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Morning Metaverse

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44. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2012, 16:23 Ant
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 20, 2012, 16:10:
Ant wrote on Oct 20, 2012, 14:26:
Has Obama actually kept any of his promises? Or does that only apply to republicans? It's ok for dems to lie, or not follow through on things, just not republicans? Is that how it goes in liberal magical fantasy world?
Has any Presidents kept their promises?

Sadly most don't. Can't disagree there. Obviously I'm bias being a fiscal conservative, so that automatically makes me not able to vote for democrats, not that I generally like the republican choice either. Like I've said, I'm far far far from a Mittens fan. It's like voting for the lesser of two evils.
Ah, for me. I just don't bother.
 
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43. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2012, 16:10 RollinThundr
 
Ant wrote on Oct 20, 2012, 14:26:
Has Obama actually kept any of his promises? Or does that only apply to republicans? It's ok for dems to lie, or not follow through on things, just not republicans? Is that how it goes in liberal magical fantasy world?
Has any Presidents kept their promises?

Sadly most don't. Can't disagree there. Obviously I'm bias being a fiscal conservative, so that automatically makes me not able to vote for democrats, not that I generally like the republican choice either. Like I've said, I'm far far far from a Mittens fan. It's like voting for the lesser of two evils.
 
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42. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 20, 2012, 14:26 Ant
 
Has Obama actually kept any of his promises? Or does that only apply to republicans? It's ok for dems to lie, or not follow through on things, just not republicans? Is that how it goes in liberal magical fantasy world?
Has any Presidents kept their promises?
 
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41. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 17:19 Prez
 
I take special offense to Christianity itself because seldom do I ever see so many people as Christians claiming to be of, by, and for their religion while acting all but entirely against it. The core tenants of Christianity are compassion (like for GAY PEOPLE), forgiveness (like for CRIMINALS ON DEATH ROW), and charity (like WELFARE).

All I am saying is that it sounds from your tone that you would be unwilling to actually objectively consider a Christian's counterpoints. I am not one but my wife is, and I know what she would say at least to the welfare point, just to present an example - in its current form welfare's downside trumps its charitable aspect; it creates a cycle of dependency rather than encouraging self-sufficiency which in turn robs people of their dignity, which she sees as anything but compassionate in the long term. Your view tidily ignores that a huge percentage of all soup kitchens and homeless shelters are run by religious organizations on a strictly volunteer basis. Where's the reasoned consideration there? Whether or not you agree with what they have to say, it doesn't fit your broad brush-painting of Christians as bigoted haters lacking compassion. Your tone (and frankly that of virtually all of the Christian haters here) clearly indicates someone who is unwilling to consider the other less extreme, less close-minded possibilities.

For all sides, it's more comfortable believing everyone who has values counter to their own fits into a neat, easily refutable, dismiss-able vilified category rather than considering that there may have been less insidious thought processes behind their stance. It's no different than saying all liberals are Marxist freedom-haters.

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 2012, 17:26.
 
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40. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 16:52 PHJF
 
No offense, but can you honestly say you are less extreme or biased (simply on the opposite side of the spectrum) after objectively reading your own comments on religion?

Any and all organized religion is a cancer with no purpose practical or otherwise in any modern civilization. One could argue the merits of the various religious charities, but then one could as easily argue doing good not for the sake of one's eternal soul but for the sake of doing good.

I take special offense to Christianity itself because seldom do I ever see so many people as Christians claiming to be of, by, and for their religion while acting all but entirely against it. The core tenants of Christianity are compassion (like for GAY PEOPLE), forgiveness (like for CRIMINALS ON DEATH ROW), and charity (like WELFARE).
 
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39. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 16:25 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 13:47:
No offense but drawing a line in the sand where you just label things liberal or not liberal is really silly and not conducive to any reasonable discussion.

If you don't like what he poses, challenge it. As in actually challenge it instead of simply calling it liberal and using a bunch of catchphrases. The idea that anyone with liberal leaning world views somehow relies on government handouts for everything is ridiculously vague and inaccurate. Dismissing other people with such simplistic labels that do not fit is no better than someone says who all Republicans are nutbars like Rush.

For the record I am not a fan of any organized religion and I am far from "liberal", although I do hold certain views that might be interpreted that way. Islam is not the dominant religion in North America influencing political, educational and social policy. When it is people will complain about that instead.

