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Grand Theft Auto V Trailer

Rockstar Games now offers the promised second trailer from Grand Theft Auto V, an NSFW look at the game's take on urban renewal, friendly strangers offering directions, borrowing a buddy's car, domestic bliss, youthful hijinks, modern slang, puppies, skydiving, and more.

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124. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 16, 2012, 18:40 2nd_floor
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 16, 2012, 03:41:
2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 20:49:
The latest games I've played (shooters anyway) have been mediocore console to PC ports (I would say anyway, most with checkpoint-only saves and very linear, corridor shooters): Crysis 2, Dead Island, Metro 2033, Homefront, F.E.A.R. 2 & 3, DNF, and Rage. Most of these games had VERY few graphical options for PC, and by no means are they using or pushing the limits of hardware of PCs like they used to.
Crysis 2 and Metro 2033 both included DX11 effects and pushed PC hardware. They used checkpoint-only saves but that was done for tension and I think they were better games because of it.

2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 20:49:
" publishers are realising that they can't get away with half-assed ports" I don't think this is the case at all! I think the opposite really. The list of games above are developers getting away with half efforts for the PC, and this is a few years running now, game after game.
While I would agree that had they been PC-exclusive they would have been much better on PC we have to also accept that had they been PC-exclusive then there wouldn't have been enough money to make them in the first place. However, we should demand that games released on PC are taken seriously. Max Payne 3, Borderlands 2, Dishonored, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, Alan Wake, Battlefield 3, DiRT2/3/Showdown and Batman: Arkham City all had great PC releases, with DX11 support being included in upcoming games like BioShock Infinite, Crysis 3, GRID 2, Metro: Last Light and Tomb Raider.

2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 20:49:
I think also with DRM/Online only/Steam/Origin taking so much freedom away from people to play and manage the games the way they want to (and when they want to), and now talk of developers disallowing mods. (PC gaming wouldn't be where it is today without mods, ridiculous thing to do by developers). If this continues, I've had it with PC gaming.
That's a personal decision but it doesn't reflect reality, as PC games used to ship with Analog Rights Management in the forum of: printed code sheets; code wheels; star constellations hidden behind magnifying glasses; code words hidden in the manual. Then they used to ship with draconian DRM, including: CD-checks, game crippling exe injections, etc. Services like Steam and Origin have actually IMPROVED the end user experience, as well as bringing down the price of games in real terms through sales. They are far from perfect and gamers will continue to demand more but Steam is one of the biggest reasons that PC gaming is doing as well as it is.

As for checkpoint only saves, they're a design feature - admittedly a contentious issue but one I actually support, despite being exclusively a PC gamer.

And finally, I think we can all agree that Microsoft is a pretty shitty company and its move into consoles have been to the detriment of PC.


Ok, fair enough. I think the consoles have really taken away from the PC. Does Steam actually reduce piracy? I can't say enough how frustrating Steam has been. Some games for PC are good, some are not, and I think often the console is to blame. Even mobile gaming is taking away from the PC, I think.
 
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123. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 16, 2012, 03:41 theyarecomingforyou
 
2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 20:49:
The latest games I've played (shooters anyway) have been mediocore console to PC ports (I would say anyway, most with checkpoint-only saves and very linear, corridor shooters): Crysis 2, Dead Island, Metro 2033, Homefront, F.E.A.R. 2 & 3, DNF, and Rage. Most of these games had VERY few graphical options for PC, and by no means are they using or pushing the limits of hardware of PCs like they used to.
Crysis 2 and Metro 2033 both included DX11 effects and pushed PC hardware. They used checkpoint-only saves but that was done for tension and I think they were better games because of it.

2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 20:49:
" publishers are realising that they can't get away with half-assed ports" I don't think this is the case at all! I think the opposite really. The list of games above are developers getting away with half efforts for the PC, and this is a few years running now, game after game.
While I would agree that had they been PC-exclusive they would have been much better on PC we have to also accept that had they been PC-exclusive then there wouldn't have been enough money to make them in the first place. However, we should demand that games released on PC are taken seriously. Max Payne 3, Borderlands 2, Dishonored, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, Alan Wake, Battlefield 3, DiRT2/3/Showdown and Batman: Arkham City all had great PC releases, with DX11 support being included in upcoming games like BioShock Infinite, Crysis 3, GRID 2, Metro: Last Light and Tomb Raider.

