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35. Re: etc. Nov 24, 2012, 16:03 Sepharo
 
Sepharo wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 19:18:
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 16:26:
Knew about the pledge but didn't know about the guy who created the pledge.
Ah well then...

I was more focused on the knuckleheads signing onto it than who drafted it. Don't get me wrong, I am staunchly against tax increases before some serious waste elimination, efficiency enhancement, and massive spending cuts in government are made, but it just seems stupid to sign a pledge that could, due to unforeseen future political realities, become impossible to adhere to. Now you are an oath-breaker AND a sellout.

Can't disagree with anything there. Hopefully we get some oath breakers or the middle class is looking at a tax increase.

Hooray
 
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34. Re: etc. Nov 19, 2012, 13:41 RollinThundr
 
Dades wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 20:06:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 18:15:
No it just means that they don't vote like a single mindless mass.

This.

When you're talking about the blame game, all I've heard for the past 4 years is how the entire global economy melt down is all Bush's fault and the last 2 years how it's all congress' fault. I have not once seen a single democrat take any ounce of responsibility. And that is flat out dishonest. You have a democratic president and senate who have yet to manage to pass a budget for the past 4 years and all I hear from your side is that it's the GOP or Bush's fault.

It is congresses fault, its literally their job to pass a budget. Talking about democrats as if they are other people isn't going to get you anywhere either. I'm sure many democrats will take responsibility for their role but will you? The election is over, it's time to start getting the country back on track. Going to sit around and bitch or help get things going? It starts with everyone, you talking to your rep and it keeps going up.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

When one of your budget proposals get's shot down 414-0, I think it's the proposal that's the problem not congress. If he had any economical sense, and he's clearly proven over the last 4 years he doesn't, he could propose a budget that would get enough votes to pass.
 
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33. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 20:06 Dades
 
Sepharo wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 18:15:
No it just means that they don't vote like a single mindless mass.

This.

When you're talking about the blame game, all I've heard for the past 4 years is how the entire global economy melt down is all Bush's fault and the last 2 years how it's all congress' fault. I have not once seen a single democrat take any ounce of responsibility. And that is flat out dishonest. You have a democratic president and senate who have yet to manage to pass a budget for the past 4 years and all I hear from your side is that it's the GOP or Bush's fault.

It is congresses fault, its literally their job to pass a budget. Talking about democrats as if they are other people isn't going to get you anywhere either. I'm sure many democrats will take responsibility for their role but will you? The election is over, it's time to start getting the country back on track. Going to sit around and bitch or help get things going? It starts with everyone, you talking to your rep and it keeps going up.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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32. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 19:18 Sepharo
 
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 16:26:
Knew about the pledge but didn't know about the guy who created the pledge.
Ah well then...

I was more focused on the knuckleheads signing onto it than who drafted it. Don't get me wrong, I am staunchly against tax increases before some serious waste elimination, efficiency enhancement, and massive spending cuts in government are made, but it just seems stupid to sign a pledge that could, due to unforeseen future political realities, become impossible to adhere to. Now you are an oath-breaker AND a sellout.

Can't disagree with anything there. Hopefully we get some oath breakers or the middle class is looking at a tax increase.
 
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31. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 19:10 Prez
 
Sorry, didn't mean to introduce some nuance to your right-wing talking points.

SWWWWIIIIIING ... and a miss. Clearly you are not to be taken seriously when you can't even be bothered to notice the very obvious fact that I am not right wing, nor do I talk in talking points. But keep cheering for "your team" (complete with condescending snobishness - YAY!), as if this was some sort of football game. Seriously, what relevance does that insipid wall of text have to do with my point? Pathetic partisan crap as usual.

Let me highlight the relevant parts for the reading impaired:

"Other Congresses and Administrations, both Democrat and Republican in the past have been able to negotiate and compromise to pass budgets without one side having total dominion of the legislative branch."

This comment was edited on Nov 17, 2012, 19:20.
 
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30. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 18:15 Sepharo
 
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 17:23:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 17:12:
Other Congresses and Administrations, both Democrat and Republican in the past have been able to negotiate and compromise to pass budgets without one side having total dominion of the legislative branch.

