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Op Ed

Follow-up to this.

Eurogamer.net - Lost Humanity 18 Aftermath.
The first is that a lot of people want to know more about why I made the changes and issued an apology. The answer is that Lauren Wainwright threatened us with legal action and made it clear she would not back down, at which point we took legal advice and ultimately made the decision to remove the paragraphs. It was not a decision that I took lightly. One objection to this action that I've read online is that there was no libel. All I can really say is that the advice we received meant that removing the offending text and apologising to Lauren was the right course of action to take. We also considered the fact that the article wasn't really about her but about all of us, and I felt that the edited version did not change Rab's meaning.

The second main reaction seems to have come mostly from people who work in the games industry - it's all over my Twitter feed, anyway - and it's that a lot of people want to forget about the whole thing and move on. It's just video games, they say. It's not as important as all this. Well, I don't want to move on. It is important. And I don't want to move on for the same reasons I published Rab's column in the first place: I believe there is a lot of truth in what he says.

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24. Re: Op Ed Nov 2, 2012, 08:32 strong placebo
 


at least the current senior editor at EG wrote a follow up that is not weasily. It doesnt change their crappy reviews on their website though.
 
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 18:00 Flatline
 
Golwar wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 07:47:
I don't get why people always must hate someone. Last time pretty much everyone here hated Eurogamer, considering them to have betrayed Rab. This time Lauren is the target.

Sorry, but it is sickening when the reaction of unaffected third persons is so much harsher than of those affected. Rab himself wrote the first time that he wasn't mad with EG and yet people ignored it.

Here he wrote about his impressions in all details: http://botherer.org/2012/10/26/guest-post-robert-florence-on-the-last-few-days/

So do you think that he considers Lauren to be evil? No? So why do YOU?
She was naive, panicked and probably got some ill advise. She was without a doubt dumb, but that's it. Don't pretend that you never were.

I don't think she's evil by any stretch of the imagination. And if she had just done the C&D legal threat and that was the end of it, yeah, I'd have agreed she was stupid.

But she kept. feeding. the fire. to cover up her own actions. How many "coincidences" do you have to see that rely on one another before it starts being a little hard to swallow? She didn't just make one bad decision, she doubled down on the bad decisions like six or seven different times, and as a public figure (which she strove to be), she brought all the hateraid down on herself.
 
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22. Re: Op Ed Nov 1, 2012, 17:57 Flatline
 
Draugr wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 00:55:
Flatline wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 00:23:
In a perfect world yes her writing career would be in the toilet. Sadly, she ain't going nowhere because she has TITTIES!

No actually, the reason her writing career won't be in the toilet is because she isn't doing anything out of the norm for a gaming 'journalist.' In fact pointing that out is what started this whole thing in the first place. It just so happens she was selected as one of the many people who could have been used as an example. A far more disappointing reason.

So game journalists traditionally threaten legal action when they're quoted? And then instead of WRITING about the situation like a good journalist would, game journalists engage in a system of cover-ups and editing to mask evidence that might support the original statements that they objected to?

If that's the case, game journalism needs to die. Painfully. And then it's corpse needs to be pissed on, burned, the ashes scattered to the wind, and the tongues cut out of anyone who mentions it ever again. Because that's major bullshit.
 
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21. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 10:25 Parallax Abstraction
 
nin wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 09:24:
Golwar wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 07:47:
She was naive, panicked and probably got some ill advise. She was without a doubt dumb, but that's it. Don't pretend that you never were.

Her actions got someone fired. I don't recall ever doing that.


To be fair, the guy from Eurogamer quit in protest of his article being edited, he wasn't fired.

That said, I think Eurogamer should have stuck to their guns if they thought they were right and I think Lauren Wainwright's actions have basically proven all the accusations against her as correct. If she felt she was in the right, she wouldn't have tried to erase her frankly ludicrous conflicts of interest away, she would have owned the situation, explained it and let that rest on itself. She didn't even have to apologise, just explain why she thought she was free of conflict and rebut the claims rather than resort to cheap exploitation of Britain's broken libel laws. She's in the wrong and has all but admitted it and she deserves to never work in the games press again.
 
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 10:01 Bhruic
 
Golwar wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 07:47:
I don't get why people always must hate someone. Last time pretty much everyone here hated Eurogamer, considering them to have betrayed Rab. This time Lauren is the target.

It's not them we hate, if hate is even the right word, it's their actions. EG caved. Rather than standing up for Rab and the article, they gave in. They might have had good reason to do so. Certainly, it sounds like that the legal advice they were given. But said legal advice was probably "it's going to cost you a lot of money to fight this". So they compromised principle for money.

Lauren used legal threats to remove parts of an article that she didn't like. Not because there was any real legal foul going on, but simply because she didn't like the way it mader her look. Again, she may have got legal advice that she could do it, but it was probably "you'd have a very dicey time of it in court, but they'll likely back down because it's not worth the cost for them". But it was her actions that caused the problem, it wasn't whoever gave her the advice.

I'm not sure that the "everyone screws up so we should overlook these screw ups" really works here.
 
