Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

Croteam on Windows 8 Issues

A post on the Steam Users' Forums from a couple of weeks ago offers a distressing overview of Windows 8 from Croteam (thanks Gamer's Hell), as Alen Ladavac says: "I would very much like to clear this one thing. I think that this is very important as there are 'under the hood' motions related to Windows 8 that are hidden and not well understood even by many developers (yet), and certainly not by most gamers." Saying "Gabe Newel did not overreact," he goes on to describe how "under the hood, the new tiled UI is a means for Microsoft to lock Windows applications into a walled garden, much like the one on iOS." Here's more:

There is this "small detail" that Microsoft is not advertising anywhere, but you can find it dug deep in the developer documentation:

One cannot release a tiled UI application by any other means, but only through Windows Store!

I cannot even begin to stress out just how horrible this idea is! There is no side-loading, except for corporate use inside one company, and that works only on the enterprise edition of Windows 8. Do we all understand what that means? You cannot download an application from the Internet and run it on your computer. You have to get it from Microsoft's store. Even if it is a free app!

If it was just about "being downloaded from Windows store", it would not be a problem. It would be nice to have a common hub to download things from. But to get an app onto that store, it has to be certified by MS. This means bringing the "console experience" onto your desktop. Each app that you will get through the Windows Store will have to adhere to certain requirements imposed by MS. So far, we know that they've banned mature games, like Skyrim, CoD, and Serious Sam.[*] They have forbidden modding. They could very well forbid Open Source if they want. But even if these terms were not there, this is still a certification system. With all of its downsides, including uncertain release dates, rare and late patches, and everything turning out to be more expensive and sucking more.

While, theoretically, desktop applications are exempt from these requirements, it looks more and more like just a foot-in-the-door technique. A large number of developers have expressed their concern with possibility that, probably in Windows 9 or something like that, the ability to get even desktop apps in any other way than through Windows app store may very well be removed. When that happens it will be too late.

I would not invest into supporting the tiled UI apps (which MS now conveniently calls "Windows Store apps" - does that ring a bell?), until MS removes the requirement that they have to be shipped through Windows Store on desktop at least - and thereby remove the requirement of certifying them with MS. Certification is a broken concept and should be abolished.

Now, while in current state Windows 8 do look like they support plain desktop apps seamlessly, the removal of start menu and use of "charms" even on the desktop looks like a pretty blunt attempt to force users to "get used" to the tiled UI. It would be fine by me if it wasn't for the aforementioned certification issue.

So, it is a vicious circle. And not an accidental one. This one was carefully designed to be that way. I say: no thank you, I'll skip on that one.

* (Our footnote, not Alen's): He seems to have missed this story).

View
153 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 8.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ] Older >

13. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:40 Prez
 
One cannot release a tiled UI application by any other means, but only through Windows Store!

How many times have I heard this would not be the case by people here pitching Windows 8 as the greatest thing since sliced bread? No way in hell I'm buying Windows 8, or any other Windows OS ever if this is where they are headed. Time to start learning Linux.
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
12. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:38 Mashiki Amiketo
 
I wonder if they've ever written any apps for which go into apples "walled garden" and if they feel the same way. Or if it's only MS that they have this problem with. Personally I have no problem with certification as long as it's either free, or comes out of the cost of the product sold(3% should be more than enough). But MS seems to be taking the DLsite.com(nsfw) approach which is 40-50%. With friends that publish their games on dlsite, that margin is steep.

Though MS is going to realize that this is a failure, even Google is implementing a check system for their app store. But at least you can sideload without going through them if you want.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
11. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:36 Dades
 
DrSquick wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:31:
I don't get what all the hoopla is about, I only look at the start menu for a couple seconds; I dragged all my important apps to the left side, so I hit the windows key, and click the app I want, then the metro interface goes away. I'm guessing this is about people who want to make fullscreen metro games?

WinRT developed apps are what he was referring to. They can only be obtained from the microsofts shitty store, you cannot install them any other way. The big deal is that microsoft is forcing themselves into a 30% cut from game developers revenues. They are also forcing developers into certification.

It is inexcusable, I doubt even the biggest microsoft buttboys around here would defend the inability of a user to install their own applications. That's a pretty basic concept and one that the PC was founded on, I don't need microsoft or apple acting like the system administration of my machine. The best way devs can fight it is to ignore microsofts store platform and think about alternatives.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

 
Avatar 54452
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
10. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:31 DrSquick
 
Perhaps I am being a bit dense here, but what is a "tiled UI application?" I am running Windows 8 and have never even looked at the Microsoft Store. I am running Steam, some humble bundle games, some uncertified utilities that pop up like Windows 7 does and say the publisher is unknown. They all work fine.

Is a "tiled UI application" something that only works in Metro? Is this related to the Windows ARM tablets only?

I don't get what all the hoopla is about, I only look at the start menu for a couple seconds; I dragged all my important apps to the left side, so I hit the windows key, and click the app I want, then the metro interface goes away. I'm guessing this is about people who want to make fullscreen metro games?
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
9. Re: More Big Picture Details Nov 17, 2012, 14:26 HorrorScope
 
This does make it clearer for me in understanding. That said it is still assuming nothing but a slippery slope. We'll see, it's not like I'm buying Win 8 to support it anywho. So I've done my part I reckon, will that be enough?  
Avatar 17232
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
8. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:22 Cutter
 
The only walled gardens I like are walled gardens.

 
Avatar 25394
 
"Bye weeks? Bronko Nagurski didn't get no bye weeks, and now he's dead… Well, maybe they're a good thing." - Moe
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
7. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:19 Flatline
 
Beelzebud wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:14:
Lokust wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:02:
The more I read about windows 8, the more I think it is going to be a powerful force in driving the sales of new Apple computers. And I say that as someone who hates Apple...

It's going to be a powerful force in driving PC owners to just install Linux on their machines. With Nvidia and AMD both putting a lot of work in to the drivers, and Valve about to put Steam on it, I can see more people just switching to the free OS than buying overpriced Mac hardware.

Or I could just... you know... stick with windows 7 and skip Win8 entirely. Like most of us did with Vista. I don't even have to fuck with linux distros at that point.

And I have 200+ games on Steam, Linux isn't an appealing option until a good portion of them can run native without me fucking with the OS for hours on end.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
6. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:16 Beelzebud
 
nin wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:02:
Welcome to two months ago, Croteam!

Let's not give in to the ADD nature of our society. Just because this was known 2 months ago by some, doesn't mean it isn't worth talking about now. After all, a lot of people dismissed Valve's concerns, simply because Valve has Steam. Maybe if enough developers shout this from the rooftops, MS will give in on their plans.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
5. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:14 Beelzebud
 
Lokust wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:02:
The more I read about windows 8, the more I think it is going to be a powerful force in driving the sales of new Apple computers. And I say that as someone who hates Apple...

It's going to be a powerful force in driving PC owners to just install Linux on their machines. With Nvidia and AMD both putting a lot of work in to the drivers, and Valve about to put Steam on it, I can see more people just switching to the free OS than buying overpriced Mac hardware.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
4. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:03 MajorD
 

I had my suspicions. Let the games begin.....

 
Avatar 55780
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
3. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:02 nin
 

Welcome to two months ago, Croteam!

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
2. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:02 Lokust
 
The more I read about windows 8, the more I think it is going to be a powerful force in driving the sales of new Apple computers. And I say that as someone who hates Apple...  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
1. Re: Croteam on Windows 8 Issues Nov 17, 2012, 14:01 RailWizard
 
Guess it's time for the early adopters to get an abortion and then perhaps enjoy a fine meal of crow.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
153 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 8.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo