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Morning Tech Bits

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19. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 21, 2012, 04:42 Simon Says
 
Had my first encounter with Win8 today in a shop. I was shopping for keyboards and trying them out on running demonstrators.

So I go from machine to machine, hitting the windows button on the keyboard, arrow up, type "note", hit enter then do my thing on the keyboard to test the feeling.

Then I get to the Win8 one, notice the no "start" button... confused for a second, I try the hot corners, no "execute" anywhere... Bit stumped, I hit the windows key *facepalm* "tablet UI" pops up. I had to look closely for the "note" thingy that reminded me of that crappy android app that does pretty much the same thing. After about a minute of fiddling around I finally test the keyboard...

Didn't find notepad anywhere!

And I ain't a newcomer to computers, I had my beginnings in DOS...

Sticking to win7, ty very much!
 
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18. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 20, 2012, 09:33 Verno
 
NegaDeath wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 18:16:
Verno wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 16:00:
Also just a PSA for any Windows 8 gamers: fullscreen games still retain control of the display even while frozen. I have no clue why they changed this. This means a frozen game can force a reboot since you can't bring up Task Manager to force kill it for some reason. What I finally figured out was that they made Task Manager default "Always on top" to off when in every other version of Windows its on for precisely that reason. Tick it on and you can kill stuff again.

Thanks for the tip. Now if only someone could mod Aero Glass back in I'd be content. I've read that a guy was close to releasing that using code taken from earlier versions of 8 and supposedly MS sent him a DMCA. The current desktop color scheme is just so boring, it looks like windows 95.

Unfortunately Microsoft stripped out the DWM transparency code so I'm not sure how easy it would be to replace that. It also ignores a lot of the previous Win7 Aero settings so those would likely have to be re-implemented as well. I have no idea why they didn't just use the chromeless theme for low power devices and Aero for desktops, yet another tablet concession.
 
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17. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 20, 2012, 06:39 Julio
 
SectorEffector wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 14:46:
If you want win 8, download classic shell, disable hot corners and you ALMOST will never even know you're using win 8.

Or just skip using Win 8 entirely, and you'd never know you were using Win 8. I don't enjoy my OS so much that I want to disable most of its new offerings to make it usable.
 
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16. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 21:06 DukeFNukem
 
SectorEffector wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 14:46:
That entire croteam thread needed to die.


If you want win 8, download classic shell, disable hot corners and you ALMOST will never even know you're using win 8. Who gives a flying fuck if you don't have metro tile support for your game, seriously nobody fucking cares about that shit unless your a 13 yr old girl or really desperately reaching out for anything to change UI wise.

Classic Shell, Win 8 with OG start menu. No change in my workflow.

once classic shell doesn't work... then I'm gonna bitch....


Yeah, thats just what I wanna do. Go out and buy Windows 8 and then do everything in my power to make it behave exactly like Windows 7 because...IT BOOTS FASTER! *big yawn*

...waiting patiently on Windows 9.

This comment was edited on Nov 19, 2012, 21:21.
 
Just because you aren't afraid of something doesn't it mean it can't kill you...
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15. Re: More Big Picture Details Nov 19, 2012, 20:30 HorrorScope
 
So you are telling me I can have say Excel and the Internet visible at the same time in Win 8? That can't be right.  
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14. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 20:17 DukeFNukem
 
This article knocks the ball out of the park. Windows 8 is a complete failure from the perspective of a desktop power user. I have never even tried it. I came close to installing it when I downloaded the preview .ISO but my sixth sense kept telling me, no, don't do it. It's a tablet OS for Gods sake. I was right. But what I didn't realize is that it even appears to be a failure from a novice users perspective as well. Way to go Microsoft. Well done!

Anyone defending Windows 8 at this point in the game is just in denial. "No, NO, IT CANT SUCK. IT CANT BE!!!!!!!! It's NEW, How could it suck if it's NEW!!! IT BOOTS FASTER, How could it suck if it BOOTS FASTER!!!. Sure the Metro interface sucks and is completely un-intuitive for a desktop user. And sure the interface has a significant impact on the usability of the operating system. Oh, and sure, as the article states, Microsoft Windows 8 should be renamed Microsoft Window. But...but...but...IT BOOTS FASTER!!!" *godfather music plays in background as Windows 8 defenders break down in tears*

This comment was edited on Nov 19, 2012, 20:34.
 
Just because you aren't afraid of something doesn't it mean it can't kill you...
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13. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 18:26 Draugr
 
Steele Johnson wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 16:42:
I'm loving Win8 with my new system. 10 second boot time and even shutting down is almost like turning off a light switch. The resourse management is reasly good and all my games seem to perform really well. I was surprised that all my drivers worked when they did. IMO, this is the best Win OS yet. And who really cares about the tiles? I just go directly to the desk top app when the system launches. I really don't know what all the fuss is about. The Windows key finally makes sense now.

So you're big selling point is boot times?

Seems to me like you would have been better off running windows 7 off of a 64gb SSD, and it would have cost as much as upgrading to windows 8, but instead you'd still have the snappy boot times AND you wouldn't need to go through the hassle of extra steps to get to the UI you're using anyway (The desktop.)
 
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12. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 18:16 NegaDeath
 
Verno wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 16:00:
Also just a PSA for any Windows 8 gamers: fullscreen games still retain control of the display even while frozen. I have no clue why they changed this. This means a frozen game can force a reboot since you can't bring up Task Manager to force kill it for some reason. What I finally figured out was that they made Task Manager default "Always on top" to off when in every other version of Windows its on for precisely that reason. Tick it on and you can kill stuff again.