Politifact says:

Ornstein referred us to the gridlock of 2011 that resulted from the debate over raising the debt ceiling. The budget control act, which was passed to avoid a default on our debt and signed by Obama wasn’t a traditional budget resolution, Ornstein said. But he noted: "That was actually a budget adopted by a president."

Ornstein also noted that during George W. Bush’s presidency, there were years that Democrats in Congress failed to pass joint resolutions.

"To suggest that was Bush not passing a budget would be a misstatement," Ornstein said. He called Romney’s rap on Obama "at best a gross exaggeration."


In his speech, Romney faulted Obama for failing to pass a budget. He was correct that the two times Congress voted on the president’s budget requests, both times they were voted down. But the job of passing a budget resolution is not the president’s. That responsibility falls to Congress, and even then the president doesn’t sign it. As Ellis, our expert, put it: "The president has no role in passing a budget. The president can cajole Congress about passing a budget and advocate for positions and funding levels, but in the end, Congress approves the budget resolution for their own purposes." That’s the difference between this and other claims we’ve rated which blamed Congress for inaction on the budget.

Romney’s statement contains a grain of truth, in that two of Obama’s budget requests failed to pass. But citing those votes leaves a wrong impression -- namely that the votes were anything more than political theater. Romney omitted the more critical information that passing a federal budget is the job of Congress. Given all that, we rate his statement Mostly False.

Sorry, didn't mean to introduce some nuance to your right-wing talking points.

Maybe when he proposes a budget that's passable, it'll happen, when your own party votes against your budget proposals, that's an issue there isn't it?

No it just means that they don't vote like a single mindless mass.
 
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29. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 17:23 RollinThundr
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 17:12:
Other Congresses and Administrations, both Democrat and Republican in the past have been able to negotiate and compromise to pass budgets without one side having total dominion of the legislative branch.

Politifact says:

Ornstein referred us to the gridlock of 2011 that resulted from the debate over raising the debt ceiling. The budget control act, which was passed to avoid a default on our debt and signed by Obama wasn’t a traditional budget resolution, Ornstein said. But he noted: "That was actually a budget adopted by a president."

Ornstein also noted that during George W. Bush’s presidency, there were years that Democrats in Congress failed to pass joint resolutions.

"To suggest that was Bush not passing a budget would be a misstatement," Ornstein said. He called Romney’s rap on Obama "at best a gross exaggeration."


In his speech, Romney faulted Obama for failing to pass a budget. He was correct that the two times Congress voted on the president’s budget requests, both times they were voted down. But the job of passing a budget resolution is not the president’s. That responsibility falls to Congress, and even then the president doesn’t sign it. As Ellis, our expert, put it: "The president has no role in passing a budget. The president can cajole Congress about passing a budget and advocate for positions and funding levels, but in the end, Congress approves the budget resolution for their own purposes." That’s the difference between this and other claims we’ve rated which blamed Congress for inaction on the budget.

Romney’s statement contains a grain of truth, in that two of Obama’s budget requests failed to pass. But citing those votes leaves a wrong impression -- namely that the votes were anything more than political theater. Romney omitted the more critical information that passing a federal budget is the job of Congress. Given all that, we rate his statement Mostly False.

Sorry, didn't mean to introduce some nuance to your right-wing talking points.

Maybe when he proposes a budget that's passable, it'll happen, when your own party votes against your budget proposals, that's an issue there isn't it?
 
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28. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 17:12 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Other Congresses and Administrations, both Democrat and Republican in the past have been able to negotiate and compromise to pass budgets without one side having total dominion of the legislative branch.

Politifact says:

Ornstein referred us to the gridlock of 2011 that resulted from the debate over raising the debt ceiling. The budget control act, which was passed to avoid a default on our debt and signed by Obama wasn’t a traditional budget resolution, Ornstein said. But he noted: "That was actually a budget adopted by a president."

Ornstein also noted that during George W. Bush’s presidency, there were years that Democrats in Congress failed to pass joint resolutions.

"To suggest that was Bush not passing a budget would be a misstatement," Ornstein said. He called Romney’s rap on Obama "at best a gross exaggeration."


