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Morning Tech Bits

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27. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 24, 2012, 23:28 VoodooV
 
Bodolza wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:49:
Beamer wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 10:41:
People despise change and hate it without giving it time to grow on them.

While true, I don't think it's relevant in this case. Just look at Windows 7. It was a major UI change from XP, but was largely embraced as a step up from XP almost immediately. Most people liked the interface redesign, like Aero and the new taskbar. People like change when it's seen as an improvement.

I think you're missing one key aspect though. XP was really getting long in the tooth when Win7 came out, that and the failure of Vista meant most people figured that 7 really was an improvement this time around.

Win7 really isn't that old compared to that, so people are hesitant to upgrade so soon, that and the meme of "every other Windows release sucks" has set in.

I'm sure Win8 does have some decent improvements, but the ModernUI isn't winning any friends and it's following a known good OS that is still relatively new.
 
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26. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 24, 2012, 07:56 Beamer
 
Dades wrote on Oct 24, 2012, 07:22:
Shill, moving on.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!

I don't get this at all.
I don't get how Microsoft doing something every single person says they need to do in order to compete is shilling.

Hell, go read a Surface review - they're all calling it out for not having a strong enough store. Which is why Microsoft is bolting the store on to Windows 8 - so that developers have millions of potential customers instead of just whoever buys a Surface RT.

But, outside of Microsoft software, Microsoft will never force its main Windows 8 customers to use the store. Again, this is an impossibility because it would end any use of legacy software by enterprise customers, the people that are using POS systems decades old without any capital to upgrade.

It's not that I'm shilling, it's that some of you refuse to understand why decisions are made and just think everyone wants to screw you. I'm pretty certain none of you have ever been in meetings and seen that it's actually very rare for companies to want to screw you (Blizzard Auction House aside), they're typically trying to give people what they think people want. They're often misguided, but it's rarely "how can we really fuck people over?" The companies that do that end up like Zynga looks right now.
 
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25. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 24, 2012, 07:22 Dades
 
Shill, moving on.

- DADES - This is a signature of my name, enjoy!
 
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24. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 23, 2012, 18:25 Beamer
 
Bhruic wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 18:19:
Beamer wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 13:49:
One of the things people most cite that they like best about iOS devices is the store.
The world is full of idiots that can't find software any other way. Millions. Literally millions. This is part of the attraction to iOS.

You're making the unsupported leap from "people like having a one-stop shopping system" to "people want Microsoft to run a store". No one wants Microsoft to run a store. Some people want to have a single point they can go to get all their software. Microsoft is trying to take advantage of that fact.

Anyone who knows anything about Microsoft, however, quickly realized that letting Microsoft be the "single point" is a horrible idea.

People want a store on their mobile device.
Microsoft cannot be competitive without a store on their mobile device.

This isn't "some people," this is the overwhelming bulk of iOS users. iOS users are the overwhelming bulk of tablet users.

Do people ever say "I want Microsoft to have a store?" No. Do they say "I won't buy a tablet without a deep, rich, one-stop store?" Yes. So where is the disconnect here for you? How do you think Microsoft gives people what they want without giving them a store?

You guys are just blaming Microsoft for actually giving its consumers what they want. At the same time Microsoft is giving you what you want by not locking you into the store. It's actually making everyone happy.

Still you complain.
 
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23. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 23, 2012, 18:19 Bhruic
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 13:49:
One of the things people most cite that they like best about iOS devices is the store.
The world is full of idiots that can't find software any other way. Millions. Literally millions. This is part of the attraction to iOS.

You're making the unsupported leap from "people like having a one-stop shopping system" to "people want Microsoft to run a store". No one wants Microsoft to run a store. Some people want to have a single point they can go to get all their software. Microsoft is trying to take advantage of that fact.

Anyone who knows anything about Microsoft, however, quickly realized that letting Microsoft be the "single point" is a horrible idea.
 
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22. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 23, 2012, 14:23 Verno
 
Creston wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 13:44:
Hmmm, no. The majority of consumers won't know any better, and will USE the Microsoft Store, because... well... it's the Store. Isn't that where you go to buy stuff? The average user isn't going to understand how to side-load anything. And MS damn well knows it.

You can't tell me that there are literally millions of people who actually WANT a Microsoft store.

No one wants a Microsoft Store and they know it, that is why they are ramming it down everyones throats by making it the boot up shell and removed the ability to toggle it off without third party software. They fucked up mobile big time (actually several times) and this is them trying to sneak in the back door.

