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Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs?

A post on SemiAccurate breaks down some information from PC Watch (translation) suggesting that Intel's upcoming Broadwell CPUs will be soldered to the motherboard, rather than socketed, a detail they have now confirmed with a pair of OEMs. They offer the distressed opinion that this will be a death knell to the desktop PC and the enthusiast market, and though they add that they've received information indicating there's a "good chance" that the Sky Lake processors that will follow Broadwell will be socketed for one or two generations to follow, they conclude: "By then the last remaining overclockers and experimenters on the PC front will be gone, and for good technical reasons." Thanks Ant via Slashdot.

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101 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 2.
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81. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 20:49 Dades
 
PHJF wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 20:13:
Slick...


... you are batshit insane.

He's also in dire need of owning a personal computer with a shift key, maybe they can integrate the keyboard into the motherboard for him.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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80. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 20:31 Tom
 
PHJF wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 20:13:
Slick...


... you are batshit insane.

It's an artform. One cannot help but marvel.
 
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79. removed Nov 27, 2012, 20:13 PHJF
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Nov 27, 2012, 21:25.
 
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78. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 19:34 Slick
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 17:55:
Kosumo wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 17:23:
Competition can be good, Competition can be taken to far and be bad, both happen.

To think that competition is alway good is very dangerous.

Or to think choice is always a good thing.

It can be, sure. It would be impossible to make one drink that the entire world liked, so more choice is better.

For other things it can be worse. In the 80s and into the early 90s we had plenty of choice about OS and system. Then it became just DOS. I'd argue this made life better for gamers. Yes, the OS risked stagnation, but we no longer had to worry about Amiga getting a game our PC didn't. Everything was PC. Any game you wanted to play you could.
It was a benefit from lack of choice.


Sometimes, sometimes, those tradeoffs are worthwhile.

exactly my point, things aren't always black and white the way some people would like to spin it. there are countless examples where more choice isn't a good thing, take the current behaviour by american doctors:

Instead of saying: "you have cancer, the best chance you have to get rid of it is radiation and chemo", doctors can't say that anymore, they say: "there are many options, there's natural, homeopathic, chemical, radiation, literally hundreds of different treatment options" then they ask the PATIENT which course of treatment they want. cause the customer always knows best right? call me old fashioned, but up here in Canada we listen to our experts.

it's ludicrous! the ego has reached such gargantuan proportions that it's beginning to eat itself... when patients are instructing doctors on the choices that they feel are best for them, when these choices could lead to their own death. and the doctors are scared shitless over being sued if their recommended treatment path doesn't work, so they have to convey all the options, no matter how hilariously un-scientific. it's literally better to let the patient choose a fruitless treatment regimen, then have them die, than risk going against the uneducated patients choice with you know, real medicine.

it's just like teaching creationism in science class. there's a place for that, it's called church. school is for facts, not beliefs. teachers shouldn't be forced to "offer all alternative viewpoints" just because some backwoods parents wrote some angry letters to the principal.

no, choice isn't always good, it's mostly good, but then you have instances where there are experts who know a thing or two about the subject matter making educated decisions. only a fool would override these decisions to result in less effective results in the name of "consumer choice always wins"

This comment was edited on Nov 27, 2012, 19:42.
 
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77. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 18:20 Tom
 
AMD ain't the answer. They're trying to shift their focus away from CPUs for PCs. They haven't been competitive with Intel for a long time anyway. With even less focus / resources put into PC CPUs, I wouldn't expect too much out of them in the future.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ultramobile-tablet-apu-cpu,18546.html

The future is Intel vs. ARM. And ARM isn't going to be in gaming PCs anytime soon, so that just leaves Intel.
 
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76. Re: More Big Picture Details Nov 27, 2012, 18:11 HorrorScope
 
Good arguments all around.

I do find it funny a site "SemiAccurate" reports this.

It will sort itself out.

I try not to go full blown slippery slope.

Bottom line, I'll always go for price/performance, this news doesn't change that.

This comment was edited on Nov 27, 2012, 19:03.
 
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75. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 17:56 bigspender
 
wtf this has got to be a joke right?

So now when your motherboard has a minor problem, you can't just replace the mobo, you have to replace the $300 CPU as well?

AMD is looking good again.
 
