed immediately - it's more or less impossible to sell this company without these guys. They're the ones that have actually been running it - they're needed to run it in the time being and whoever buys it will want to spend considerable time speaking with them as part of due diligence. There's more or less no way to move forward with this company without having many of these people in place.

Lots of these guys aren't the ones that ran it into the ground, either. Put the blame on the CEO for that. Many of these guys weren't in that decision-making position. Like I said, I'm sure many IT guys are part of this. Can you blame the guy maintaining the Exchange server for running Hostess into the ground?

Listen, I agree CEOs are way overpaid (again, I'll call this a function of taxation), and I agree that the management team for Hostess, while dealing with a brand that likely deserves to be dead, completely screwed everything up, greedily took as much from it as they could, and pointed their finger at the union when it blew up for the umpteenth time. Their pay raises, their raiding, is all inexcusable.
But, when a business is being wound down and is courting new buyers, you need at least a skeleton crew to keep operations going and you need some of the people that were in charge of functional areas (e.g., anyone in the upper half of marketing, whoever runs the IT infrastructure, all your field operations people) to stick around to answer questions for the due diligence so that a buyer is convinced that it's worth whatever asking price.

Hostess is a fantastic example of a poorly run company, of a product no one wanted anymore, of a company crippled by pension payments, and of greedy management calling everyone greedy but themselves.
But you cannot sell Hostess without overpaying its key people to stick around. Notably, the CEO doesn't have to be one of those people. Odds are whoever is buying doesn't have any interest in talking to him.
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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11. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:32 nin
 
We should just shoot every executive in this country. We'll name it "Let's stop wasting 900 trillion dollars on useless cuntsacks" day, and we all go out and just shoot every executive we see. Imagine how much better shit would be without all the money being wasted on those fucking assholes.

I'm think we don't kill them all right away. We do like The Running Man, where the shareholders in the audience get to vote on who's next.

 
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10. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:27 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 11:17:
No, in this case it's kind of valid.
Think of it this way, Creston: you're an executive at a company that is going out of business. They ask you to stick around for a year to help wind it down.

What do you do? You update your resume, call a headhunter, and take the next job offer to come your way.

These guys will not, under any circumstances, stick around. It's a bad decision. The only way to get them to do so is to overpay them to do what is ultimately a waste of their time, especially considering that they could find themselves unemployed for a long time afterwards and it's hard to convince them not to job hunt immediately to lessen that risk.

Your argument kind of already defeats itself. What would be better for these guys, to stick around for a year and still get paid their horribly overinflated salary, or to go unemployed immediately? And yeah, you do run the risk of them leaving for another job. (And sadly, plenty of companies always seem more than happy to pick up utterly failed executives. "He ran Hostess into the ground? Fucking HIRE that guy!!!!!")

So okay, in the case of hostess I can sort of see it, somewhat. Maybe. But this "motivation" card is now played for all fucking executives everywhere. The CEO makes 8 million in salary, but he really needs the 50 million dollar bonus to "stay motivated."

Fuck those assholes right down their windpipe.

Creston
 
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9. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:21 nin
 


Has SnuggleTruck burned up Prez's videocard yet???

 
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8. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:17 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 11:08:
nin wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 10:56:
I'm amazed they'd ask for more money now...talk about out of touch.


I love how in executive land, the bonuses are now necessary to "keep the executives motivated."

THEN WHAT ARE YOU BEING PAID A FUCKING SALARY FOR??

We should just shoot every executive in this country. We'll name it "Let's stop wasting 900 trillion dollars on useless cuntsacks" day, and we all go out and just shoot every executive we see. Imagine how much better shit would be without all the money being wasted on those fucking assholes.

Creston

No, in this case it's kind of valid.
Think of it this way, Creston: you're an executive at a company that is going out of business. They ask you to stick around for a year to help wind it down.

What do you do? You update your resume, call a headhunter, and take the next job offer to come your way.

These guys will not, under any circumstances, stick around. It's a bad decision. The only way to get them to do so is to overpay them to do what is ultimately a waste of their time, especially considering that they could find themselves unemployed for a long time afterwards and it's hard to convince them not to job hunt immediately to lessen that risk.