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19. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 09:42 Verno
 
nin wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 09:24:
Golwar wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 07:47:
She was naive, panicked and probably got some ill advise. She was without a doubt dumb, but that's it. Don't pretend that you never were.

Her actions got someone fired. I don't recall ever doing that.


He was on contract and decided to quit, he wasn't fired. Doesn't really change all of the hilariously wrong shit she did in this situation though.
 
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18. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 09:34 Beamer
 
The entire discussion of her actions being hypocritical, as she used a tool that's contrary to her chosen career, is a good argument.

And that she has turned a molehill into a mountain. It went from a "not a huge deal, everyone is doing it" issue that she could have gracefully gotten out of without damaging her career to one in which she's basically ended her career.

She majored in journalism and "game studies." Not many other places for her to go. I'd guess she ends up doing PR at a smaller studio, but being a game journalist seems no longer on the table.
 
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17. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 09:24 nin
 
Golwar wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 07:47:
She was naive, panicked and probably got some ill advise. She was without a doubt dumb, but that's it. Don't pretend that you never were.

Her actions got someone fired. I don't recall ever doing that.

 
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16. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 09:09 Verno
 
Golwar wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 07:47:
So do you think that he considers Lauren to be evil? No? So why do YOU?
She was naive, panicked and probably got some ill advise. She was without a doubt dumb, but that's it. Don't pretend that you never were.

Who said anything about evil? She can just be a moron without being evil. She is the one who made this into a much bigger deal than it should have been. Are you seriously whiteknighting some idiot who threatened to bring an unfounded libel suit? Naive and panicked? She deliberately misled, deceived and tried to cover up her behavior. You can't play the innocence card when the person in question does the wrong thing on purpose at every possible turn.

Has she apologized at all? Has she restored the content she tried to hide? Has she admitted that her libel suit was an effort to censor another publication, something she as a reporter (so she claims) should be ashamed of? No? Ok then people will go on correctly labeling her with fault.

I find it amusing you seem to think everyone has forgiven Eurogamers involvement and moved onto her, I blame them equally for the matter but their fault is a different kind. It has nothing to do with personal hate or dislike, this is a pretty clear cut case where there aren't any grey lines.
 
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15. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 09:03 Bhruic
 
Rigs wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 07:13:
Why can beloved sports stars get millions for promoting and marketing but gamers can't?

Gamers can. Game reviewers can, but shouldn't. They are supposed to be impartial. When they demonstrate a clear bias, it impacts their ability (or their perceived ability) to review a game fairly. Yes, you can say "just don't have them review that game", but that makes the assumption (a poor one at that) that their editors are on top of that sort of bias, which is rarely the case.
 
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14. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 07:47 Golwar
 
I don't get why people always must hate someone. Last time pretty much everyone here hated Eurogamer, considering them to have betrayed Rab. This time Lauren is the target.

Sorry, but it is sickening when the reaction of unaffected third persons is so much harsher than of those affected. Rab himself wrote the first time that he wasn't mad with EG and yet people ignored it.

Here he wrote about his impressions in all details: http://botherer.org/2012/10/26/guest-post-robert-florence-on-the-last-few-days/

So do you think that he considers Lauren to be evil? No? So why do YOU?
She was naive, panicked and probably got some ill advise. She was without a doubt dumb, but that's it. Don't pretend that you never were.
 
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13. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 07:32 Dades
 
Rigs wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 07:13:
I can see the uproar over the whole journalistic integrity thing involving reviews, but I don't understand the disdain of 'game journalists' promoting games they like. Like the picture he talks about with the guy sitting next to a table of Doritos, Mtn Dew and Halo4. So what? Why can beloved sports stars get millions for promoting and marketing but gamers can't? Yes, I understand the conflict of interest it would cause during a review. So just don't have that guy review the game. Simple. If it's clear someone is a fanboy of a certain game, find someone else to review it. I'm a non-apologetic HALO fanatic but could I be objective in a review of Halo4? Probably not. Obviously if MS gave me $10,000, a new 360 with HALO4, a lifetime supply of Doritos and Mtn Dew (I could only wish! ), I wouldn't expect to be taken seriously in a review of said game. But what's wrong with liking the game your reviewing? Or did I miss the point?


=-Rigs-=

Read up on the topic. All of the points where you said "so what?" or "I dont get it" are where this idiot had a major conflict of interest and chose to lie or obscure it instead of disclosing then tried to hide it from the internet with a patently bullshit libel suit.

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12. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 1, 2012, 07:13 Rigs
 
I can see the uproar over the whole journalistic integrity thing involving reviews, but I don't understand the disdain of 'game journalists' promoting games they like. Like the picture he talks about with the guy sitting next to a table of Doritos, Mtn Dew and Halo4. So what? Why can beloved sports stars get millions for promoting and marketing but gamers can't? Yes, I understand the conflict of interest it would cause during a review. So just don't have that guy review the game. Simple. If it's clear someone is a fanboy of a certain game, find someone else to review it. I'm a non-apologetic HALO fanatic but could I be objective in a review of Halo4? Probably not. Obviously if MS gave me $10,000, a new 360 with HALO4, a lifetime supply of Doritos and Mtn Dew (I could only wish! ), I wouldn't expect to be taken seriously in a review of said game. But what's wrong with liking the game your reviewing? Or did I miss the point?