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74. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 17:55 Beamer
 
Kosumo wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 17:23:
Competition can be good, Competition can be taken to far and be bad, both happen.

To think that competition is alway good is very dangerous.

Or to think choice is always a good thing.

It can be, sure. It would be impossible to make one drink that the entire world liked, so more choice is better.

For other things it can be worse. In the 80s and into the early 90s we had plenty of choice about OS and system. Then it became just DOS. I'd argue this made life better for gamers. Yes, the OS risked stagnation, but we no longer had to worry about Amiga getting a game our PC didn't. Everything was PC. Any game you wanted to play you could.
It was a benefit from lack of choice.


Sometimes, sometimes, those tradeoffs are worthwhile.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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73. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 17:54 Cutter
 
Kosumo wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 17:23:
Competition can be good, Competition can be taken to far and be bad, both happen.

To think that competition is alway good is very dangerous.

Oh pshaw! The reason we don't have 100 different companies to chose from for any manufactured product is because the overhead is too much for them to compete in any meaningful way. And the proverbial cream always rises to the top which is why we usually only have a handful of winners and a lot of losers in any market. And as it stands today we could use a lot more competition in most consumer products and services. Telecom, cable, cars, etc. I don't see any market segment today - or ever for that matter - where there's been a problem of too much competition.

 
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72. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 17:23 Kosumo
 
Competition can be good, Competition can be taken to far and be bad, both happen.

To think that competition is alway good is very dangerous.
 
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71. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 17:10 NegaDeath
 
Slick wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 17:02:
they're just brainwashed into thinking that choice is better, even when it hinders the actual performance of the product.

Slick wrote on Nov 5, 2012, 19:18:
you know how much of a knob you're making yourself sound like right? So it's not okay for there to be any soft-drink companies out there that don't "conform" to the Coca-Cola specification...

anti-competition much? fucking commie! since when is competition bad for the consumer?

I wholeheartedly agree Nov 5 Slick, conforming is bad, competition is good.
 
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70. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 17:02 Slick
 
NegaDeath wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 16:22:
Slick wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 15:35:
isn't this better than having 400 kinds of toothpaste to choose from?

Nope.

well lucky for you there will be 400,000+ flavors of AMD cpu/mobo combinations.

me, i'll take the chip that's soldered right onto the mobo it was DESIGNED to work with. 10-15 flavors is fiiiine by me. has anyone ever REALLY cared about their particular brand of motherboard? that their asus RoG gives a whopping 0.3% better FPS in games??? NO! no one really cares! they're just brainwashed into thinking that choice is better, even when it hinders the actual performance of the product.

how is it that hard to envision a possibility where the manufacturer is making a decision which benefits it customers? are all corporations inherantly evil? Intel is OBVIOUSLY only being greedy, and not at all thinking of the you know, science of putting together computers. your xbox called, it misses you.
 
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69. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 16:43 jdreyer
 
wtf_man wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 15:46:
I kind of see both sides to this.

I'm still running an LGA-775 Core 2 Duo.
Yes, I upgraded the CPU from an E6600 to an E8600.
It's still plenty fast, although there are a couple of games that could use another core.

So, for the next rig... I'm not sure I'd need a motherboard that let's me change the CPU, since any modern / decent quad core CPU should be plenty for the lifespan of the motherboard in question for gaming.

At the same time... I'd also like to have the choice of not having to upgrade both the motherboard and CPU at once.

Building gaming rigs aren't like they used to be. There's no real quantum leap in performance anymore, and going top-end parts / overclocking / multiple-gpu doesn't yeild enough performance advantage to be worth the money, IMO. I mean an i5 2500k or 3570k plus a $250 - $300 video card has been more than enough for 1080p in most games for years. (Thanks to consoles holding back the game development). Now Mobile gaming will probably keep it held back even longer.

Although I hate the idea that the CPU would be welded to the MB, it's true what you say about quantum leap in perf. This summer I went from an E6600/GTX460 to a core i5 / GTX 670 and noticed very little improvement in both speed and fidelity in the vast majority of games. You really only notice a difference in extremely high end games like BF3 and Rage, and it's pretty subtle at that.
 