2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 20:49:
I think also with DRM/Online only/Steam/Origin taking so much freedom away from people to play and manage the games the way they want to (and when they want to), and now talk of developers disallowing mods. (PC gaming wouldn't be where it is today without mods, ridiculous thing to do by developers). If this continues, I've had it with PC gaming.
That's a personal decision but it doesn't reflect reality, as PC games used to ship with Analog Rights Management in the forum of: printed code sheets; code wheels; star constellations hidden behind magnifying glasses; code words hidden in the manual. Then they used to ship with draconian DRM, including: CD-checks, game crippling exe injections, etc. Services like Steam and Origin have actually IMPROVED the end user experience, as well as bringing down the price of games in real terms through sales. They are far from perfect and gamers will continue to demand more but Steam is one of the biggest reasons that PC gaming is doing as well as it is.

As for checkpoint only saves, they're a design feature - admittedly a contentious issue but one I actually support, despite being exclusively a PC gamer.

And finally, I think we can all agree that Microsoft is a pretty shitty company and its move into consoles have been to the detriment of PC.
 
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122. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 22:34 Mordecai Walfish
 
Prez wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 04:08:

Anyway, I have a question. I have a quad core AMD AM3 cpu, 4 GB of memory, and a Geforce Ti 560. I keep getting stuttering and low framerates in busy open city-type games like GTA IV and Sleeping Dogs. What is the most important thing I need to upgrade in the short term to improve this? I am in the process of saving up for a new rig but that's about 3 to 6 months away so I wanted a small boost for my current (decidedly underwhelming) setup in the short term in the GTA-like games.


A couple things to add..

1. CPU would be a great upgrade in your case, 3570's are coming down in price and have excellent performance out-of-the-box, as well as plenty of O/C headroom.

2.Windows 8. I know this sounds crazy, but reading this: http://www.hardcoreware.net/windows-7-vs-windows-8-performance/ makes a quite convincing case that (at least for now), windows 8 actually provides more stable frames (with AMD chips especially). The jitters you get in open world games are specifically related to the frame times going above a certain threshold on a regular basis, and I experience this stuttering at times too, in many games (I also have an AMD Phenom2 Quadcore @ 3.6ghz) All tests in that link are with a nvidia GPU too, so the results would echo your setup as well as they do mine. (I have a GTX480)

 
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121. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 20:49 2nd_floor
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 20:03:
2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 18:05:
One thing for sure: gaming on the PC is becoming, very quickly, second-tier. (or is it already there?!?!)
I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Although there's still a lot of room for improvement we're seeing a lot of games released on PC that previously wouldn't have been and we're seeing a lot of PC versions that offer DX10/11 features that simply aren't available on consoles. Despite the huge amount of money to be made with consoles the PC is still doing surprisingly well and publishers are realising that they can't get away with half-assed ports - that's why games like Borderlands 2 and Dishonored play so well on PC. We're not seeing as many PC exclusives but even on the ports they offer a substantially better experience than on console.

The real issue is that some developers are willing to be paid off by Microsoft and Sony, including Bungie, Epic Games and Rockstar. In those cases games like Halo and GTA would be MUCH better on PC but they choose to design them around consoles and only release half-assed ports. These studios don't give a shit about gaming and only care about money. Treating gamers with respect - as Gearbox did with Borderlands 2 - will make you much more money than selling out to Microsoft and fucking over fans on particular platforms.

True, some games have downloads that support DirectX 10/11, and some out of the box, but I think the overall picture maybe is not good:

The latest games I've played (shooters anyway) have been mediocore console to PC ports (I would say anyway, most with checkpoint-only saves and very linear, corridor shooters): Crysis 2, Dead Island, Metro 2033, Homefront, F.E.A.R. 2 & 3, DNF, and Rage. Most of these games had VERY few graphical options for PC, and by no means are they using or pushing the limits of hardware of PCs like they used to. They are junky! They feel lack-luster! I don't feel like it is worth it to spend $3500 on a PC to play these games. It's not, it's ridiculous to spend this much. 1/5 games fully uses the hardware in my computer!

John Carmack got id Tech V running on the iPhone! Cool, but for the bugs that Rage on PC had, I wonder if they simply said PC is not as important as it was 5 years ago lets say, and put more time/effort into consoles with it. And it shows, Rage was not ready for PC release I think!

Epic has even said that Unreal Engine 4 will not be made for PCs!

Bioshock Infinite's lead platform is X360 (or PS3 maybe, but console anyway). Everywhere you look with PC gaming, you hear about consoles, and the PC is second.

" publishers are realising that they can't get away with half-assed ports" I don't think this is the case at all! I think the opposite really. The list of games above are developers getting away with half efforts for the PC, and this is a few years running now, game after game.

We're getting games, but they are not as good technology wise as they used to be, which affects game play. I agree, they are not designed primarily for the PC!

