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Evening Consolidation

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11. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 18, 2012, 01:52 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:57:

Problems with your post:
1) They never released without a HDD. They released with a 4GB HDD. There's a big difference between "no storage" and "4GB of storage"

Stop doing your whole "this is what I believe, therefore it is reality" spiel, and take the five seconds to check some facts on wikipedia. The Xbox 360 core edition released WITHOUT HD STORAGE. It was such a fucking stupid move on their part that they quickly tossed that idea. Everyone was bitching at them about that at the time. Do you not remember this or something?

So, unlike what you said, there HAS actually been a console manufacturer fucking stupid enough to ship with wildly diverging SKUs, and said manufacturer is MICROSOFT.

Xbox 360 Core

The Xbox 360 Core was an entry level Xbox 360 which was later replaced with the "Arcade". Although available at launch in other regions, it was not available in Japan until November 2, 2006.[28] The Core system came bundled with composite video cables, capable of only SDTV resolutions. It was however capable of the same HDTV resolutions (up to 1080i) as the other models when connected to a separately sold component cable. In October 2006, 1080p support was added for all models in a system update,[29] including the "Core" using either the component cable, or the new VGA cable (although 1080p via component was not widely supported by televisions). It may also utilize a separately sold Xbox 360 hard drive. Unlike all other SKUs, it shipped with a wired version of the Xbox 360 controller, instead of the wireless version found in other SKUs.



2) There's an enormous difference between storage and RAM. Video game consoles historically, and still today, do not require installing. They stream from the media to the RAM. Even the PS3, which allows installing, does not necessitate it and, in many cases, is actually slowed by doing it

This has nothing to do with what I said, and the lack of a HD SKU was, in fact, a thing that was complained about by multiple devs, because they HAD to program their games as if the 360 didn't have a HD.

3) When programming, you need to know exactly how much RAM is available. It makes enormous differences in the capabilities of a game. HDD space? Not so much

Which is again plain simply ignoring that you said that no manufacturer would ever be so stupid as to do this, and yet Microsoft has in fact been exactly that fucking stupid.

Also, I'm pretty sure that if we asked an actual game dev, they'd say that not knowing whether the game had to stream from disc or could be installed to HD might be a bit more annoying than whether they have 4 or 8 gig of RAM available, since no game today even uses 8 gig.

Microsoft was cheap here, but it wasn't a blatant fuck-up. Releasing with varying RAM would be, because it would penalize those spending more for more RAM.

Which Microsoft gives exactly zero fucking shits about. Microsoft is the fucking KING of releasing 19,748,000 different fucking SKUs in everything.


And I was the one who, when people in another thread were saying the Surface RT was "good marketing" was calling it a massive marketing fuck up, so yeah, I think it's safe to say I don't defend Microsoft whenever possible.

You were also, about two weeks before that, going on and on and on about how the Surface was such a clever device and how it would totally resonate with corporate users. Rolleyes

It's just some people on this board have their minds so made up that everything Microsoft does is wrong and evil and stupid, even when the person making the post has no clue what's going on and is actually being pretty wrong and stupid themselves. It's like some people jump all over themselves to see who can bash Micrsoft, or certain other companies, more, then babble on about how great a different company doing the same things are.


Yeah, whatever. Microsoft in fact did exactly the fucking thing you're pretending they didn't, but hey, keep calling other people stupid and dumb and saying they have no clue what they're talking about.

Creston
 
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10. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 19:48 Crustacean Soup
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:57:
1) They never released without a HDD. They released with a 4GB HDD. There's a big difference between "no storage" and "4GB of storage"

Not true. The Xbox 360 "Core" shipped without a hard drive. The new low-end Xbox 360 ships with 4GB of flash memory. Accordingly, Microsoft's rules still state that a developer still is not allowed to count on there being some minimum amount of space available for caching.

Beamer wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:57:
3) When programming, you need to know exactly how much RAM is available. It makes enormous differences in the capabilities of a game. HDD space? Not so much

If you're provided with guaranteed HDD space for caching (the first Xbox had a dedicated cache partition for this purpose), you can pull things off the optical drive that you'll need to stream in later. Halo 1 and 2 did this, among games.


(If the new console has a bunch more RAM, the whole thing with needing to stream stuff in on-demand because it can't fit in memory is going to be helped quite a bit)
 
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9. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 13:57 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:34:
Beamer wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:56:
Ratty wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:34:
Bet wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:12:
Ratty wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 06:09:
New Xbox: It's just rumor but if true 8 gigs of RAM is good news for PC gamers.
16 times more RAM than currently used?! Console gamers' eyes will tell them they're seeing the face of God!
I do hope it isn't for some delux edition or something with "starter" editions having considerably less. We'd be faced with developers designing for the lowest common denominator once more.

Why would you even think this? How many companies have ever, ever done this? Nintendo, and it was a failure.

Everyone console manufacturer knows that, if it isn't in every box, it may as well not exist.

Everyone console manufacturer knows that. Oh, except Microsoft. Remember when the Xbox360 came out, and they had SKUs without hard disks and SKUs WITH hard disks? So yeah, this is actually the company that has already DONE something that fucking stupid.

Do you WORK for Microsoft or something? You come to their defense every single chance you get, even about things that Microsoft just blatantly fucked up on.

Creston

Problems with your post:
1) They never released without a HDD. They released with a 4GB HDD. There's a big difference between "no storage" and "4GB of storage"
2) There's an enormous difference between storage and RAM. Video game consoles historically, and still today, do not require installing. They stream from the media to the RAM. Even the PS3, which allows installing, does not necessitate it and, in many cases, is actually slowed by doing it
3) When programming, you need to know exactly how much RAM is available. It makes enormous differences in the capabilities of a game. HDD space? Not so much

Microsoft was cheap here, but it wasn't a blatant fuck-up. Releasing with varying RAM would be, because it would penalize those spending more for more RAM.

