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Op Ed

DSOGaming - Eurogamer amends Robert Florence’s article about Geoff Keighley after threat of legal action. Thanks Joao.

Eurogamer.net - Lost Humanity 18- A Table of Doritos.
Standards are important. They are hard to live up to, sure, but that's the point of them. The trouble with games journalism is that there are no standards. We expect to see Geoff Keighley sitting beside a table of s***. We expect to see the flurry of excitement when the GMAs get announced, instead of a chuckle and a roll of the eyes. We expect to see our games journos failing to get what journalistic integrity means. The brilliant writers, like John Walker for example, don't get the credit they deserve simply because they don't play the game. Indeed, John Walker gets told to get off his pedestal because he has high standards and is pointing out a worrying problem.

Forbes - Video Game Journalist Robert Florence Leaves Eurogamer After Libel Complaints.
Where does journalism end and unwitting advertising begin? I actually ask myself this question a lot, because a lot of the time I write very positive and hopeful things about gaming – because I love video games, and deep down I obviously want as many of them to succeed as possible.

These are hard questions and they don’t have simple answers, but they’re important questions to ask.

John Walker's Electronic House - An Utter Disgrace.
And what the above proves is not only just how moronic UK libel laws are, where someone can’t directly quote a person and then point out possible misinterpretations that could arise from it, but also how deftly our broken system can be used to silence not only discussion, but also criticism.

When a journalist feels they have been misrepresented, even if this so-called misrepresentation has arisen from their having been directly quoted, the response should not be to demand it be removed. The response is to offer to write a response column, or to publish a response in any of the public outlets to which they have access. To do anything else is to be an enemy of journalism, deliberately stifling discussion, and going out of one’s way to ensure further discussion is feared.

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39 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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39. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 18:59 Flatline
 
I'm always amused that someone who makes their living talking about things in nuance decides that the solution to a misunderstanding is to hide what's going on and pretend it never happened... instead of talking about it in nuance.  
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38. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 16:17 ASeven
 
Another great article worth a read.  
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37. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 14:47 ASeven
 
Creston wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 13:53:
ASeven wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 12:12:
This post pretty much brilliantly resumes the events of the past days, revealing more stuff that has happened some of us might not be aware of yet.

They're doing an excellent job summarizing everything. This part is especially interesting:

in fact, bringing a libel case in the UK is prohibitively expensive and open to almost nobody as a result. And even if Intent had had a massive brainfail and tried it with this one, they'd have been laughed out of court in five minutes flat. Eurogamer's near-instant cave-in to the complaint is extremely baffling, as Wainwright didn't have a leg to stand on.

So Eurogamer caved for no reason, and it was already dubious for them to cave to begin with, as this isn't some big publisher threatening them. I could kind of understand them backing down if it was EA or Ubisoft going "hey, take that shit down or we're done with you." After all, they exist off their relations with big publishers. But that's not the case, it's just another media organization.

Way to stick up for your columnist there, Eurogamer.

My take on it? Eurogamer wanted to maintain the status quo at all costs, even if publishers didn't intervene. The status quo is, after all, so sweet, free swag and games and all that shit and a reporter reporting on the truth is too much of an inconvenience against the status quo.
 
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36. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 13:53 Creston
 
ASeven wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 12:12:
This post pretty much brilliantly resumes the events of the past days, revealing more stuff that has happened some of us might not be aware of yet.

They're doing an excellent job summarizing everything. This part is especially interesting:

in fact, bringing a libel case in the UK is prohibitively expensive and open to almost nobody as a result. And even if Intent had had a massive brainfail and tried it with this one, they'd have been laughed out of court in five minutes flat. Eurogamer's near-instant cave-in to the complaint is extremely baffling, as Wainwright didn't have a leg to stand on.

So Eurogamer caved for no reason, and it was already dubious for them to cave to begin with, as this isn't some big publisher threatening them. I could kind of understand them backing down if it was EA or Ubisoft going "hey, take that shit down or we're done with you." After all, they exist off their relations with big publishers. But that's not the case, it's just another media organization.