In his speech, Romney faulted Obama for failing to pass a budget. He was correct that the two times Congress voted on the president’s budget requests, both times they were voted down. But the job of passing a budget resolution is not the president’s. That responsibility falls to Congress, and even then the president doesn’t sign it. As Ellis, our expert, put it: "The president has no role in passing a budget. The president can cajole Congress about passing a budget and advocate for positions and funding levels, but in the end, Congress approves the budget resolution for their own purposes." That’s the difference between this and other claims we’ve rated which blamed Congress for inaction on the budget.

Romney’s statement contains a grain of truth, in that two of Obama’s budget requests failed to pass. But citing those votes leaves a wrong impression -- namely that the votes were anything more than political theater. Romney omitted the more critical information that passing a federal budget is the job of Congress. Given all that, we rate his statement Mostly False.

Sorry, didn't mean to introduce some nuance to your right-wing talking points.
 
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27. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 16:26 Prez
 
Knew about the pledge but didn't know about the guy who created the pledge.
Ah well then...

I was more focused on the knuckleheads signing onto it than who drafted it. Don't get me wrong, I am staunchly against tax increases before some serious waste elimination, efficiency enhancement, and massive spending cuts in government are made, but it just seems stupid to sign a pledge that could, due to unforeseen future political realities, become impossible to adhere to. Now you are an oath-breaker AND a sellout.
 
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26. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 14:55 Sepharo
 
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:44:
I didn't discredit your opinion entirely. I said it was hard to lend any weight to you not refuting RollingThundr's comments on responsibility and budgets when you were not aware of a pledge stating "no compromise" signed by the majority of Republicans.

For the record I didn't say I was unaware of the "pledge" - I was. I found it symbolic and meaningless and basically a non-issue. "Read my lips - no new taxes!" ring a bell? I didn't know who specifically this Norquist character was. When I looked into it, it started sounding like the same boogeyman crap the right is always pitching about billionaire leftist George Soros. Like I said, not interested.

Knew about the pledge but didn't know about the guy who created the pledge.
Ah well then...

I regret mentioning his name because you're right, boogeymen are silly. I just felt that more people are familiar with "Norquist" than "Americans for Tax Reform" and the "Taxpayer Protection Pledge". But I do take major issue with the pledge itself and it's not just symbolic. Going against it gets you labeled a RINO (their term).

You should stick to Wikipedia and a good mix of neutral international news. Typing "Norquist" in Google and ending up with a bunch of crazy liberal political blogs is not optimal. Let's just deal with the facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_for_Tax_Reform
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_soros
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros_conspiracy_theories

Sadly there is no article dealing with conspiracy theories on Norquist. As far as I know he's just a regular dude who hates taxes and wields a lot of influence in the GOP/Tea Party, haven't run across any crazy ideas about him yet.
 
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25. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 14:44 Prez
 
I didn't discredit your opinion entirely. I said it was hard to lend any weight to you not refuting RollingThundr's comments on responsibility and budgets when you were not aware of a pledge stating "no compromise" signed by the majority of Republicans.

For the record I didn't say I was unaware of the "pledge" - I was. I found it symbolic and meaningless and basically a non-issue. "Read my lips - no new taxes!" ring a bell? I didn't know who specifically this Norquist character was. When I looked into it, it started sounding like the same boogeyman crap the right is always pitching about billionaire leftist George Soros. Like I said, not interested.
 
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24. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 14:39 Sepharo
 
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:33:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:29:
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:27:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:19:
When you're talking about the blame game, all I've heard for the past 4 years is how the entire global economy melt down is all Bush's fault and the last 2 years how it's all congress' fault. I have not once seen a single democrat take any ounce of responsibility. And that is flat out dishonest. You have a democratic president and senate who have yet to manage to pass a budget for the past 4 years and all I hear from your side is that it's the GOP or Bush's fault.


Disagree all you want with Rolling Thunder because he's a conservative (a rare thing indeed on these boards it seems lately) but I find it hard to refute anything he said here.

It's hard to lend any weight to this Prez when you didn't know about Norquist and his pledge. That's what's prevented compromise.

Yeah on the left it's all Norquist, and on the right it's all George Soros. But that's right - discredit my opinion entirely because I didn't know or care to know anything about one of your boogeymen. I'm not much into boogeymen myself. Anyway despite what you guys claim the Republicans have stated that they are willing to close loopholes on top of reducing entitlements, but now that's not good enough either. Talk about moving the goalposts. Like I said, political discussions are all pointless. At least politicians and there spindoctors are paid to spin and spew rhetoric. What's everyone else's excuse?