I could totally get behind Windows 8 if they had some genuinely new ideas and tried to innovate in the slightest. Change can be good if there is some benefit and upside to it but I just don't see it here. "We're like Apple now!" doesn't get me excited.
 
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21. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 23, 2012, 13:49 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 13:44:
Beamer wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 09:28:
1) The Microsoft Store isn't being "forced" on anyone. As we keep saying, there is plenty of opportunity to side-load. But a very sizeable portion of the userbase, possibly the majority of consumers, wants the Microsoft Store

Hmmm, no. The majority of consumers won't know any better, and will USE the Microsoft Store, because... well... it's the Store. Isn't that where you go to buy stuff? The average user isn't going to understand how to side-load anything. And MS damn well knows it.

You can't tell me that there are literally millions of people who actually WANT a Microsoft store.

Creston

One of the things people most cite that they like best about iOS devices is the store.
The world is full of idiots that can't find software any other way. Millions. Literally millions. This is part of the attraction to iOS. It stands to reason that they would prefer a Microsoft tablet solution with the store than without it.
And for the rest of us, it's business as usual as we ignore the store and use Steam, GOG, GMG, etc.

I mean, hell, how often is iOS cited as better than any other mobile OS due to its ecosystem and how many apps are in its store? How often has the success/failure of WP7 and BB been tracked via the lack of apps?

Stop thinking about this as a way for them to control the desktop. It's more of a way to transition from the desktop to mobile, and it's a built-in userbase of millions to attract devs to create apps that will increase the number of apps to be more comparable to that of iOS.
The store isn't about the desktop. It's about the tablet and the phone.
 
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20. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 23, 2012, 13:44 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 09:28:
1) The Microsoft Store isn't being "forced" on anyone. As we keep saying, there is plenty of opportunity to side-load. But a very sizeable portion of the userbase, possibly the majority of consumers, wants the Microsoft Store

Hmmm, no. The majority of consumers won't know any better, and will USE the Microsoft Store, because... well... it's the Store. Isn't that where you go to buy stuff? The average user isn't going to understand how to side-load anything. And MS damn well knows it.

You can't tell me that there are literally millions of people who actually WANT a Microsoft store.

Creston
 
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19. Re: Windows 8 is the New XP Oct 23, 2012, 09:32 Verno
 
Prez wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 19:11:
I don't care if it is a financial success; what I care about is if it is going to be the functional disaster it is looking to be. Windows XP, more than just a financial success, was a great OS. I didn't dislike it at all from what I saw in previews prior to release, I just wasn't convinced it was going to be a mandatory upgrade. Contrast that with Windows 8 which just looks terrible and has me praying it won't be a mandatory upgrade. The situations are not the same, despite the author's attempt to appear prescient and clever.

I wasn't a fan of the Luna interface (pre-release UI) but it was truly optional, not "oh well you can install a third party app at home to make it kinda optional". The article was shitty though, I agree. This is just Microsoft forcing the store on people they hope are too stupid to realize it.
 
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18. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 23, 2012, 09:28 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Oct 23, 2012, 09:14:
That's actually what most of us have been saying for awhile now - this is a pointless "upgrade" to force the Microsoft Store on the average consumer, a pitiful and desperate attempt to give Microsoft some reach after their numerous mobile debacles.

That's not really true:
1) The Microsoft Store isn't being "forced" on anyone. As we keep saying, there is plenty of opportunity to side-load. But a very sizeable portion of the userbase, possibly the majority of consumers, wants the Microsoft Store
2) This isn't even about the store. It's about having a unified platform where you can use apps on your phone, your desktop and your tablet. That's the big plan here. The store is a component of that, but it isn't the primary focus
 
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17. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 23, 2012, 09:14 Verno
 
That's actually what most of us have been saying for awhile now - this is a pointless "upgrade" to force the Microsoft Store on the average consumer, a pitiful and desperate attempt to give Microsoft some reach after their numerous mobile debacles.  
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16. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 22, 2012, 23:32 Silicon Avatar
 
Win 8 runs and works pretty much just like Win 7. The metro screen everyone flips out about is basically optional. I've been running Win 8 for over a month now with classic shell installed.

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

It's fine. The UI is just not the big deal everyone says it is. With that said, there is not that much reason to really upgrade either. I'd call it a boring update to be honest. If people weren't screaming about the UI then there'd hardly be any buzz at all.
 