I think also with DRM/Online only/Steam/Origin taking so much freedom away from people to play and manage the games the way they want to (and when they want to), and now talk of developers disallowing mods. (PC gaming wouldn't be where it is today without mods, ridiculous thing to do by developers). If this continues, I've had it with PC gaming. Too many frustrations, not worth it for the quality of the games when you can play them, especially checkpoint-only saves (did these originate on consoles I think?)!

Microsoft is such a dirty company. What they do and get away with is unreal.

I'm frustrated anyway by games these days, not as enjoyable for various reasons!!

This comment was edited on Nov 15, 2012, 20:54.
 
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120. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 20:03 theyarecomingforyou
 
2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 18:05:
One thing for sure: gaming on the PC is becoming, very quickly, second-tier. (or is it already there?!?!)
I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Although there's still a lot of room for improvement we're seeing a lot of games released on PC that previously wouldn't have been and we're seeing a lot of PC versions that offer DX10/11 features that simply aren't available on consoles. Despite the huge amount of money to be made with consoles the PC is still doing surprisingly well and publishers are realising that they can't get away with half-assed ports - that's why games like Borderlands 2 and Dishonored play so well on PC. We're not seeing as many PC exclusives but even on the ports they offer a substantially better experience than on console.

The real issue is that some developers are willing to be paid off by Microsoft and Sony, including Bungie, Epic Games and Rockstar. In those cases games like Halo and GTA would be MUCH better on PC but they choose to design them around consoles and only release half-assed ports. These studios don't give a shit about gaming and only care about money. Treating gamers with respect - as Gearbox did with Borderlands 2 - will make you much more money than selling out to Microsoft and fucking over fans on particular platforms.
 
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119. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 18:05 2nd_floor
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 17:28:
2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 16:10:
A game like this can run on the current generation of consoles? 512MB RAM, 3 core (6 threads) CPU @ 3 GHz, 256MB Video RAM (XBox 360 specs)?
It doesn't just run on them, it's designed for them. And the trailer was obviously based on the console versions, as there is massive aliasing, low polygon models and low resolution textures - PC games don't look that bad. Given that the city is much larger this time and that the X360 is still limited by the capacity of a single DVD it's unlikely the game will have any better textures, especially given that the X360 and PS3 could barely handle GTAIV as it was.

As for whether the PC version will support DX11, we still don't know if there will be a PC version. It seems likely based upon previous games but even if there is it's likely to be a bare bones port and in the unlikely event it supports DX11 - and that is very unlikely - there's little chance of it supporting the major features, like tessellation.

They should have designed the game for next-gen consoles and PC and then simply scaled the game back for X360 and PS3. As for why they don't make PC ports, it's because Microsoft and Sony pay them shit loads of money to be console exclusives. That and the publisher is very poorly run. Most other games have PC releases that take advantage of the platform, so they're ignoring the PC by choice.

The PC is becoming the way Linux has always been with gaming: we have no plans to release for it or to make proper use of it (PC with the latter example). Even though the PC has hardware 20x better than consoles. You're right, the money is in the consoles now, and gaming is now more so about the huge companies of Microsoft, Sony, EA, Ubisoft, Take-Two getting their way and not allowing the developers to do what they want to. Maybe the developers don't even want to do the PC anymore.

It's about making as much money as they can and benefiting the large companies above, as much as possible market share and financially wise, and less about the games themselves maybe. It doesn't matter if the games have the best technology or not, they will sell, and then the companies can move onto the next games to make and sell.

It is less about the games, more about the companies.

One thing for sure: gaming on the PC is becoming, very quickly, second-tier. (or is it already there?!?!)

How do Nvidia and AMD/ATI possibly keep marketing and selling top of the line gaming/graphics technology when it's not being used completely by half of the games (at least half, easily I think!!!) out there!!

I wonder what Valve's Big Picture will do...

This comment was edited on Nov 15, 2012, 18:30.
 
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118. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 17:28 theyarecomingforyou
 
2nd_floor wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 16:10:
A game like this can run on the current generation of consoles? 512MB RAM, 3 core (6 threads) CPU @ 3 GHz, 256MB Video RAM (XBox 360 specs)?
It doesn't just run on them, it's designed for them. And the trailer was obviously based on the console versions, as there is massive aliasing, low polygon models and low resolution textures - PC games don't look that bad. Given that the city is much larger this time and that the X360 is still limited by the capacity of a single DVD it's unlikely the game will have any better textures, especially given that the X360 and PS3 could barely handle GTAIV as it was.