Boogeyman? They're signing a pledge saying they won't compromise... No tax increases for any reason. It's a real thing, I get the feeling you still haven't looked into it.

I didn't discredit your opinion entirely. I said it was hard to lend any weight to you not refuting RollingThundr's comments on responsibility and budgets when you were not aware of a pledge stating "no compromise" signed by the majority of Republicans.
 
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23. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 14:38 RollinThundr
 
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:33:
Sepharo wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:29:
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:27:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:19:
When you're talking about the blame game, all I've heard for the past 4 years is how the entire global economy melt down is all Bush's fault and the last 2 years how it's all congress' fault. I have not once seen a single democrat take any ounce of responsibility. And that is flat out dishonest. You have a democratic president and senate who have yet to manage to pass a budget for the past 4 years and all I hear from your side is that it's the GOP or Bush's fault.


Disagree all you want with Rolling Thunder because he's a conservative (a rare thing indeed on these boards it seems lately) but I find it hard to refute anything he said here.

It's hard to lend any weight to this Prez when you didn't know about Norquist and his pledge. That's what's prevented compromise.

Yeah on the left it's all Norquist, and on the right it's all George Soros. But that's right - discredit my opinion entirely because I didn't know or care to know anything about one of your boogeymen. I'm not much into boogeymen myself. Anyway despite what you guys claim the Republicans have stated that they are willing to close loopholes on top of reducing entitlements (I thought grand poohbah overlord Norquist forbade this!), but now that's not good enough either. Talk about moving the goalposts. Like I said, political discussions are all pointless. At least politicians and there spindoctors are paid to spin and spew rhetoric. What's everyone else's excuse?

The GOP has also proposed more than 60 billion in military cuts. But that doesn't matter either, nothing is ever good enough for those on the left, it's their way, entitlements and all or noway.

I just hope I'm dead and buried before they succeed in turning the US into the shithole they so desire it to be.
 
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22. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 14:33 Prez
 
Sepharo wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:29:
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:27:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:19:
When you're talking about the blame game, all I've heard for the past 4 years is how the entire global economy melt down is all Bush's fault and the last 2 years how it's all congress' fault. I have not once seen a single democrat take any ounce of responsibility. And that is flat out dishonest. You have a democratic president and senate who have yet to manage to pass a budget for the past 4 years and all I hear from your side is that it's the GOP or Bush's fault.


Disagree all you want with Rolling Thunder because he's a conservative (a rare thing indeed on these boards it seems lately) but I find it hard to refute anything he said here.

It's hard to lend any weight to this Prez when you didn't know about Norquist and his pledge. That's what's prevented compromise.

Yeah on the left it's all Norquist, and on the right it's all George Soros. But that's right - discredit my opinion entirely because I didn't know or care to know anything about one of your boogeymen. I'm not much into boogeymen myself. Anyway despite what you guys claim the Republicans have stated that they are willing to close loopholes on top of reducing entitlements (I thought grand poohbah overlord Norquist forbade this!), but now that's not good enough either. Talk about moving the goalposts. Like I said, political discussions are all pointless. At least politicians and their spindoctors are paid to spin and spew rhetoric. What's everyone else's excuse?
 
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21. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 14:29 Sepharo
 
Prez wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 14:27:
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:19:
When you're talking about the blame game, all I've heard for the past 4 years is how the entire global economy melt down is all Bush's fault and the last 2 years how it's all congress' fault. I have not once seen a single democrat take any ounce of responsibility. And that is flat out dishonest. You have a democratic president and senate who have yet to manage to pass a budget for the past 4 years and all I hear from your side is that it's the GOP or Bush's fault.


Disagree all you want with Rolling Thunder because he's a conservative (a rare thing indeed on these boards it seems lately) but I find it hard to refute anything he said here.

It's hard to lend any weight to this Prez when you didn't know about Norquist and his pledge. That's what's prevented compromise.
 
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20. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 14:27 Prez
 
RollinThundr wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 13:19:
When you're talking about the blame game, all I've heard for the past 4 years is how the entire global economy melt down is all Bush's fault and the last 2 years how it's all congress' fault. I have not once seen a single democrat take any ounce of responsibility. And that is flat out dishonest. You have a democratic president and senate who have yet to manage to pass a budget for the past 4 years and all I hear from your side is that it's the GOP or Bush's fault.


