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Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2

The Kickstarter Campaign for Project Eternity keeps turning up the marketing heat, announcing a new $165 digital-only tier. This represents the support Obsidian Entertainment is getting from inXile Entertainment and old comrade Brian Fargo, as it will include a copy of Wasteland 2 as well as a copy of the first expansion pack for Project Eternity, which is expected about six months after the release of the upcoming RPG.

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22. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 12, 2012, 21:29 Dev
 
Optional Nickname! wrote on Oct 9, 2012, 15:29:
The link between Kickstarter and Amazon Payments was a hurdle for me to participate in Kickstarter, as a long-time Amazon user I felt it unwise to have the two accounts associated in any way.

With multiple ways to pay, even though nothing has changed with the Amazon/Kickstarter linkage, I chose the convenience of Amazon payments and hope that the 3rd party policy of Amazon is not to share purchase history with Kickstater.
No, the project you KS only gets the money. They don't even know what its for. I don't believe KS the company gets any info either. And each time you make a purchase that way you have to approve it with amazon. Amazon doesn't know what its for either, just the amount and who its going to.

If it bothers you, you could wait and use paypal, either after a project hits its goal (many of the larger ones start taking paypal at that point) or after the KS is over, many projects usually start taking pre-orders. Or one could setup another amazon account with another credit card, and use those things only for KS, and thus avoid any chance at amazon data sharing your purchases.
 
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21. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 15:29 Optional Nickname!
 
The link between Kickstarter and Amazon Payments was a hurdle for me to participate in Kickstarter, as a long-time Amazon user I felt it unwise to have the two accounts associated in any way.

With multiple ways to pay, even though nothing has changed with the Amazon/Kickstarter linkage, I chose the convenience of Amazon payments and hope that the 3rd party policy of Amazon is not to share purchase history with Kickstater.

Bezos vs. Musk is a difficult choice. One puts stuff in orbit the other rockets that stuff to your house asap. One tries to destroy the printed word (Kindle-Bezos) while the other goes back on his words (Ebay - seller TOS).

Sigh. Go get 'em Feargus!

 
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20. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 11:12 John
 
By expansion planning I meant planning what's going to be in the expansion, not that they are planning to do an expansion.

And their 'testing a new funding system' looks to be doing pretty well! I wonder how much they have so far in Paypal backers..

Edit: Also I see they just reached 55k backers meaning we get another Mega Dungeon level!
 
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19. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 11:07 Bhruic
 
John wrote on Oct 9, 2012, 10:22:
They've got enough stretch goals to put into the game in not too much time so I don't see them doing any expansion planning now. They just wanted to sweeten the $165 digital tier for the people that asked for it.

They've added a price point with a reward of "digital copy of the expansion". How is that not planning the expansion?

And sure, they've done expansions for games before. They've also used publishers before. Having done it before doesn't (and shouldn't) make it an automatic now, especially when they are - effectively - testing a new funding system.
 
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18. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 10:22 John
 
Domgrief wrote on Oct 9, 2012, 09:08:
Whose creative vision includes an expansion pack?
Mine does.

I don't see what the big deal is anyways. They have done expansions for many games in the past so they just expect to do one for this too. It's not like they're going to be working on that instead of the actual game. They've got enough stretch goals to put into the game in not too much time so I don't see them doing any expansion planning now. They just wanted to sweeten the $165 digital tier for the people that asked for it.

This comment was edited on Oct 9, 2012, 10:27.
 
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17. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 10:05 Bhruic
 
Creston wrote on Oct 9, 2012, 01:41:
Now if the kickstarter ISN'T funding the expansion (as it shouldn't), and suppose the game really doesn't sell very well, where are they getting the money for the expansion pack from? Are they going to do another Kickstarter for it at that time? Or are they gambling that it will sell well enough for them to afford the expansion (since obviously any copy sold will basically be pure profit for them.)

On top of that is just the mentality that they are looking at the project with. They should be focused on making the game (granted at this point it's a foregone conclusion they can fund it). Already having decided that they are going to have an expansion before they've even started working on the game feels a lot like day 0 DLC - stuff they've left out of the game in order to monetize. Hopefully that's not the case here, but it definitely leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.

edit: I guess what I'm really worried about is companies treating Kickstarter like they were publishers. They are likely used to the idea that publishers want to go the expansion route (or DLC these days), that they can approach them for funding to make it (if it hasn't been decided ahead of time), etc. People going into a Kickstarter aren't the same. When you put money up front like this, the expectation is that they in turn are going to put that money into making an incredible game. How they can accomplish that when they've already committed to an expansion is dubious. When they have an idea, are they going to say "well, we'll save that for the expansion"? And what's that going to say to the people who funded the project, but didn't get the expansion included?
 