As for whether the PC version will support DX11, we still don't know if there will be a PC version. It seems likely based upon previous games but even if there is it's likely to be a bare bones port and in the unlikely event it supports DX11 - and that is very unlikely - there's little chance of it supporting the major features, like tessellation.

They should have designed the game for next-gen consoles and PC and then simply scaled the game back for X360 and PS3. As for why they don't make PC ports, it's because Microsoft and Sony pay them shit loads of money to be console exclusives. That and the publisher is very poorly run. Most other games have PC releases that take advantage of the platform, so they're ignoring the PC by choice.
 
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117. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 16:10 2nd_floor
 
A game like this can run on the current generation of consoles? 512MB RAM, 3 core (6 threads) CPU @ 3 GHz, 256MB Video RAM (XBox 360 specs)?

This trailer is not Direct X 11 then?

id's Rage couldn't use anti-aliasing (at all I think maybe) on consoles because they didn't have the power. How can this open world, huge game run on console hardware? I thought the consoles were stuck back with 2007/2008 hardware?!?! PC hardware today is some 20x more powerful than console hardware, no?

Why don't they make PC ports of all their games? They must have to have two slightly different code bases already for the differences between PS3 and XBox 360 because the hardware and software is different, I would think that a 3rd and 4th wouldn't add that much stress or be too difficult?!?! It would be easy to port to the PC, even Mac!

Do the PS3 and XBox 360 not use similar hardware and software to that of PCs even?

Feels like a movie really.
 
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116. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 08:45 Verno
 
Quboid wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 08:27:
They don't? That is fairly useless. FIFA 12 wasn't on Steam, I wonder if they have Origin data. Do they just measure physical sales?

VGChartz in general is really dubious, won't disclose their supposed "retail sources" and have been caught making large scale adjustments after other places have posted theirs. You making a guess based on napkin math and a hunch is about as accurate as VGChartz, literally.
 
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115. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 08:39 Creston
 
Prez wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 04:08:
netnerd85 wrote on Nov 14, 2012, 23:51:
I am so confused by some of you Blue News regulars... you like this crap? I mean... wow.

I do. Uh... Sorry? Undecided

Anyway, I have a question. I have a quad core AMD AM3 cpu, 4 GB of memory, and a Geforce Ti 560. I keep getting stuttering and low framerates in busy open city-type games like GTA IV and Sleeping Dogs. What is the most important thing I need to upgrade in the short term to improve this? I am in the process of saving up for a new rig but that's about 3 to 6 months away so I wanted a small boost for my current (decidedly underwhelming) setup in the short term in the GTA-like games.


The Ti 560... I forget which card that was, that might not be the most powerful thing in the world, but I think it really should play GTA4 fine, if perhaps not at the highest settings.

I'm pretty sure it's your CPU, Prez. GTA4 especially is just notorious for demanding really powerful quad core CPUs. I had no stuttering issues on my previous Quad core (the ehh.... Q6600?), haven't actually tried it on my i5-2500K.

However, depending on your mobo, I don't know if you can upgrade your CPU without also doing a mobo upgrade. And I heartily recommend you go Intel on your upgrade. Not to spite AMD, or because I'm an Intel fan, but simply because the i5-2500K blows every AMD processor out of the water for gaming.

Creston
 
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114. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 08:27 Quboid
 
jacobvandy wrote on Nov 14, 2012, 21:16:
Sorry, but "VGChartz" doesn't have Steam data. Or any other DD data, probably. You cannot seriously be trying to draw conclusions about PC sales from that rubbish? Don't know how many times this needs to be stated, but traditional retail sales data is COMPLETELY WORTHLESS in the digital age.

They don't? That is fairly useless. FIFA 12 wasn't on Steam, I wonder if they have Origin data. Do they just measure physical sales?
 
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113. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 06:55 Prez
 
Game trailers so often are made for the lowest common denominator casual "awesome button" gamer. I don't put much stake in them anymore. I think back to the terrible trailers for the original Dragon Age, yet I found the game itself to be an RPG that rivaled such classics as Baldur's Gate.  
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112. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 06:15 netnerd85
 
Prez wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 04:08:
netnerd85 wrote on Nov 14, 2012, 23:51:
I am so confused by some of you Blue News regulars... you like this crap? I mean... wow.

I do. Uh... Sorry? Undecided

lol, don't say sorry... I'm just confused, so confused. IMO that trailer is terrible, not as bad as that Blops one but still.
 
