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Out of the Blue

The oncoming cold I mentioned yesterday already seems to be outgoing, as my sore throat is abating, and it doesn't seem it's being replaced by any further symptoms. The worst of it as this point is that I'm constantly clearing my throat, which as George Costanza taught us is "a non-verbal implication of doubt." Hopefully I won't accidentally imply I suspect anyone of murder.

Cleared Links: Thanks Ant and Acleacius.
Play: Dikembe Mutombo's 4 1/2 Weeks to Save the World.
Dragon Fist 3D.
Stories: Hobbit was almost filmed in Britain, director reveals.
Science: Pork Safety - What's in Pork ? Consumer Reports.
Interactions Between Grapefruits And Drugs Can Cause Severe Effects, Death.
Media: Game of Thrones Sitcom.
Ninten-blow.
Dog Helps Firefighters to Pull Down Tree.
Giant shopping cart takes Chevy engine to move. Pretty sure any engine would do.
Auction: ‘Casablanca’ piano to be auctioned off, expected to go for $1.2 million.
The Funnies: Brevity.
Follow-up: US coastal cities in danger as sea levels rise faster than expected, study warns.

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37 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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37. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 30, 2012, 02:25 eRe4s3r
 
Yeah, with coffee you can instantly tell it does something related to the drug effect strength, for me it is nearly the same, up to even a level of deliriousness. It got so bad I couldn't properly sleep for 3 days ;/ (Grape and Coffee don't mix well..)

Kinda surprised this only now becomes known. Grapefruit has been banished from my list of stuff I eat for nearly 5 years now. Of course, nobody in my friends circle believed me so far.. hah
 
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36. Sick... Nov 29, 2012, 01:33 Ant
 
My queen ant got sick last night. I was feeling icky late last night too. I hope I am not getting sick again since I just had one that come and go, and got a flu shot last month!  
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35. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 23:57 xXBatmanXx
 
The numbers drawn Wednesday night are: 5, 16, 22, 23, 29 and Powerball of 6.

A lottery official said late Wednesday that the jackpot increased to $579.9 million by the time of the drawing, making the cash option $379.8 million.


wow.
 
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Buy from GreenManGaming? Use this, we both get $2.00 - http://www.greenmangaming.com/?gmgr=purutuwi
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34. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 19:52 Prez
 
Amen to both PHJF's and Cutter's last posts.  
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33. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 19:46 Cutter
 
Prez wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 17:51:
Still, I couldn't agree with you more about alternative fuels. We have plenty of time to work on the discovery/creation/establishment of new ways to get around and fuel our industries, but we need to start now instead of waiting 'til the last minute.

I'm not even going to get into discussing Peak Oil atm but suffice to say we're way behind the curve here on getting up to speed with renewable energy. Without a concerted global effort within the next several years we're going to be seeing serious long term ramifications within the next 25-50 years. We'll all be dead so it doesn't matter much but anyone with kids is dooming them to a terrible future.
 
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"Nobody wants to be nobody in America. Ed is the apotheosis of a prevailing American syndrome. It used to be that someone became famous because they were special. Now people are considered special just for being famous. Fame, itself, is its own virtue.
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32. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 19:03 PHJF
 
Ultimately I agree that it is better to fail safe; the problem is a lot of what the Greens are pushing is pretty draconian and sweeping for a "maybe" without there being a whole lot of promise that any of it will have any calculable effect.

Just another victim of extremist politics. Half of elected officials want to murder anyone using carbon, and half think the EPA is evil incarnate.
 
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31. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 17:51 Prez
 
PHJF wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 17:44:
Sorry, I'd thought the first post on the topic was from you when it was from this porn-o-matic character.

So often science grossly underestimates the earths's ecosystem's ability to assimate bad things introduced into it and heal itself.

The stakes are too high to chance it. And while burning coal and oil is great for the bottom line, the stuff is going to run out eventually. We are already suffering from worries of peak oil, but coal is set to last at least another century (which is no time at all in the grand scheme of human history).