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16. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 09:08 Domgrief
 
Kind of goes against the whole "Kickstarter is not a shop" motto, doesn't it?

I'm delighted to be able to share some of my hard earned cash to help these guys realise their creative vision, and I'm sure it'll be fun.

Whose creative vision includes an expansion pack?
 
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15. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 03:36 dj LiTh
 
Creston wrote on Oct 9, 2012, 01:41:
dj LiTh wrote on Oct 8, 2012, 23:29:
Why do you people think this game has to sell even 1 copy post release to be considered a success when they're getting the money upfront to pay for their future salaries for the completion of the game and probably then some?

Well, it's that "and then some" that I'm a bit dubious about. People who are paying now are paying for the Project Eternity game. Not for Project Eternity, and then some expansion pack 6 months later, which the majority of those who funded the game would have to buy separately.

They swear that's not the case, but I still can't shake a bit of discomfort at them already talking about an expansion, long long long before the actual game is ready. (Or, for that matter, probably before they've even really begun any coding work.)

Now if the kickstarter ISN'T funding the expansion (as it shouldn't), and suppose the game really doesn't sell very well, where are they getting the money for the expansion pack from? Are they going to do another Kickstarter for it at that time? Or are they gambling that it will sell well enough for them to afford the expansion (since obviously any copy sold will basically be pure profit for them.)

I'm not saying that I don't hope that that's the case; I hope they sell millions and millions of copies. But I think it's a bit premature for them to start talking expansions this frakking early in their dev cycle.

Creston

Only backers at a certain level are getting the expansion pack as well. So you can make the case that anyone who's not getting it is not funding it. Also considering the fact how much money those backers put in, a "free" expansion pack is justified for that level of financial commitment.
 
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14. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 01:41 Creston
 
dj LiTh wrote on Oct 8, 2012, 23:29:
Why do you people think this game has to sell even 1 copy post release to be considered a success when they're getting the money upfront to pay for their future salaries for the completion of the game and probably then some?

Well, it's that "and then some" that I'm a bit dubious about. People who are paying now are paying for the Project Eternity game. Not for Project Eternity, and then some expansion pack 6 months later, which the majority of those who funded the game would have to buy separately.

They swear that's not the case, but I still can't shake a bit of discomfort at them already talking about an expansion, long long long before the actual game is ready. (Or, for that matter, probably before they've even really begun any coding work.)

Now if the kickstarter ISN'T funding the expansion (as it shouldn't), and suppose the game really doesn't sell very well, where are they getting the money for the expansion pack from? Are they going to do another Kickstarter for it at that time? Or are they gambling that it will sell well enough for them to afford the expansion (since obviously any copy sold will basically be pure profit for them.)

I'm not saying that I don't hope that that's the case; I hope they sell millions and millions of copies. But I think it's a bit premature for them to start talking expansions this frakking early in their dev cycle.

Creston
 
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13. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 9, 2012, 00:46 Mr. Tact
 
I haven't contributed to any of these kickstarters yet, but they and the people here almost have me convinced for this one...  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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12. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 23:29 dj LiTh
 
Why do you people think this game has to sell even 1 copy post release to be considered a success when they're getting the money upfront to pay for their future salaries for the completion of the game and probably then some?  
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11. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 23:29 nin
 
. If they really are getting so much money that they can't possibly be creating all that money's worth of content in 18 months, and thus we're now technically funding the expansion as well

They swear that's not the case, but given the circumstances, I'm a little skeptical.

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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10. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 23:27 Creston
 
jacobvandy wrote on Oct 8, 2012, 22:28:
Like they said, people have ASKED for a more expensive digital-only tier. If it doesn't appeal to you, you don't have to pledge that much and/or choose that particular reward. Obviously if you're even entertaining the idea of spending more than $20-50 on this Kickstarter, you're interested in more than just buying a copy of the game, so adding extras to those tiers is just icing on the cake, their way of saying thanks again to some very generous people who are really investing in the project. You don't "need to go all the way to $250" to get a physical copy plus the expansion... just throw in your $65 for the box and then wait until the expansion is out to buy that for its regular price. Need I remind you that pledging is VOLUNTARY?

Also, people are going to flip their shit no matter what post-release, pay-content is ever conceived for any game before it comes out because of the climate of the industry, but keep in mind they planned very carefully to make a game for $1.1 million in about 18 months; if they keep getting flooded with money, they can only tack on so many stretch goals before they get to the point where expanding development sideways is going to become cumbersome. I.e. at some point they have to say "OKAY, this is what we're doing in that set amount of time, everything else will come later." I think they're being very RESPONSIBLE in doing so, and starting to make plans for an expansion pack that they can take an extra six months to make, rather than delay the release of the whole game trying to pack in all the shit they promised at once. Or would you rather they double the size of their studio and risk ruining the cohesion and synergy of the core team?