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15. Windows 8 is the New XP Oct 22, 2012, 19:11 Prez
 
I don't care if it is a financial success; what I care about is if it is going to be the functional disaster it is looking to be. Windows XP, more than just a financial success, was a great OS. I didn't dislike it at all from what I saw in previews prior to release, I just wasn't convinced it was going to be a mandatory upgrade. Contrast that with Windows 8 which just looks terrible and has me praying it won't be a mandatory upgrade. The situations are not the same, despite the author's attempt to appear prescient and clever.  
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14. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 22, 2012, 15:19 Beamer
 
Mordecai Walfish wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 15:07:
Beamer wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:13:
Verno wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:06:
Be interesting to see how HDTV sales fare this year. Most people I know are all set on TVs for the foreseeable future and the student buying bonanza is long over. In general I'm at gadget overload, first world problems.

"55-in. No Name 120Hz 1080p LCD $399"

That would be a steal, and I'd push my parents to it since they went nuts after finally seeing my 58", but you know that $399 55" is utter garbage. Image quality would be so bad, and poor image quality is so noticeable at that size.
But my parents wouldn't notice.

Those 120hz interpolated sets look like crap to me no matter what the manufacturer/price.

Waiting for UltraHD 3840x2160 to get a new set, and by then hopefully we will have true 120hz available as well. The software hacks for current 120hz sets just make things look so fake, to me. Sure you need it for 3d.. but 3d really hasnt taken off like was expected either.

24p looks fantastic on a high end plasma. Screw all the motion garbage on LCDs.
 
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13. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 22, 2012, 15:07 Mordecai Walfish
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:13:
Verno wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 11:06:
Be interesting to see how HDTV sales fare this year. Most people I know are all set on TVs for the foreseeable future and the student buying bonanza is long over. In general I'm at gadget overload, first world problems.

"55-in. No Name 120Hz 1080p LCD $399"

That would be a steal, and I'd push my parents to it since they went nuts after finally seeing my 58", but you know that $399 55" is utter garbage. Image quality would be so bad, and poor image quality is so noticeable at that size.
But my parents wouldn't notice.

Those 120hz interpolated sets look like crap to me no matter what the manufacturer/price.

Waiting for UltraHD 3840x2160 to get a new set, and by then hopefully we will have true 120hz available as well. The software hacks for current 120hz sets just make things look so fake, to me. Sure you need it for 3d.. but 3d really hasnt taken off like was expected either.
 
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12. Re: More Big Picture Details Oct 22, 2012, 13:45 HorrorScope
 
Bodolza wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 12:49:
Just look at Windows 7. It was a major UI change from XP, but was largely embraced as a step up from XP almost immediately.

I didn't see the major change. But the taskbar and how it operates is cleaner, the start menu is like Vista, which is cleaner then XP as well. To me it was very minor but positive changes.
 
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11. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 22, 2012, 12:52 DangerDog
 
I don't recall anyone not wanting to switch to XP from Windows 98SE/ME, the only thing that bummed me out was the lack of driver support for my 3dfx Voodoo 3 - 3dfx bit the farm and was bought up by Nvidia right around the release of XP, ending driver support.

Ditched the Voodoo card and switched to a Nvidia card.

Windows 8 is the new Windows Vista, nice try at writing a bullshit spin article.
 
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10. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 22, 2012, 12:51 Creston
 
Most of what the guy says is true, but he's being pretty disingenuous about it, just so he can pat himself on the shoulder for being so smart.

People hated the new Windows XP interface, but it wasn't that much different from the old one that was used in the 95/98/ME series, or even the NT/2000 one.

Saying that it's the same as the difference between win7 to win8 is bullshit. There's nothing recognizable about Win7 vs Metro.

Creston
 
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9. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 22, 2012, 12:49 Bodolza
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 22, 2012, 10:41:
People despise change and hate it without giving it time to grow on them.

While true, I don't think it's relevant in this case. Just look at Windows 7. It was a major UI change from XP, but was largely embraced as a step up from XP almost immediately. Most people liked the interface redesign, like Aero and the new taskbar. People like change when it's seen as an improvement.
 
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8. Re: Morning Tech Bits Oct 22, 2012, 12:28 Verno
 
XP to Windows 8 isn't really a fair comparison anyway. The new visual styling isn't the sole issue, it's a usability and documentation issue combined with the fact that they haven't created a compelling reason to bother.

 
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