Ultimately I agree that it is better to fail safe; the problem is a lot of what the Greens are pushing is pretty draconian and sweeping for a "maybe" without there being a whole lot of promise that any of it will have any calculable effect. I don't think anyone (besides the fanatical anti-environment crowd) would be against reasonable controls, but things like charging exorbitant, prohibitive rates for "carbon footprints" and doing things that will cause energy costs for people like you and me to "necessarily skyrocket" to just name two more egregious examples are really asking too much based on too little evidence in my opinion. EDIT: Creston brought up another one with the UN's insulting "Kyoto Treaty".

Still, I couldn't agree with you more about alternative fuels. We have plenty of time to work on the discovery/creation/establishment of new ways to get around and fuel our industries, but we need to start now instead of waiting 'til the last minute.

This comment was edited on Nov 28, 2012, 17:59.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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30. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 17:49 Creston
 
As for the global warming, don't worry guys. Soon the UN will get together for another vacation serious meeting in a resort place of serious business, waste approximately 10 million dollars in partying needed refreshments and such, and they'll come up with something as fucking useless as the Kyoto Protocol again, after which they all go home with satisfied smiles because of the taxpayer-funded blowjobs they really "fixed" the problem this time around.

Yay, UN!

Creston
 
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29. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 17:44 PHJF
 
Sorry, I'd thought the first post on the topic was from you when it was from this porn-o-matic character.

So often science grossly underestimates the earths's ecosystem's ability to assimate bad things introduced into it and heal itself.

The stakes are too high to chance it. And while burning coal and oil is great for the bottom line, the stuff is going to run out eventually. We are already suffering from worries of peak oil, but coal is set to last at least another century (which is no time at all in the grand scheme of human history).
 
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 17:42 Creston
 
Verno wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 15:16:
JETS,

You just won't give up, will you?

Creston
 
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 17:27 Beamer
 
Yeah, can this guy please explain how Nuclear Winter was disproven? We haven't had a nuclear war that results in dozens of urban environments smoldering for days, as the theory claims, so it hasn't been disproven via actions. Nor has it been disproven via research and modeling, as best as I can tell, as reports validating it still come out frequently.

And, even if it was disproven via research and modeling, he's using nuclear winter as proof that research and modeling can be flawed, so, bu his own admission, any research and modeling disproving it may be incorrect and, therefore, it may be a valid theory (doesn't defeat his point that it makes the research and modeling moot, as it would be contradictory, but does defeat his point that nuclear winter isn't a valid theory.)
 
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 17:23 NegaDeath
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 16:51:
I never said that NO SCIENTIST EVAR! could be 100% sure about ANYTHING.

But you took it out of context and claimed I did.

Ahh I see the confusion now. This paragraph sounded like you meant ALL science:

"I honestly believe that, just like politics - which, by the way, science is HUGELY affected by - science is not about discovering and finding the truth anymore. It's about big money, big prizes, big egos. It's just as influenced by corporate money on both sides of the aisle. You don't think GREEN is a HUGE business right now?"

Consider that claim dropped.
 
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25. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 17:20 Prez
 
When it comes to global warming, frankly I don't trust either side. I think it is safe to say the the earth is warming, as we are coming out of a recent (relative to the earth's age anyway) ice age, so that puts me out with the "global warming is a myth" crowd. At the same time, there isn't anywhere enough empirical scientific evidence to convince me that something humanity is doing is having any noticeable effect on the environment. We lack any kind of baseline for how the earth would be warming in the long term without humans present at all, so any conclusions are immediately specious just for starters. I could go on but suffice it to say that I am not convinced with what science has put forth thus far. Correlation does not prove causality no matter how temperature seems to follow CO2 emmissions, any more than areas having large amount of cow flatulence also having lower crime rates means cow farts reduce crime. So often science grossly underestimates the earths's ecosystem's ability to assimate bad things introduced into it and heal itself.