You make a lot of good point, but I dunno, it just seems a bit off to me to be already talking about an expansion pack. The actual GAME itself is still 18 months out!

It just seems like not the kind of thing they should be focusing on. If they really are getting so much money that they can't possibly be creating all that money's worth of content in 18 months, and thus we're now technically funding the expansion as well, shouldn't everyone who donated be getting that expansion?

I dunno, it just feels a bit off to me.

Creston
 
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9. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 23:13 John
 
Dev wrote on Oct 8, 2012, 21:58:
FTL was kickstarted 2000% above its goal and it didn't stop it at all from selling a pile of copies on steam.
Yeah, I'm sure they'll get lots of extra sales once the game is released. There's a lot more people who don't do Kickstarter. I will stay on the $140 tier however because I did back WL2 and I'll just buy the PE expansion when it comes out. It's cool they offer that as an option though. If they make those into "addons" to current tiers they could probably make even more.
 
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8. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 22:43 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Zyrxil wrote on Oct 8, 2012, 21:58:
This is...odd. What miniscule percentage of Project Eternity supporters weren't already funders of Wasteland 2?
PE is the first kickstarter for me, so I guess I'm part of that miniscule percentage.
 
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and it is always wrong."
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7. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 22:28 jacobvandy
 
Like they said, people have ASKED for a more expensive digital-only tier. If it doesn't appeal to you, you don't have to pledge that much and/or choose that particular reward. Obviously if you're even entertaining the idea of spending more than $20-50 on this Kickstarter, you're interested in more than just buying a copy of the game, so adding extras to those tiers is just icing on the cake, their way of saying thanks again to some very generous people who are really investing in the project. You don't "need to go all the way to $250" to get a physical copy plus the expansion... just throw in your $65 for the box and then wait until the expansion is out to buy that for its regular price. Need I remind you that pledging is VOLUNTARY?

Also, people are going to flip their shit no matter what post-release, pay-content is ever conceived for any game before it comes out because of the climate of the industry, but keep in mind they planned very carefully to make a game for $1.1 million in about 18 months; if they keep getting flooded with money, they can only tack on so many stretch goals before they get to the point where expanding development sideways is going to become cumbersome. I.e. at some point they have to say "OKAY, this is what we're doing in that set amount of time, everything else will come later." I think they're being very RESPONSIBLE in doing so, and starting to make plans for an expansion pack that they can take an extra six months to make, rather than delay the release of the whole game trying to pack in all the shit they promised at once. Or would you rather they double the size of their studio and risk ruining the cohesion and synergy of the core team?

This comment was edited on Oct 8, 2012, 22:34.
 
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6. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 22:19 Cutter
 
Yeah. I don't like anything that doesn't focus on the main game. Just get one good game out and then we'll talk expansions, etc., ok? And yeah, you'd think most backers here are probably already down with W2. Besides the game the first and only stretch goal I'm concerned with is a good editor for players to use to extend the life of the game for years.
 
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5. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 22:08 nin
 
Creston wrote on Oct 8, 2012, 21:26:
Errr... you haven't even figured out how many stretch goals you'll have to honor, but you've already planned an expansion pack?

Shouldn't you also wait and see how many sales you'll get? 60K customers probably won't make for enough of an expansion pack audience, seeing as how you'd have to fund that the normal way...

Creston


This update felt like a bit of a misstep. While they swear that all funds raised now go towards the main game (and not the expansion), it still seems a little tacky/premature to start talking about expansions.

Also, I think their ever increasing price tiers are getting a little out of hand. $165? Really?! And since it's "digital only", if you wanted a box, its possible you'd need to go all the way to $250 to get the boxed copy along with the expansion (not sure if they've clarified that yet or not).

It's a fine line between using people's good will and fleecing them, and they're getting close...

 
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4. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 21:58 Zyrxil
 
This is...odd. What miniscule percentage of Project Eternity supporters weren't already funders of Wasteland 2?  
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3. Re: Project Eternity Kickstarter Adds Wasteland 2 Oct 8, 2012, 21:58 Dev
 
Creston wrote on Oct 8, 2012, 21:26:
Errr... you haven't even figured out how many stretch goals you'll have to honor, but you've already planned an expansion pack?

Shouldn't you also wait and see how many sales you'll get? 60K customers probably won't make for enough of an expansion pack audience, seeing as how you'd have to fund that the normal way...

Creston
Other kickstarters have done that too, offering expansion as a stretch goal, or included in the higher tiers. Pretty sure obsidian knows the price of such an expansion and if they can handle it with the expected sales. Or even handle it with the current funding alone.

FTL was kickstarted 2000% above its goal and it didn't stop it at all from selling a pile of copies on steam.
 
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