You seem to think the media is owned by the left, I don't really agree as I don't have to look far to find conservative leaning views. But even if it was true, you don't fight their perceptions by feeding into them with anger and inaccurate rhetoric. This polarizing bullshit between the left and the right is what is ruining this country, all politics is partisan to some degree but we all need to reach across to get things done before China takes our role as a world leader.

Once it would be nice to actually debate these things instead of fighting over who is conservative, liberal or randian.

I'm not a fan of religion myself, I find it causes more issues than it solves. But the difference being, I don't chose which religions are deemed "ok" and which aren't. Dems tend to excuse Islam on a regular basis while condemning Christianity in the same breath. Reality doesn't work that way. You're either for all religions having the right to worship which is in the constitution or you're against all of them.

Most of the media IS left leaning, like I said, if a Republican president failed to pass a budget for an entire term, we'd not hear the end of it. Obama has failed to get a budget passed, and before people use the "Republican congress won't work with him" line, he had his party in control of congress for nearly half his term and still got very little done in that aspect being to focused on pushing his socialized health care bullshit.
 
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38. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 16:02 Beamer
 
Speaking of the media, it was going nuts over Romnesia today (or at least, while I was eating lunch, this is all I saw over closed captions.)

While it's clever, c'mon. Any time I've mocked Romney's move back to center to my parents (honestly, I've mocked his move away, as I believe he's a centrist, also believe he'll say anything anyone wants to hear), they just shrug and say "everyone does this."

So it's clever, but Romney supporters are all aware the guy is all over the place and that we don't really have much reason to know what he'll support when it matters. They just don't care, because, you know, politics.

Sadly, they're not really wrong. It's more a statement of how messed up all our politics are than anything else.
 
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37. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 15:55 Prez
 
PHJF wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 13:06:
He's clearly one of The Lost and beyond all hope of reasoning. Time to enter the land of the ignored, you sorry sod.

No offense, but can you honestly say you are less extreme or biased (simply on the opposite side of the spectrum) after objectively reading your own comments on religion? I hardly find anything in that response to have been formed using reason, but instead anger and bitterness. It's fine if that's how you feel (which I am pretty sure it is since you are a pretty straight shooter) but it isn't exactly a shining example of the tempered, open-minded rationale that you are seeking from Rolling Thunder. Verno said much the same as you did but in a way that actually welcomes discussion and debate.

I wonder if by claiming that I am far more worried about Islam than Christianity myself will I set off discussion as to why or automatically be labeled as a bible-thumping bigot? Again, objective reason versus dismisssive extremism.

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 2012, 16:23.
 
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36. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 13:47 Verno
 
No offense but drawing a line in the sand where you just label things liberal or not liberal is really silly and not conducive to any reasonable discussion.

If you don't like what he poses, challenge it. As in actually challenge it instead of simply calling it liberal and using a bunch of catchphrases. The idea that anyone with liberal leaning world views somehow relies on government handouts for everything is ridiculously vague and inaccurate. Dismissing other people with such simplistic labels that do not fit is no better than someone says who all Republicans are nutbars like Rush.

For the record I am not a fan of any organized religion and I am far from "liberal", although I do hold certain views that might be interpreted that way. Islam is not the dominant religion in North America influencing political, educational and social policy. When it is people will complain about that instead.

You seem to think the media is owned by the left, I don't really agree as I don't have to look far to find conservative leaning views. But even if it was true, you don't fight their perceptions by feeding into them with anger and inaccurate rhetoric. This polarizing bullshit between the left and the right is what is ruining this country, all politics is partisan to some degree but we all need to reach across to get things done before China takes our role as a world leader.

Once it would be nice to actually debate these things instead of fighting over who is conservative, liberal or randian.

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 2012, 13:53.
 
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35. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 13:40 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 12:43:
Nothing he said has anything to do with "liberal", you really need to stop misusing that word and challenge ideas directly.
here's a reason Fox News is so outwardly "Christian". Religions, like Fox, prey on uneducated, uninformed, stupid people. These people are brought in with promises of shelter and warm milk and utterly indoctrinated, trained to be soldiers for the cause. The difference between the two being that at the top of Fox News we have the bona fide 1%, the wealthy elite who are smart enough not to buy into the shit they themselves shovel but ruthless enough to keep shoveling it, all for the sake of making another buck. Snake oil salesmen of the 21st century with all the world's resources and technology at their fingertips.