Everything else they've done, though? The constant CEO shuffle? The constant pay raises? The blaming of the union when that was only a part of the issue, and the union had taken cuts before? Yeah, all scummy. This is a company that was pretty much mismanaged and raided.
But overpaying people to shut it down is an unavoidable reality. It's not about "keeping them motivated," as you say, it's about keeping them in that job as long as they are needed. They aren't some kind of indentured servant - they're free to leave whenever, and a smart employee would leave asap and have no gap in salary. Just imagine you're the IT guy there, or whatever job function you have. Would you plan to be there until the end? God no, you'd have called everyone you know about a new job long ago. If they asked you to stay, because IT is something necessary, would you do it? Again, god no, because you don't want to be unemployed and staying guarantees some time of that. So what could possibly motivate you to stay until you're no longer needed, during a time that you're critically needed and desperate to go?
Money. Lots and lots of money.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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7. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:09 Jivaro
 
My picks: Atlanta, Buffalo, Chicago, Indy, Green Bay, Carolina, New England, Jets, San Francisco, Houston, Denver, Baltimore, Oakland, Cincy, Dallas, Washington

This week has some tough picks. ATL/NO, CLE/OAK, and NYG/WAS are all "coin flip" games. Hopefully I flipped a lucky coin. I feel a little dirty picking the Raiders to win.

Pitt has lost to Baltimore the last 3 times the teams have played by a combined score of 71-37. I admit that sounds worse then it really is thanks to a 35-7 blowout in 2011, but without Big Ben, I don't think the Steelers can put enough points on the board to compete.

There are some truly big disappointments this year, but the Lions, Jets, and the Eagles are my top 3 flops. I didn't think I would be picking any of them the rest of the year so to be picking the Jets this week feels...wrong.

On a semi-related note...please let this be the week my fantasy team gets back on track. I was crushing my division until the last 2 weeks. I still lead in overall fantasy points but now I am behind in the ranking by one game. I have both Schaub and Flacco on my roster and chose to go with Schaub this week. I hope that doesn't backfire on me.

@Creston: My luck can't last..it never does.
 
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6. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:08 Creston
 
nin wrote on Nov 29, 2012, 10:56:
I'm amazed they'd ask for more money now...talk about out of touch.


I love how in executive land, the bonuses are now necessary to "keep the executives motivated."

THEN WHAT ARE YOU BEING PAID A FUCKING SALARY FOR??

We should just shoot every executive in this country. We'll name it "Let's stop wasting 900 trillion dollars on useless cuntsacks" day, and we all go out and just shoot every executive we see. Imagine how much better shit would be without all the money being wasted on those fucking assholes.

Creston
 
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5. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 11:01 Creston
 
Okay, it really confused me that I would have missed that many games, so I went back to look, and I think you forgot my picks for Thanksgiving, Blue. (I posted those the night before.)

I went 2-1 on those, so I was actually 10-6. I SHALL HAVE MINE PROPER RECORD, SIR!

please? Cry


And dammit, Jivaro, stop always picking one game better than me!!

Creston
 
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4. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 10:56 nin
 

I'm amazed they'd ask for more money now...talk about out of touch.

 
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3. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 10:55 Creston
 
8-5? Did I forget to pick two games or something?

Picks: Falcons, Bills, Bears, 49'ers (FFS SF, WIN SOME FUCKING GAMES WHEN I PICK YOU!!!), Patriots, .... aarrgghhh.... JETS (shut up, Verno! ), Lions, Packers, Texans, ... whatever, Chiefs I guess... they should just fucking relegate the Chiefs and Panthers down to college football level, Broncos, Browns, Bengals, Ravens, Cowboys, Giants.

Creston

This comment was edited on Nov 29, 2012, 11:05.
 
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2. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 10:54 Verno
 
My picks from last week. I didn't do very well at 8-8.

My picks for this week:

Falcons, Bills, Bears, Colts, Packers, Panthers, Patriots, JETS, 49ers, Texans, Broncos (game to watch IMHO), Ravens, Browns, Bengles, Cowboys, Giants
 
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Playing: Alien Isolation, Legend of Grimrock 2, Super Mario 3D World
Watching: A Good Marriage, The Knick, Gotham
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1. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 29, 2012, 10:50 SirKnight
 
Those Hostess execs have done such a good job at keeping the company thriving they need all kinds of bonuses....oh wait.

Those greedy bastards are the reason the company went down, the last thing they need is more bonuses. After the last bankruptcy they gave themselves HUGE pay increases that they not only did not deserve but the company could not afford. Then they turn around and blame it all on the strike. LOL! Those idiots don't deserve one cent.
 
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