Both sides are way too fanatical and way too emotionally invested in the issue to be trusted, and on some levels this includes scientists, but also the corporations who stand to gain or lose billions on the issue if we could just sell the public on one viewpoint or the other. I prefer a more pragmatic approach; whether or not cars spewing poison into the air has any long term effect on mother earth's ecosystem (about which I am all for further study to be sure), I don't see how anyone could think that this isn't bad for the short term air that we all have to breath. So turn off your car when you are just sitting, and roll down your window when it's nice out, and maybe walk your fat ass instead of driving everywhere even though it's a mile away, and, if you are an asshole, for God's sake, stop breathing!
 
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24. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 17:18 Cutter
 
It must be pleasant, this fictional world you live in where facts and reality don't apply. Thanks for the link to Faux News by the way that only confirms what we suspected about your point of view. And what does nuclear winter have to do with rising sea levels? But please, entertain us some more and show where nuclear winter doesn't exist. I'm sure you have a Faux news link for that too, lol.

Ok, this is what the National Academey of Science has to say about scientific theory. This was originally written to address creationist nonsense but it still applies in all other cases.

"Many people learned in elementary school that a theory falls in the middle of a hierarchy of certainty--above a mere hypothesis but below a law. Scientists do not use the terms that way, however. According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses." No amount of validation changes a theory into a law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature. So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution--or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter--they are not expressing reservations about its truth.

In addition to the theory of evolution, meaning the idea of descent with modification, one may also speak of the fact of evolution. The NAS defines a fact as "an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as 'true.'" The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time. Although no one observed those transformations, the indirect evidence is clear, unambiguous and compelling.

All sciences frequently rely on indirect evidence. Physicists cannot see subatomic particles directly, for instance, so they verify their existence by watching for telltale tracks that the particles leave in cloud chambers. The absence of direct observation does not make physicists' conclusions less certain."

I guess the fact that you could have went swimming in the NY subway system a few weeks ago doesn't register with you and your ilk, huh? Or that the flooding in Venice and London continually gets worse. That island nations like Micronesia are in danger of being wiped out by rising sea levels.

There's also the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or NOAA for short.

"The Center for Operational Oceanographic Products and Services has been measuring sea level for over 150 years, with tide stations of the National Water Level Observation Network operating on all U.S. coasts . Changes in Mean Sea Level (MSL), either a sea level rise or sea level fall, have been computed at 128 long-term water level stations using a minimum span of 30 years of observations at each location. These measurements have been averaged by month to remove the effect of higher frequency phenomena in order to compute an accurate linear sea level trend. The trend analysis has also been extended to a network of global tide stations."

Gee, only 150 years research on the subject I guess those hippies mustn't really know anything and influenced completely by the Green Lobby, huh? So what's their take on it?

"There is strong evidence that global sea level is now rising at an increased rate and will continue to rise during this century.

While studies show that sea levels changed little from AD 0 until 1900, sea levels began to climb in the 20th century.

The two major causes of global sea-level rise are thermal expansion caused by the warming of the oceans (since water expands as it warms) and the loss of land-based ice (such as glaciers and polar ice caps) due to increased melting.

Records and research show that sea level has been steadily rising at a rate of 1 to 2.5 millimeters (0.04 to 0.1 inches) per year since 1900.

This rate may be increasing. Since 1992, new methods of satellite altimetry (the measurement of elevation or altitude) indicate a rate of rise of 3 millimeters (0.12 inches) per year."

Ahh, it's probably all bullshit anyway. Can't trust any of these government types especially under a liberal government! It's all some vast left wing conspiracy! It has to be!

Lulz! Ahh, you guys in your unreality bubbles just kill me.
 