Disagree all you want with Rolling Thunder because he's a conservative (a rare thing indeed on these boards it seems lately) but I find it hard to refute anything he said here. Other Congresses and Administrations, both Democrat and Republican in the past have been able to negotiate and compromise to pass budgets without one side having total dominion of the legislative branch.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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19. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 13:19 RollinThundr
 
Dades wrote on Nov 17, 2012, 09:52:
No one said the democrats are perfect but they have a plan for the country that doesn't consist of trying to remove women's rights, keeping America white and giving a ridiculous tax break to the already filthy rich. The democrats can be held accountable for their mistakes but only if republicans stop making complete asses out of themselves in the news and work with them politically so that they can make their own bed.

They're too busy with the self pity and the blame game to understand that there is something fundamentally wrong with the republican party that needs to be fixed before the public believes they can govern responsibly.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

Taking a couple of stupid comments made by republicans doesn't equal a war on woman's rights followed by the entire party. I consider myself a conservative, at least when it comes to fiscal responsibility and I honestly don't have any issues what so ever with a woman's right to choose.

When you're talking about the blame game, all I've heard for the past 4 years is how the entire global economy melt down is all Bush's fault and the last 2 years how it's all congress' fault. I have not once seen a single democrat take any ounce of responsibility. And that is flat out dishonest. You have a democratic president and senate who have yet to manage to pass a budget for the past 4 years and all I hear from your side is that it's the GOP or Bush's fault.

 
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18. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 09:52 Dades
 
No one said the democrats are perfect but they have a plan for the country that doesn't consist of trying to remove women's rights, keeping America white and giving a ridiculous tax break to the already filthy rich. The democrats can be held accountable for their mistakes but only if republicans stop making complete asses out of themselves in the news and work with them politically so that they can make their own bed.

They're too busy with the self pity and the blame game to understand that there is something fundamentally wrong with the republican party that needs to be fixed before the public believes they can govern responsibly.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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17. Re: etc. Nov 17, 2012, 06:40 Prez
 
It's just astounding to me that everyone is so obsessed with politics and agendas that EVERYTHING is the Republican's, the conservatives, the tea-partiers fault. Jesus tap-dancing Christ, they can't be blamed for everything. What is truly amazing is that the people here I know to be intelligent, rational, and insightful are some of the ones being so caught up in their political obsession and misplaced rage that they sound no smarter, logical, or rational than the clueless rednecks that live near me that wear "Buck Ofama" tee-shirts and sit in the McDonalds for hours blaming all the world's problem on "kids today" and liberals.

There's no doubt the Republicans deserved to get their asses handed to them because they are floundering, rudderless, and out of touch. But somehow they are still capable of masterfully orchestrating society's downfall. And according to the prevailing (and hopelessly clueless) mentality of Democrat sycophants the poor Democrats - those noble, altruistic champions who care oh-so-much about everyone had no hand in anything. Oh no, they were obstructed. They were undermined. If only they controlled everything life would be a bowl of frickin' cherries and society would be a utopia. Never mind that they have been unsuccessful in doing anything either despite being the majority party for much of the 20th century - NO blame is to be attributed to them. Oh no - we all know with 100% certainty that they are all gods among men who have all the answers and the purest of intentions. Never mind the failed social programs that offer almost no help to the needy and instead breed a cycle of dependency that robs people of their dignity (if they can even successfully wade through the miles of red tape beauracracy to get it at all) were largely their doing.

I've always believed that all logic and reason goes out the window when talking religion and politics, but this shit is still so beyond the pale it's passed right through laughable and directly into pathetic. It seems even adults believe in boogeymen after all.

This comment was edited on Nov 17, 2012, 06:48.
 
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16. Re: etc. Nov 16, 2012, 20:43 Grendle
 
^ This (post 14). Except for the cancer part. My brother died back in 2009 on September 16th at 12:10 AM and I don't wish that on anybody. His insurance tried to get out of paying the $8k/3week meds he was on. That will make most people flat broke instantly. It can happen to anyone at anytime. That is why you are clueless.



Edited for post number correction
 
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