I dunno Verno, I'd say that's a pretty liberal line of logic right there. Involving all the key messages the liberal left likes to spew over and over again. Religion sucks, the 1% shovel shit and are evil, though you know at least they contribute to the world and the work force rather than those that rely on government to hand hold them through life, and hate directed at Fox News..

One conservative cable news channel, and liberals can't stand that even 1 exist. They have the rest of cable and network news, most of the major news papers and publications, but can't stand that there's one conservative station out there so much they have to bash it every 30 seconds. It's actually pretty humorous to me anyway.
 
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34. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 13:06 PHJF
 
He's clearly one of The Lost and beyond all hope of reasoning. Time to enter the land of the ignored, you sorry sod.  
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33. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 12:43 Verno
 
Nothing he said has anything to do with "liberal", you really need to stop misusing that word and challenge ideas directly.  
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32. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 12:21 RollinThundr
 
PHJF wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 11:38:
Would love to hear your views on Islam, or is only Christianty evil?

America doesn't have a Muslim problem, it has a Christian one. Like it or not Ron Paul was correct: our consistent imperialistic policies of interventionism on an international scale has marked us as enemy to much of the world.

There's no rich liberals in the world, and Obama has recieved no lobbying campaign dollars from big business.

Bill Gates didn't start a "news" organization and use it as a means to push his personal agenda. Bill Gates uses his position to try and stop people dying from malaria half the world away.

And stop bringing up Obama. I didn't mention a single politician and immediately you peg me as an Obama-praising democrat. Keep living in that bubble, buddy.

Dude you're spouting the liberal play book almost word for word. DOWN WITH THE 1% but shh there's a assload of 1% liberals, Religion is evil but hey we're the party of tolerance, Islam is peaceful.
"Not every Republican is raciest, but if you're a raciest you're prolly republican" Bill Maher.

etc etc etc.

Like I said for a party that prattles on about tolerance, I don't think I've heard more vile and intolerance and flat out bullshit, than from the mouths of liberal pundants, and folks like you drink it up like it's ambrosia.
 
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31. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 11:41 Beamer
 
PHJF wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 11:38:
And stop bringing up Obama. I didn't mention a single politician and immediately you peg me as an Obama-praising democrat. Keep living in that bubble, buddy.

That's what happens in politics today. If you don't agree you clearly must be a fanboy of the other guy, even if you think the other guy also kind of sucks and isn't very different.

I don't know why anyone would watch any 24 hour cable news station. All they do is spin and babble. CNN is the least bad of the bunch, but it's hysterical to see the stupid crap Fox News gets away with repeatedly.

I enjoy the Daily Show. Don't care about Stewart's politics, but I love the segments showing how asinine and low-IQ the cable news channels are.
 
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30. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 11:38 PHJF
 
Would love to hear your views on Islam, or is only Christianty evil?

America doesn't have a Muslim problem, it has a Christian one. Like it or not Ron Paul was correct: our consistent imperialistic policies of interventionism on an international scale has marked us as enemy to much of the world.

There's no rich liberals in the world, and Obama has recieved no lobbying campaign dollars from big business.

Bill Gates didn't start a "news" organization and use it as a means to push his personal agenda. Bill Gates uses his position to try and stop people dying from malaria half the world away.

And stop bringing up Obama. I didn't mention a single politician and immediately you peg me as an Obama-praising democrat. Keep living in that bubble, buddy.
 
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29. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 11:24 RollinThundr
 
PHJF wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 11:07:
We can talk all we want about the bias of NPR

Are there biased people working for NPR? Yeah.

Are there biased local NPR stations? Sure.

Is NPR as a whole biased? Absolutely not.

The three big shows on NPR are All Things Considered, Morning Edition, and Talk of the Nation. All Things Considered is about as mild as possible for straight news to get. Morning Edition tends to get interspersed with local content that can bias either way. Talk of the Nation is obviously going to bias toward whomever is calling in, but Neil Conan as the host is extremely mild. And then in later evening commutes we get Marketplace, which if anything being a business show is conservative.