And I was the one who, when people in another thread were saying the Surface RT was "good marketing" was calling it a massive marketing fuck up, so yeah, I think it's safe to say I don't defend Microsoft whenever possible. It's just some people on this board have their minds so made up that everything Microsoft does is wrong and evil and stupid, even when the person making the post has no clue what's going on and is actually being pretty wrong and stupid themselves. It's like some people jump all over themselves to see who can bash Micrsoft, or certain other companies, more, then babble on about how great a different company doing the same things are.

I mostly dislike and distrust all companies equally. While some stand out as pretty good, they all make selfish decisions (Valve suddenly championing Linux), stupid decisions (Microsoft not being clear in what Surface RT is and is not), evil decisions (Google and all of your data), etc. Some people just start thinking every single decision a company makes is one of the above, even when clearly not, tries to manufacture evidence it is, even when it isn't shown to be, and starts hearing something benign and fabricating totally outlandish scenarios that have next to no chance of being true as being an almost-certainty. Like, if there was a headline that Valve was going to be giving 50% of HL3 revenues to charity, someone here would invariably make a claim that it's got to be some evil, nefarious charity or some other terrible purpose, or they'd claim that Valve was going to charge 50% more, or whatever.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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8. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 13:34 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:56:
Ratty wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:34:
Bet wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:12:
Ratty wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 06:09:
New Xbox: It's just rumor but if true 8 gigs of RAM is good news for PC gamers.
16 times more RAM than currently used?! Console gamers' eyes will tell them they're seeing the face of God!
I do hope it isn't for some delux edition or something with "starter" editions having considerably less. We'd be faced with developers designing for the lowest common denominator once more.

Why would you even think this? How many companies have ever, ever done this? Nintendo, and it was a failure.

Everyone console manufacturer knows that, if it isn't in every box, it may as well not exist.

Everyone console manufacturer knows that. Oh, except Microsoft. Remember when the Xbox360 came out, and they had SKUs without hard disks and SKUs WITH hard disks? So yeah, this is actually the company that has already DONE something that fucking stupid.

Do you WORK for Microsoft or something? You come to their defense every single chance you get, even about things that Microsoft just blatantly fucked up on.

Creston
 
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7. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 12:56 Beamer
 
Ratty wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:34:
Bet wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:12:
Ratty wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 06:09:
New Xbox: It's just rumor but if true 8 gigs of RAM is good news for PC gamers.
16 times more RAM than currently used?! Console gamers' eyes will tell them they're seeing the face of God!
I do hope it isn't for some delux edition or something with "starter" editions having considerably less. We'd be faced with developers designing for the lowest common denominator once more.

Why would you even think this? How many companies have ever, ever done this? Nintendo, and it was a failure.

Everyone console manufacturer knows that, if it isn't in every box, it may as well not exist.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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6. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 12:34 Ratty
 
Bet wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 12:12:
Ratty wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 06:09:
New Xbox: It's just rumor but if true 8 gigs of RAM is good news for PC gamers.
16 times more RAM than currently used?! Console gamers' eyes will tell them they're seeing the face of God!
I do hope it isn't for some delux edition or something with "starter" editions having considerably less. We'd be faced with developers designing for the lowest common denominator once more.
 
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5. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 12:12 Bet
 
Ratty wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 06:09:
New Xbox: It's just rumor but if true 8 gigs of RAM is good news for PC gamers.
16 times more RAM than currently used?! Console gamers' eyes will tell them they're seeing the face of God!
 
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4. Re: More Big Picture Details Nov 17, 2012, 10:54 HorrorScope
 
Fantaz wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 09:30:
"run Blu-Ray discs" I call B.S. Why would M$ allow their console to play their competitors disc format?

It's the standard. They've supported many standard devices that their competitors benefit from. The next-gen format wars is over, its settled. Blu Ray won.

Yes 8 Gig Ram is the win PC gamers are looking at here.
 
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3. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 10:42 kanniballl
 
Fantaz wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 09:30:
"run Blu-Ray discs" I call B.S. Why would M$ allow their console to play their competitors disc format?

I'd say it's quite possible. I'd be fine with an SSD solution: fast, QUIET, and small things. But I'm probably the minority.

HD-DVD died a pretty hard death. it was a coin-flip for a while, but it died. It's probably not worth them dusting off manufacturing for that.

Meanwhile, DVD is pretty small storage now-a-days. It's not TOO bad for compressed install files but if you want uncompessed-ish textures and stuff it fills quickly. Going BluRay would give them more space.

It's expensive to come up with and manufacture a new format of something; especially at the beginning.

So their choices are really:
  • DVD, with the size limitations requiring multiple DVDs per game

  • BluRay, which requires them giving a royalty to Sony

  • Some sort of solid-state chip thing


  • And it all comes down to: do they still want a "disc" player so they have a shot at limited backwards-compatibility AND roping in some users that want an all-in-one device (Gaming + Netflix + DVDs/BluRay).

    Or do they want to take the first step and be the first non-portable console to go with SSD chips. Haters might start saying "MS is taking a step backwards to cartridges... they're selling remodeled Ataris LOL LOL"




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    "Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
    -Fry, Futurama
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    2. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 09:30 Fantaz
     
    "run Blu-Ray discs" I call B.S. Why would M$ allow their console to play their competitors disc format?  
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    1. Re: Evening Consolidation Nov 17, 2012, 06:09 Ratty
     
    New Xbox: It's just rumor but if true 8 gigs of RAM is good news for PC gamers.  
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