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68. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 16:26 Lorcin
 
I don't have much issue here. I'm putting in a 2nd gaming PC this year (first hardware I've bought since my Alienware 30 months ago). We're going for cheap so am building from scratch.

My biggest issue is I can buy an i5-3350 and H61 chipset mobo but I can't be sure they'll work together as the mobo may need a bios update to support the newer processor (needing an older processer which I don't have). So the cost of the mobo has doubled to make it based on a H77 chipset.

Selling them as one unit makes sense to me, like other people have said even gamers tend to replace the mobo and cpu together.

 
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67. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 16:22 NegaDeath
 
Slick wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 15:35:
isn't this better than having 400 kinds of toothpaste to choose from?

Nope.
 
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66. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 15:46 wtf_man
 
Cutter wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 15:31:
Silicon Avatar wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 14:28:
But honestly, when was the last time anyone built a gaming rig and then decided "I want to upgrade just the cpu?"

All the effing time. When I build a new rig I save money on the CPU, RAM and vid card. I buy the best mobo I can precisely for longevity sake so that in a couple of years when all those top end CPUs/RAM/Vid Card have come down to a reasonable price I buy them and install them. That's how you do it.

I kind of see both sides to this.

I'm still running an LGA-775 Core 2 Duo.
Yes, I upgraded the CPU from an E6600 to an E8600.
It's still plenty fast, although there are a couple of games that could use another core.

So, for the next rig... I'm not sure I'd need a motherboard that let's me change the CPU, since any modern / decent quad core CPU should be plenty for the lifespan of the motherboard in question for gaming.

At the same time... I'd also like to have the choice of not having to upgrade both the motherboard and CPU at once.

Building gaming rigs aren't like they used to be. There's no real quantum leap in performance anymore, and going top-end parts / overclocking / multiple-gpu doesn't yeild enough performance advantage to be worth the money, IMO. I mean an i5 2500k or 3570k plus a $250 - $300 video card has been more than enough for 1080p in most games for years. (Thanks to consoles holding back the game development). Now Mobile gaming will probably keep it held back even longer.
 
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65. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 15:42 PropheT
 
Cutter wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 15:31:
All the effing time. When I build a new rig I save money on the CPU, RAM and vid card. I buy the best mobo I can precisely for longevity sake so that in a couple of years when all those top end CPUs/RAM/Vid Card have come down to a reasonable price I buy them and install them. That's how you do it.

That hasn't worked well in a long time, though, since they tend to change socket types with every major CPU release that comes out. It's just not much of a change to go from one LGA 1155 to another, as an example, and most of them have hardly changed prices since they came out; I built an i5-2500k system when they were brand new, and the price is maybe $20 different now than it was when I built it so even building around cost saving measures at the time of the original build doesn't work like it used to.

 
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64. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 15:35 Slick
 
yup, simplifying manufacturing if anything *should* bring costs down, not the other way around.

people are just addicted to the freedom of choice and feel like the right solution to any given problem is more choice = better results.

this simply isn't always true. there's over 400 kinds of toothpaste sold in america, now how do you know which is the best one for you? you'll always have buyers remorse. more choice actually results in less happiness.

i hate consoles, but PCs could learn something from them, they do their job incredibly efficiently, where it seems that PCs are the model of inefficiency. this move could actually help get better performance for us hardcore PC enthusiasts and gamers. isn't this better than having 400 kinds of toothpaste to choose from?
 
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63. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 15:31 Cutter
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Nov 27, 2012, 14:28:
But honestly, when was the last time anyone built a gaming rig and then decided "I want to upgrade just the cpu?"

All the effing time. When I build a new rig I save money on the CPU, RAM and vid card. I buy the best mobo I can precisely for longevity sake so that in a couple of years when all those top end CPUs/RAM/Vid Card have come down to a reasonable price I buy them and install them. That's how you do it.
 
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62. Re: Intel Killing Off Desktop/Enthusiast PCs? Nov 27, 2012, 15:26 avianflu
 
Again, laptops globally outsell desktops by a giant margin these days so there's a very clear precedent for Intel to simplify the manufacturing process for their desktop chips and boards. I see why Intel is doing it even if I dont like it.

Also, whoever said the ARM is dying? Not true at all! At this time, there's more than a dozen different manufacturers (and their name is not Intel) making ARM chips for all kinds of portable devices.
 
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