Our hope with Eternity is that it's just the first in a series of installments, and then obviously we want to do the full expansion packs, and then extra content, just because we know we really enjoyed doing that for Fallout: New Vegas. We'd want to continue adding new content to the world. The first game is only one moderately sized nation in a much, much, much bigger world where a lot of other things are going on. There's plenty more room for games in that universe and that's what we'd like to do.
It's kind of nice because not all of that has to be done in the games; we can go out and look for graphic novel tie-ins and novel tie-ins and stuff. It is kind of cool to be able to pursue that on our own without having to go through a publisher, or accept the fact that whatever franchise we're with already has the avenues all covered. It's such a nice feeling.
John wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 20:08:
There are too many pessimistic folks around here..
Bhruic wrote on Oct 20, 2012, 22:26:Jerykk wrote on Oct 20, 2012, 21:32:
I'm apparently one of the few people who enjoyed AP.
No, you might have been one of the few people who didn't run into serious bugs in the game. The game premise and consequence system may have all been great, but the control system was horrible. I was never able to completely eliminate the problems it had, although I was able to limit them to some degree. But it was an extremely common problem that they never fixed.
That was the crux of my problem with Obsidian. They make some stellar games that often end up with serious flaws that never get fixed properly. I don't mind so much if a game has some bugs as long as they are committed to fixing them, but unfortunately, they weren't.
I'm not sure how the situation will be here, since they should get the majority of profits, and since the game is paid for ahead of time, that should mean they have enough money to commit to fixing the inevitable bugs, but they don't really have a good track record. Hopefully that's because of publisher funding (or lack thereof).
It's usually far worse than that for content creators in BOTH industries. Actually if they got $7 per game, they probably are doing OUTSTANDING. Out of a $60 retail console game, something like $15 (perhaps as high as $20) is profit to a publisher. So if they are getting half of what publisher is, thats a good deal.
Asmo wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 18:52:Well my pledge tier includes beta access to the game so I'll test it out and let Obsidian know of any bugs I may find. There are too many pessimistic folks around here..
My major concern is that PE will end up like TOEE and other titles that the collective staff of Obsidian have had a hand in. Dumped on the market with deep bugs and very little support.
Denthor wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 04:49:It's usually far worse than that for content creators in BOTH industries. Actually if they got $7 per game, they probably are doing OUTSTANDING. Out of a $60 retail console game, something like $15 (perhaps as high as $20) is profit to a publisher. So if they are getting half of what publisher is, thats a good deal.Sho wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 03:34:
Everybody here seems to be forgetting that if you do a game for a publisher, _the publisher gets to keep a lot of the money coming in_. While Kickstarter gets their share on this, a lot of these 4.2 million are money in the bank for Obsidian, and when they eventually complete and sell the game, they can do so on their own, without sharing with a publisher. Keep that in mind when you compare it to traditional budgets!
Yeah, I wish I remembered who said this (correct me if i'm wrong) but i believe it was as little as $7 out of $60 going back to the developers. Which, imo, is pretty insane (heard music industry is worse as little as 50c an album). I'm not sure if digital distribution has changed those numbers (highly unlikely i guess) but i hope they make a good deal of money off this and it allows more 'niche' games to flourish and helps alleviate the risk a bit for devs.
I would love an industry where the majority of the money goes back to the people who created the product in the first place rather than some faceless middle man who's only desire is to make money off others work.
Mr. Tact wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 09:23:Or just a Kickstarter to make money!
It is the nature of the "game". It takes money to make money.
Denthor wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 04:49:It is the nature of the "game". It takes money to make money.
I would love an industry where the majority of the money goes back to the people who created the product in the first place rather than some faceless middle man who's only desire is to make money off others work.
Denthor wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 04:49:It's worst than that, publishers steal the IP.Sho wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 03:34:
Everybody here seems to be forgetting that if you do a game for a publisher, _the publisher gets to keep a lot of the money coming in_. While Kickstarter gets their share on this, a lot of these 4.2 million are money in the bank for Obsidian, and when they eventually complete and sell the game, they can do so on their own, without sharing with a publisher. Keep that in mind when you compare it to traditional budgets!
Yeah, I wish I remembered who said this (correct me if i'm wrong) but i believe it was as little as $7 out of $60 going back to the developers. Which, imo, is pretty insane (heard music industry is worse as little as 50c an album). I'm not sure if digital distribution has changed those numbers (highly unlikely i guess) but i hope they make a good deal of money off this and it allows more 'niche' games to flourish and helps alleviate the risk a bit for devs.