=-Rigs-=
 
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'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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11. Re: Op Ed Nov 1, 2012, 00:55 Draugr
 
Flatline wrote on Nov 1, 2012, 00:23:
In a perfect world yes her writing career would be in the toilet. Sadly, she ain't going nowhere because she has TITTIES!

No actually, the reason her writing career won't be in the toilet is because she isn't doing anything out of the norm for a gaming 'journalist.' In fact pointing that out is what started this whole thing in the first place. It just so happens she was selected as one of the many people who could have been used as an example. A far more disappointing reason.

This comment was edited on Nov 1, 2012, 01:01.
 
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10. Re: Op Ed Nov 1, 2012, 00:23 Flatline
 
Prez wrote on Oct 31, 2012, 20:09:
Lauren is a pathetic cretin who should never make a dime off the industry again. Eurogamer shouldn't have caved; I have read repeatedly that her claims would have not held up in UK court. As an aside, her employer only denied that they made any legal threats in their statement; they never denied she did.

Also, bravo to Atkinson for so eloquently stating why the UK law is so mind-numbingly stupid and evil.

In a perfect world yes her writing career would be in the toilet. Sadly, she ain't going nowhere because she has TITTIES!

Seriously, you go look at her blog, and pretty sick how blatant the pandering is... her about me read something like "I love GAMES and boys (teehee!) and glitter and I write occasionally!"

And she'll catch writing contracts because she's the illusive "female gamer" and is willing to ever so gently sexualize herself to claim she can get the nerds drooling after her.
 
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9. Re: Op Ed Oct 31, 2012, 23:44 PropheT
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Oct 31, 2012, 23:23:
Actually, I assume it was related to the comment made about her probably being paid for by Square Enix because she was promoting Tomb Raider. There was nothing wrong with the article though - it never accused her of anything.

I'm pretty sure that's what it was, since everything else was pretty easily attributed to her as a direct quote.

I think everyone was so pissed about it because it was so damn spot on accurate that nobody could ignore it. People here have been saying the exact same thing for years, if less concisely, but it's a huge problem when those review scores are directly affecting everything from sales to the games that even manage to get made anymore.

I'm sure everyone will forget about it and move on, I just hope they don't forgive it along the way. It needs to change.
 
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8. Re: Op Ed Oct 31, 2012, 23:23 theyarecomingforyou
 
Quboid wrote on Oct 31, 2012, 23:05:
This is the first I've heard of this too. What was actually said about her?
Actually, I assume it was related to the comment made about her probably being paid for by Square Enix because she was promoting Tomb Raider. There was nothing wrong with the article though - it never accused her of anything.

And if she's connected to The Sun then she's not even trying to be a serious journalist. She's only in it for the money and the power.
 
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7. Re: Op Ed Oct 31, 2012, 23:05 Quboid
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Oct 31, 2012, 22:53:
This is the first I'd heard of this entire saga and it's incredibly depressing, though not at all surprising. This woman sounds like a truly repugnant individual and the gaming industry would be much better off without the likes of her.

On the plus side, I finally got to read the Eurogamer article and I have to say I found it a thoroughly good read. I just wish we was able to keep writing for them.

PS - That picture of Geoff Keighley is sickening. What a fucking sell out.

This is the first I've heard of this too. What was actually said about her?

It makes me wonder how complicate we are in this.

Edit: I've found what was said about her and it's quoting her tweets. How in the hell is that libellous? Lauren Wainwright also works for The Sun, owned by News International. They really are perfect for each other and she richly deserves the Streisand effect that she may get.

This comment was edited on Oct 31, 2012, 23:21.
 
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6. Re: Op Ed Oct 31, 2012, 22:53 theyarecomingforyou
 
This is the first I'd heard of this entire saga and it's incredibly depressing, though not at all surprising. This woman sounds like a truly repugnant individual and the gaming industry would be much better off without the likes of her.

On the plus side, I finally got to read the Eurogamer article and I have to say I found it a thoroughly good read. I just wish we was able to keep writing for them.

PS - That picture of Geoff Keighley is sickening. What a fucking sell out.
 
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5. Re: Op Ed Oct 31, 2012, 21:10 Dades
 
Prez wrote on Oct 31, 2012, 20:09:
Lauren is a pathetic cretin who should never make a dime off the industry again. Eurogamer shouldn't have caved; I have read repeatedly that her claims would have not held up in UK court. As an aside, her employer only denied that they made any legal threats in their statement; they never denied she did.

Also, bravo to Atkinson for so eloquently stating why the UK law is so mind-numbingly stupid and evil.

She's a craven marketing flunkie who feels entitled to swag and glibly plumbs the depths of the communities using her internet girl gamer status. She is everything wrong with marketing and gaming press.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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