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"Nobody wants to be nobody in America. Ed is the apotheosis of a prevailing American syndrome. It used to be that someone became famous because they were special. Now people are considered special just for being famous. Fame, itself, is its own virtue.
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 16:51 Agent.X7
 
NegaDeath wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 16:40:
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 16:32:
You can't quote shit out of context. You're making arguments against something that was never said in the manner you think it was.

Nah your context was pretty clear.

"Any scientist that claims they know one way or the other is LYING. They are lying because they want to be right, or get grant money, or corporate money. Period. "

There are things that can be tested and unequivocally proven through science and need to be presented as such. I don't know enough about the climate to claim they're 100% correct but the idea no scientist can be completely sure about something is bunk.

I never said that NO SCIENTIST EVAR! could be 100% sure about ANYTHING.

But you took it out of context and claimed I did.
 
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22. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 16:40 NegaDeath
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 16:32:
You can't quote shit out of context. You're making arguments against something that was never said in the manner you think it was.

Nah your context was pretty clear.

Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 16:37:
How do you think knowledge is advanced? Look up Theoretical Biology for me. We theorize, we test, we re-theorize, we re-test.

Yes, and Theoretical Biology is different from plain Biology and once again a different method of testing and not comparable. But if you want to break it down to "theorize and test" then we're ALL scientists. Yay! High five.

This comment was edited on Nov 28, 2012, 16:51.
 
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21. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 16:39 Beamer
 
Wait, what's wrong with nuclear winter? How was that disproven? Did we have a large scale thermonuclear war and I missed it?

Last I heard we were still operating under the assumption that a massive trauma to the Earth, such as a comet strike, enormous volcanic eruption, or large scale nuclear war, could stir up enough debris to cause long-term sun blockage and winter-like effects.
 
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 16:37 Agent.X7
 
As for Stephen Hawking he's a theoretical physicist. The field of study is too different to be compared to climate science, or biology or geology or anything else that deals with our material world for that matter.

How do you think knowledge is advanced? Look up Theoretical Biology for me. We theorize, we test, we re-theorize, we re-test.
 
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19. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 16:35 Agent.X7
 
PHJF wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 16:23:
You could read the article (the actual study, not the shit from the guardian) before going off into talking point mode.

In conclusion, the rise in CO2 concentration and global temperature has continued to closely match the projections over the past five years, while sea level continues to rise faster than anticipated. The latter suggests that the 21st Century sea-level projections of the last two IPCC reports may be systematically biased low. Further support for this concern is provided by the fact that the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica are increasingly losing mass (Rignot et al 2011, Van den Broeke et al 2011), while those IPCC projections assumed that Antarctica will gain enough mass in future to largely compensate mass losses from Greenland (see figure 10.33 in Meehl et al (2007)). For this reason, an additional contribution ('scaled-up ice sheet discharge') was suggested in the IPCC fourth assessment. Our results highlight the need to thoroughly validate models with data of past climate changes before applying them to projections.

So when you're done ranting about how ego-driven scientists stubbornly ignore new data and how poor climate projection models are...

So, when you're done reading my response over and realizing it was a response to Cutter and not the article...
 
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18. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 16:32 Agent.X7
 
NegaDeath wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 16:23:
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 15:53:
You don't think GREEN is a HUGE business right now?

I see this argument a lot but it never makes sense to me. Ok so there's a lot of money in the green industry. There is an obscenely greater amount of money in "anti-green" industries...literally the most profitable industries on the whole planet. If money is your indicator of corruption then you have the wrong bad guy.

"Any scientist that claims they know one way or the other is LYING. They are lying because they want to be right, or get grant money, or corporate money. Period. "

There are things that can be tested and unequivocally proven through science and need to be presented as such. I don't know enough about the climate to claim they're 100% correct but the idea no scientist can be completely sure about something is bunk.

As for Stephen Hawking he's a theoretical physicist. The field of study is too different to be compared to climate science, or biology or geology or anything else that deals with our material world for that matter.

You can't quote shit out of context. You're making arguments against something that was never said in the manner you think it was.
 
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