The whole "NPR is liberal" shtick exists because NPR is the polar opposite of Fox News with respect to journalistic integrity. The masses of idiot morons digesting Bill O year after year have essentially developed such a dependence on Fox News that when presented with totally unbiased, reasonable journalism they immediately adopt a hostile, defensive stance. Maddow was totally right on that point: Fox News (and viewers) live in this alternate-reality bubble. Fox News has taken masses of stupid Americans and, like some kind of crazy Amazonian rainforest parasite, slowly and surely brainwashed their regular viewers to the point that anything said against or contrary to Fox News is regarded as an act of hostility to be denied wholesale or otherwise undermined.

There's a reason Fox News is so outwardly "Christian". Religions, like Fox, prey on uneducated, uninformed, stupid people. These people are brought in with promises of shelter and warm milk and utterly indoctrinated, trained to be soldiers for the cause. The difference between the two being that at the top of Fox News we have the bona fide 1%, the wealthy elite who are smart enough not to buy into the shit they themselves shovel but ruthless enough to keep shoveling it, all for the sake of making another buck. Snake oil salesmen of the 21st century with all the world's resources and technology at their fingertips.

There's no rich liberals in the world, and Obama has recieved no lobbying campaign dollars from big business. Right. mmmm that liberal kool aid is potent shit.

Would love to hear your views on Islam, or is only Christianty evil?
 
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28. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 11:21 Prez
 
Journalists are people, and people generally have a bias. It seems unrealistic to expect that their bias wouldn't manifest itself in at least some manner in the course of doing their job. As viewers I think most of us are able to separate said bias from the hard facts that are being reported; I think what people are concerned with is how the bias we are seeing influence others who may not be as discerning about their information. Liberals automatically consider you a brainwashed neocon if you watch Fox News, and conservatives will brand you a Marxist progressive if you admit to watching MSNBC. What am I when I watch both? Why is it that you can consider yourself above the influence of the bias but can't accept that someone else may be able to as well?  
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27. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 11:15 RollinThundr
 
InBlack wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 10:42:
It doesn't matter what he does, he gets praise regardless for who he is. If a Republican did any of those things, people would be calling for his head on a stake.

This is fucking hilarious. So basically his policies are okay, but HE is not an okay president because he is...what....a democrat, black, doesnt like rich people??? LoL, just LoL...

Dude his policies suck, his foreign policy consists of apologizing for America, and going against our allies on a regular basis. Israel especially.
 
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26. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 11:13 RollinThundr
 
Verno wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 10:29:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 19, 2012, 10:01:

Do those 5 million green jobs created include all the alternative energy companies he gave tax payer money to who went under?

How bout the auto industry one? Was that before or after bailing out GM and Chrysler with our money?

You might not like his decisions but he is pretty good about keeping his campaign promises which is what you were questioning. The auto industry bailout was absolutely necessary from an economic standpoint by the way, at the time the economy was reeling and could not suffer losing over 100k jobs and practically bankrupting an entire state. Republican governance is no stranger to stimulus and relief either, they are smart economic tools when used appropriately.

Obama will not be beaten by coming at him from the right, he's too moderate for that and those voters were already in the bag anyway. Whenever I see people posting that kind of stuff I just wince because they simply do not get it. People need to stop watching TV pundits and start reading. It would also be helpful if Romney would stop trumpeting a tax plan that cannot ever work when he is trying to take the high road on the economy. I'm an informed Republican, please treat me like an adult instead of some sycophant who will lap up whatever they see on the telly. At this point I'm ready to abstain because Romney can't even explain some of his most important platforms and that scares the shit out of me as a voter.

I don't agree with several of Obamas ideas (I do like the idea of universal health care but believe he is funding it all wrong) and I really dislike how far back he is setting privacy in this country (for a Democrat he has some remarkably Conservative views) but at least he has a plan other than simply trying to get elected.

No I actually agree with you here, though the attention is focused in the wrong place, attacks on the rich and job creators, and acting like slavery is still legal, rather than focusing on how much we're spending. We need a fiscal conservative in office, I don't care if its a republican, democrat or independant.

I've said before I don't like Romney either, I hate what his health care crap did to Mass, I live here, I have to deal with it. He also flip flops as bad as Kerry.

I just wish the liberal media would hold Obama accountable for things they'd roast a republican for.
 
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25. Re: Morning Metaverse Oct 19, 2012, 11:10 Beamer
 
I agree with you - the only people that believe NPR has a strong bias are those that don't realize how ridiculously absurd the Fox News bias and spin is.

But those people are beyond reaching.
 
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