I would love an industry where the majority of the money goes back to the people who created the product in the first place rather than some faceless middle man who's only desire is to make money off others work.
TychoCelchuuu wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 03:01:Yeah, I really liked DX3 but there's really no comparison to choice and consequence with AP. I got a big shock trying to replay DX3 after Dishonored, gameplay is much smoother in Dishonored.Prez wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 00:06:I've played Alpha Protocol 3 times and haven't seen anything near all of the content. Your choices in AP matter way more than in DX3. Not that DX3 is awful. But AP is in another league.I'm apparently one of the few people who enjoyed AP.
I thought it was REALLY good. Until Deus Ex Human Revolution it was the best choice and consequence FPS since the original Deus Ex imo.
Sho wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 03:34:
Everybody here seems to be forgetting that if you do a game for a publisher, _the publisher gets to keep a lot of the money coming in_. While Kickstarter gets their share on this, a lot of these 4.2 million are money in the bank for Obsidian, and when they eventually complete and sell the game, they can do so on their own, without sharing with a publisher. Keep that in mind when you compare it to traditional budgets!
Prez wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 00:06:I've played Alpha Protocol 3 times and haven't seen anything near all of the content. Your choices in AP matter way more than in DX3. Not that DX3 is awful. But AP is in another league.I'm apparently one of the few people who enjoyed AP.
I thought it was REALLY good. Until Deus Ex Human Revolution it was the best choice and consequence FPS since the original Deus Ex imo.
Creston wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 02:32:RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2012, 23:32:
Agreed, sure LucasArts rushed them with Kotor 2, I get that, but when you sign a contract to deliver in XX amount of months, be able to do so.
Same with AP, Sega's not exactly rolling in the money these days and I always thought that was kinda a odd paring with them as a publisher on that type of game anyway.
For as good as a game FO:NV turned out to be it was pretty bugtastic at launch as well. Seems to be a running theme with Obsidian imo.
Avellone has said (in last week's AMA) that the blame for Kotor2 falls squarely on Obsidian, not on LA. They tried to bite off more than they could chew and they failed.
Apparently Dungeon Siege 3 actually was pretty solid out the gate, and they said they changed their internal QA procedures right before that. So hopefully things will run better this time around. I do think that if there are big issues, they will just get patched. They don't have to wait for a publisher to come up with money to pay for it. (plus they don't have to deal with MS and Sony's certification process.)
Creston
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2012, 23:32:
Agreed, sure LucasArts rushed them with Kotor 2, I get that, but when you sign a contract to deliver in XX amount of months, be able to do so.
Same with AP, Sega's not exactly rolling in the money these days and I always thought that was kinda a odd paring with them as a publisher on that type of game anyway.
For as good as a game FO:NV turned out to be it was pretty bugtastic at launch as well. Seems to be a running theme with Obsidian imo.
mellis wrote on Oct 20, 2012, 21:34:
It still bothers me how little $4 million is for developing a AAA game. Obsidian is not a small developer, their burn rate must be substantial.
Their staffing levels certainly appear sufficient (based on the team photo) to actually get a AAA title out the door, but $4 million is going to disappear in no-time. Some analyst was recently quoted as saying that it costs $20-30 *million* to produce an -->average<-- AAA title. Granted that's likely to include cross-platform ports, but even so - $4 million is a long way shy of even half that number.
A high profile developer - I'm pretty sure it was one who made games for LucasArts in the distant past - commented that (And again, I can't find the damned link) that PC only Monkey Island 3 or maybe Grim Fandango cost in the region of $13 million to make. Those are not recent games and that's a lot of money, a lot more than $4 million...
People who chipped in (myself included) have Baldurs Gate/Planescape esque expectations - I wonder how realistic they *actually* are.
Xil wrote on Oct 21, 2012, 01:06:
I am sort of getting more question marks with this, they keep going on about the expanstion packs and such while the game is not out yet and then this comment:The first game is only one moderately sized nation in a much, much, much bigger world where a lot of other things are going on. There's plenty more room for games in that universe and that's what we'd like to do.
make me worried a bit that we gone end up with a small game which has the 14-15 lvl dungeon the city and that is about it.... lets hope I am wrong