Thanks for the tip. Now if only someone could mod Aero Glass back in I'd be content. I've read that a guy was close to releasing that using code taken from earlier versions of 8 and supposedly MS sent him a DMCA. The current desktop color scheme is just so boring, it looks like windows 95.
 
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11. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 16:42 Steele Johnson
 
I'm loving Win8 with my new system. 10 second boot time and even shutting down is almost like turning off a light switch. The resourse management is reasly good and all my games seem to perform really well. I was surprised that all my drivers worked when they did. IMO, this is the best Win OS yet. And who really cares about the tiles? I just go directly to the desk top app when the system launches. I really don't know what all the fuss is about. The Windows key finally makes sense now.  
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10. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 16:00 Verno
 
In relation to the usability, I stand by my comment.

A lot of people will get Windows 8 by default and those are the type of people who have no idea to "just install classic shell" or whatever. The UI study was examining how effective the user interface was and it has a lot of issues unfortunately. There is a lot they can do to fix it but traditionally Microsoft doesn't do that sort of thing until the next OS.

Also just a PSA for any Windows 8 gamers: fullscreen games still retain control of the display even while frozen. I have no clue why they changed this. This means a frozen game can force a reboot since you can't bring up Task Manager to force kill it for some reason. What I finally figured out was that they made Task Manager default "Always on top" to off when in every other version of Windows its on for precisely that reason. Tick it on and you can kill stuff again.

This comment was edited on Nov 19, 2012, 16:10.
 
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9. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 15:58 Wowbagger_TIP
 
I'm sticking with Win 7. It works well for me and I see no reason to give myself a headache by switching to 8. While it may offer a few improvements, it's overall a misstep for the PC desktop.  
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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8. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 15:55 wtf_man
 
SectorEffector wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 14:46:
That entire croteam thread needed to die.


If you want win 8, download classic shell, disable hot corners and you ALMOST will never even know you're using win 8.

Why the fuck would I support MS with money for a UI that I don't want... then go change it?
The last thing I want is for MS to get the message that their new UI is a Success through sales reports that doesn't show all the people that have used work arounds to "Fix" their new OS.
 
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7. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 15:37 SectorEffector
 
Offbase on the sense of being related to the croteam thread sure.

In relation to the usability, I stand by my comment.


 
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6. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 15:23 Verno
 
SectorEffector wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 14:46:
If you want win 8, download classic shell, disable hot corners and you ALMOST will never even know you're using win 8. Who gives a flying fuck if you don't have metro tile support for your game, seriously nobody fucking cares about that shit unless your a 13 yr old girl or really desperately reaching out for anything to change UI wise.

Croteam is a developer interested in where the market is headed and where their customers might be. A totally different perspective from someone concerned about the Windows UI. They aren't concerned with "supporting Tiles" so much as potentially releasing WinRT games at some point without a forced cut and vendor lock in. Given the popularity of other walled gardens both in videogame land and outside of it, I find your comment completely offbase.

As for disabling Metro in Windows 8, the majority of users likely won't have any awareness of third party alternatives so they will have to deal with the odd juxtaposition of Metro/Desktop on a daily basis. Besides, the article is a very interesting read about the usability issues that users are having with it based on an independent study. The author isn't trying to dogpile Windows 8 or something, it's academic.
 
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5. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 15:07 Draugr
 
SectorEffector wrote on Nov 19, 2012, 14:46:
That entire croteam thread needed to die.


If you want win 8, download classic shell, disable hot corners and you ALMOST will never even know you're using win 8. Who gives a flying fuck if you don't have metro tile support for your game, seriously nobody fucking cares about that shit unless your a 13 yr old girl or really desperately reaching out for anything to change UI wise.

Classic Shell, Win 8 with OG start menu. No change in my workflow.

once classic shell doesn't work... then I'm gonna bitch....



Then you don't want windows 8, do you? Instead of paying MS money so you can turn win8 into a gimped win7, you COULD just stick with win7. Why people bend over to make a new OS like the old OS they already own and want to use anyway is beyond me. Commments like yours just further highlights the bad UI decisions.


You've apparently missed the point the croteam thread was trying to make.
 
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4. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 14:46 SectorEffector
 
That entire croteam thread needed to die.


If you want win 8, download classic shell, disable hot corners and you ALMOST will never even know you're using win 8. Who gives a flying fuck if you don't have metro tile support for your game, seriously nobody fucking cares about that shit unless your a 13 yr old girl or really desperately reaching out for anything to change UI wise.

Classic Shell, Win 8 with OG start menu. No change in my workflow.

once classic shell doesn't work... then I'm gonna bitch....

 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q2iICtlIc
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3. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 12:30 PropheT
 
This is exactly what quite a few of us were trying to point out in the Croteam thread a few days ago.
 
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2. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 11:46 Verno
 
Interesting to see those conclusions (resulting from truly independent trial and studies for a change) from someone who researches and works on user interfaces for a living. Reaffirms a lot of criticisms about the current Metro implementation. I like that he nailed the low information density problem for desktop users, I've been bitching about how tablet and desktop interfaces are practically at odds by their nature alone and that's a great example of how.  
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1. Re: Morning Tech Bits Nov 19, 2012, 11:22 NegaDeath
 
"Windows 8 Disappointing Usability for Both Novice & Power Users."

Nod
 
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