Way to stick up for your columnist there, Eurogamer.

Creston

This comment was edited on Oct 26, 2012, 13:59.
 
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35. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 13:52 nin
 
ASeven wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 12:12:
This post pretty much brilliantly resumes the events of the past days, revealing more stuff that has happened some of us might not be aware of yet.

Interesting read, thanks!

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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34. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 13:44 Creston
 
Golwar wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 09:07:
That is all the further reaction that I will invest in your hysteria.

Good, because you were getting fucking boring anyway.

On the dipshit list you go.

Creston
 
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33. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 12:34 ASeven
 
Verno wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 12:28:
Apparently being criticized for your public actions to advertise on behalf of a company without disclosing it is considered "libel". Lauren Wainright is an idiot. There, she can sue me, see you in court.

Allow me to up the ante. She's an idiot and an outright shill. There, now we're both will be seeing that idiot in court.
 
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32. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 12:28 Verno
 
Apparently being criticized for your public actions to advertise on behalf of a company without disclosing it is considered "libel". Lauren Wainright is an idiot. There, she can sue me, see you in court.  
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Playing: Dark Souls 2
Watching: Legends, Intruders, Apocalypse Now
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31. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 12:12 ASeven
 
This post pretty much brilliantly resumes the events of the past days, revealing more stuff that has happened some of us might not be aware of yet.  
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30. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 11:42 Beamer
 
Yakubs wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 11:23:
Game reviewers will never have a positive image. It's simply impossible until intelligent, educated people become game reviewers, which will never happen until games are widely considered to be artistic equivalents to things like books, music, and movies. Right now, only people with low standards become game reviewers because they're the only ones willing to play the latest AAA shlock 8 hours a day for $30k a year.

Most game reviewers are both intelligent and, specifically, educated.

The problem isn't the people, it's the system. Game review companies are supported exclusively by game production companies. And there's really no way to change that.

Solution: be as critical about reading reviews as you are about playing games. Don't look at numbers, find a substantial review and read what the person liked and disliked. If you know what you like and dislike you'll be able to make a perfectly educated purchase.
 
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29. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 11:23 Yakubs
 
Game reviewers will never have a positive image. It's simply impossible until intelligent, educated people become game reviewers, which will never happen until games are widely considered to be artistic equivalents to things like books, music, and movies. Right now, only people with low standards become game reviewers because they're the only ones willing to play the latest AAA shlock 8 hours a day for $30k a year.  
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28. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 10:25 avianflu
 
And Lauren W. didnt get the free PS3, for all of her career ruining efforts.

Apparently another editor at Eurogamer at that event did get one, so he must be very proud.
 
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27. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 10:02 ASeven
 
That Lauren is getting her ass handed in twitter, everyone calling her for her own stupidity and she fucking deserves it. What's even more pathetic is that she is desperately trying to defend herself and what she did has no defense in the first place.  
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26. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 09:57 InBlack
 
PHJF wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 09:42:

I think the real myth is that games "journalism" ever existed in the first place.

Like I mentioned, Computer Gaming World was a great read. They fell victim to their own overhyping sometimes (read: Black & White, Doom 3) but the majority of the time the reviews and editorials were insightful, well written, and fun to read. Jeff Green in particular had a fantastic column entitled Greenspeak wherein he communicated his exploits as an aging gamer.

But being as this was a monthly rag, there was simply no way they could survive. People need to know everything and they need to know it NNOOOWWWW, and a month in "news" time may as well be ten years.

PC Gamer was THE magazine of choice in the 90's back when people actually READ print gaming magazines. They had pretty high reviewing standards and wouldnt bow to pressure.

I remember reading the Starcraft review. They gave it 76% I believe. By todays standards that would be impossible.

Its all about the publishers PR and AD money/revenue. The whole gaming 'journalism' industry if you will is being held to ransom by the big name publishers. Low scores, reviews are a big nono!

Long live corporate extortion. Play ball our way or dont play at all.
 
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25. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 09:42 PHJF
 

I think the real myth is that games "journalism" ever existed in the first place.