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111. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 05:50 Prez
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 05:04:
Prez wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 04:08:
Anyway, I have a question. I have a quad core AMD AM3 cpu, 4 GB of memory, and a Geforce Ti 560. I keep getting stuttering and low framerates in busy open city-type games like GTA IV and Sleeping Dogs. What is the most important thing I need to upgrade in the short term to improve this?
My framerate often drops to 30-45fps in GTAIV, despite the fact I have a Core i7 @4.6GHz, 12GB RAM and a GTX680SLI setup. The only way you can improve performance is by lowering the resolution. As for Sleeping Dogs, it's optimised for AMD hardware but it's also very demanding graphically.

In terms of short term upgrades, if your current memory is going to be compatible with your upgrade then you're not losing anything by upgrading it now, though it won't affect performance much (it might help your minimum framerate but will do little to affect average performance). Apart from that the only upgrade you can do without replacing your motherboard and processor is your graphics card. To get a real improvement in performance you'd need to be looking at the GTX670 or the HD7950, both of which are reasonably pricey. You would get a performance improvements in a lot of games, though your processor will hold you back.

Good info, and kind of along the lines I was thinking. It's always nice to hear it from someone else though - it's reassuring.
 
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110. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 05:04 theyarecomingforyou
 
Prez wrote on Nov 15, 2012, 04:08:
Anyway, I have a question. I have a quad core AMD AM3 cpu, 4 GB of memory, and a Geforce Ti 560. I keep getting stuttering and low framerates in busy open city-type games like GTA IV and Sleeping Dogs. What is the most important thing I need to upgrade in the short term to improve this?
My framerate often drops to 30-45fps in GTAIV, despite the fact I have a Core i7 @4.6GHz, 12GB RAM and a GTX680SLI setup. The only way you can improve performance is by lowering the resolution. As for Sleeping Dogs, it's optimised for AMD hardware but it's also very demanding graphically.

In terms of short term upgrades, if your current memory is going to be compatible with your upgrade then you're not losing anything by upgrading it now, though it won't affect performance much (it might help your minimum framerate but will do little to affect average performance). Apart from that the only upgrade you can do without replacing your motherboard and processor is your graphics card. To get a real improvement in performance you'd need to be looking at the GTX670 or the HD7950, both of which are reasonably pricey. You would get a performance improvements in a lot of games, though your processor will hold you back.
 
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109. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 04:08 Prez
 
netnerd85 wrote on Nov 14, 2012, 23:51:
I am so confused by some of you Blue News regulars... you like this crap? I mean... wow.

I do. Uh... Sorry? Undecided

Anyway, I have a question. I have a quad core AMD AM3 cpu, 4 GB of memory, and a Geforce Ti 560. I keep getting stuttering and low framerates in busy open city-type games like GTA IV and Sleeping Dogs. What is the most important thing I need to upgrade in the short term to improve this? I am in the process of saving up for a new rig but that's about 3 to 6 months away so I wanted a small boost for my current (decidedly underwhelming) setup in the short term in the GTA-like games.

 
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108. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 15, 2012, 03:46 theyarecomingforyou
 
Bhruic wrote on Nov 14, 2012, 22:21:
If it makes sense to port to the PS3 - which has a much different architecture than the PC - it should make equal sense to port to the PC.
This. Pissing off PC gamers can't be a good strategy for PC sales and if they haven't got a large enough team by now then that's nobody else's fault. The delay isn't for technical reasons, it's because they're too busy being handed briefcases full of money by Microsoft and Sony.
 
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107. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 14, 2012, 23:51 netnerd85
 
I am so confused by some of you Blue News regulars... you like this crap? I mean... wow.  
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106. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 14, 2012, 23:23 xXBatmanXx
 
Sempai wrote on Nov 14, 2012, 19:33:
The models look like they belong on a playstation 2.
Congratulations Rockstar for not supporting a platform that would compliment your game, instead you put it on 7yr old hardware that looks like shit.

I'm sure after you've reaped your sales by trying to force customers to buy it on xbox, you'll then double dip by pushing it out the door onto the PC crowd a year later.

Dickbags.

Troll bait - I know, but I fired up my PS2 not long ago to play some GTA, and it is NOTHING like that.

I will buy a copy on PC and a copy on xbox. Big whoop. The time played vs cost is pennies per hour.

Have a nice day.
 
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105. Re: Grand Theft Auto V Trailer Nov 14, 2012, 22:21 Bhruic
 
Orogogus wrote on Nov 14, 2012, 22:08:
Well, it's a close 3rd with the understanding that there's a large gap between 1st and 2nd.

Even using your numbers you can see instances where it's in 2nd place. But you don't often see companies making games exclusive to a platform without financial incentive. If it makes sense to port to the PS3 - which has a much different architecture than the PC - it should make equal sense to port to the PC.
 
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