Like I mentioned, Computer Gaming World was a great read. They fell victim to their own overhyping sometimes (read: Black & White, Doom 3) but the majority of the time the reviews and editorials were insightful, well written, and fun to read. Jeff Green in particular had a fantastic column entitled Greenspeak wherein he communicated his exploits as an aging gamer.

But being as this was a monthly rag, there was simply no way they could survive. People need to know everything and they need to know it NNOOOWWWW, and a month in "news" time may as well be ten years.
 
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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24. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 09:32 Bhruic
 
Golwar wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 09:07:
"Also, don't blame Eurogamer for this. The threat of legal action brings unbelievable pressure. I am clear on who the bad guys are in this."

Please explain how "don't blame" is the same as "supports". There are plenty of things people do that I don't blame them for, but I certainly don't support them doing it. I suspect in this case Robert would have prefered that they stand up for the article rather than caving in, but he doesn't blame them for it considering the difficulties they would have faced.
 
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23. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 09:17 Verno
 
I think the real myth is that games "journalism" ever existed in the first place. There was never any standards, no stand out journalists who truly represented the ideal and integrity of the industry. It simply does not and has never existed. Gaming journalism is simply yet another form of advertising, the only difference is that they've fooled themselves into thinking they are not marketing folk who might happen to have a degree in writing or journalism.  
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Playing: Dark Souls 2
Watching: Legends, Intruders, Apocalypse Now
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22. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 09:07 Golwar
 
Yeah, I'm the one making up stuff here Creston. That is what Robert twittered:

"I want to thank @tombramwell and @eurogamer for having me on board. I was saddened to hear what they've been through this past 24 hours."

"I'm as proud of the Eurogamer columns as I am of anything I've done in gaming. Again, thanks to @tombramwell for being one of the good guys."

"Also, don't blame Eurogamer for this. The threat of legal action brings unbelievable pressure. I am clear on who the bad guys are in this."

And you turn it into them being a "bunch of spineless fucks" and that Robert rage quit them. Because YOU obviously know everything better than the persons involved.
Sooo buddy: *yawn*
That is all the further reaction that I will invest in your hysteria.
 
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21. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 08:46 Creston
 
Golwar wrote on Oct 26, 2012, 08:41:
Lol yeah, bullshit.

Eurogamer decided to support Robert Florence in his critical view on their own business, that deserves recognition. When they decide that they don't want to fight odd UK laws as well, that is completly unrelated and their free decision.

Errr, what? I've never said it wasn't their free decision, just that they are a bunch of spineless fucks. If you support Robert Florence and his column, then don't give in the very first time it upsets someone, even in the face of draconian British libel laws. (and NOTHING he said would have been libel in any way, shape or form, as it was a direct quote.)

Robert Florence himself supports them for editing it, so end of story.

Yeah, he supports it so he much HE QUIT FUCKING WORKING FOR THEM.

But hey, I guess you and avianflu risk your business connections as well as you dare attacking national laws in public pretty much each day of your life. So no surprise when you are disappointed that others aren't as heroic as you.

Gigglesnort. Nice little straw man you're building there. Kick it hard! Make that little straw man bleed!

Creston
 
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20. Re: Op Ed Oct 26, 2012, 08:46 Cutter
 
TheLeech wrote on Oct 25, 2012, 21:19:
You've never heard of most journalists, so you shouldn't paint with such a broad stroke. As a former "real" journalist and a current "fake" journalist, I can tell you that your average reporter at a newspaper is just trying to cover their beat to the best of their ability. Where you will find influence peddling is higher up the chain, with "name" journalists or columnists, and even then, you're looking mostly at the national media.

If it helps, think of games journalists as B2B journalists. It's a much more symbiotic relationship than actual newspaper journalism.

Most news qualifies as the rag trade. Hell most news these days is opinion. I don't even know why they go to J school. And I'm not against opinion so long as its incisive. Say what you want about guys like Hunter but the man was a fucking good writer and knew what he was talking about. The type of people we're speaking of in this respect are pretty fucking far from real journalist.
 
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