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Gatherings & Competitions

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226. Re: Gatherings & Competitions Oct 6, 2012, 03:12 Wowbagger_TIP
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 5, 2012, 14:37:
Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Oct 5, 2012, 12:48:
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 5, 2012, 11:33:
I actually pretty much agree with all of this verno, but you have to do it smartly on both ends, we can't just raise taxes and continue to spend hand over foot, regardless, be it military or social handouts or whatever senator's pet project etc etc.

At the end of the day cuts WILL have to happen somewhere.

I think we all agree that there need to be cuts. But there also needs to be tax increases. Those can come from actual increases, or from a (desperately needed) simplification of the tax code that removes loopholes and deductions. Romney talks a lot about that, but refuses to put out an actual plan, which makes me think he doesn't actually have one. Leaving it to Congress to work out is not a plan.

Cutting social programs and things like PBS that don't even show up as a blip on the national budget is just pandering and not a serious attempt at fixing the problems. Putting two wars on the national credit card, while simultaneously giving a tax cut, really hurt us. If we don't have social programs to help people get back on their feet so that they can have at least the bare necessities that will allow them to look for jobs and show up looking halfway decent for interviews, we're never going to get out of the funk we're in. For all the rhetoric we've heard about Obama giving handouts, the welfare rules are about as tough today as they've ever been, aside from waivers that were granted to the states (most of them under Bush, btw) that gives people more time. This is all controlled by the states though. They determine how best to handle it, but it allows people time for re-training and such so that they have a better chance of getting off of unemployment.

We also still need to do more to fix SS and Medicare, but I don't see either side talking about that seriously. I'm totally not shocked.

Health care is still a problem. Obamacare has helped some, but doesn't do nearly enough. Romney doesn't appear to even have a plan. He's just made a lot of statements about how his plan would be run by the states and would totally have all the stuff we like from Obamacare, like covering pre-existing conditions, but it wouldn't have a mandate, so how it gets paid for is anyone's guess. He sure isn't saying.

I'm basically just frustrated with the choices we have. Neither party is doing what needs to be done. I'm only leaning to the Dems because they actually have a middle in addition to their left wing. The GOP really needs to clean house and get some moderates back in the party. Have you listened to these guys talk on the floor of the House? It's nuts. Most of them don't have the brain cells required to lead a trip to McDonald's, let alone lead this country.

Again well said, cept the part about Obamacare, it hasn't helped at all, it's making health insurance costs more across the board, and really, it abuses the commerce clause and is unconstitutional.
Well, the USSC disagrees about the constitutionality. Republicans never seem to be concerned about abusing the commerce clause when it suits their purposes anyway, so why the fuss now? As for whether it's helped, most of it hasn't even gone into effect yet, so I don't see how it could have done much at this point. Costs have been on the rise forever now, so what increases are you attributing to it at this point? It's still a lousy plan overall, but it's somewhat better than what we've had up til now.


RollinThundr wrote on Oct 5, 2012, 14:37:
Romney at least is talking about fixing the tax code, something Obama said he would do 4 years ago, and we're still waiting for that to happen.
Yeah, well everything takes longer when you've got a party in charge of the House who have explicitly stated their goal of making you fail at every turn. Is it really that surprising?

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 5, 2012, 14:37:
I'm fine with raising taxes, but I'm not fine with raising taxes unless there are major cuts across the board on what we're spending.

There's no easy way, sadly there really isn't but unless we want another great depression and ultimately becoming a 3rd world shit hole, it has to happen.
Cuts have been put on the table at something like a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio with tax increases, but the new tea partiers in the Congress weren't willing to even discuss it. Somehow Romney thinks he doesn't need a plan though and can just pitch it all over the fence to Congress to sort out. Why anyone wants to vote for that I can't understand.
 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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  1. Sep 30, 16:47 Re: Gatherings & Competitions The Half Elf
  2. Sep 30, 19:32 Re: Gatherings & Competitions UnderLord
  3. Sep 30, 19:48  Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  4. Sep 30, 19:55  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  6. Sep 30, 21:03  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Cutter
  50. Oct 1, 13:11  Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  5. Sep 30, 20:23 Re: Gatherings & Competitions UnderLord
  7. Sep 30, 21:17  Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  8. Sep 30, 21:36   Re: Gatherings & Competitions UnderLord
  10. Sep 30, 22:03    Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  11. Sep 30, 22:17     Re: Gatherings & Competitions UnderLord
  33. Oct 1, 05:11    Re: Gatherings & Competitions yuastnav
  13. Sep 30, 22:50  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Fantaz
  14. Sep 30, 23:01   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Cutter
  15. Sep 30, 23:10    Re: Gatherings & Competitions Suckage
  16. Sep 30, 23:12    Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  9. Sep 30, 21:57 Re: Gatherings & Competitions deqer
  18. Oct 1, 00:25  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  34. Oct 1, 07:46   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  38. Oct 1, 10:38    Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  99. Oct 2, 13:02    Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  12. Sep 30, 22:43 Re: Gatherings & Competitions UnderLord
  17. Sep 30, 23:50 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Jivaro
  19. Oct 1, 00:35 Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  20. Oct 1, 01:10  Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  21. Oct 1, 01:40   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Fantaz
  30. Oct 1, 03:30    Re: Gatherings & Competitions Cutter
  22. Oct 1, 01:43   Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
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  25. Oct 1, 02:21    Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
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  29. Oct 1, 02:36      Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  31. Oct 1, 03:36       Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  163. Oct 3, 15:42   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  24. Oct 1, 01:59  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  26. Oct 1, 02:22   Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  28. Oct 1, 02:32    Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  32. Oct 1, 04:10    Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  35. Oct 1, 09:15 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  36. Oct 1, 09:39  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  37. Oct 1, 10:35  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  39. Oct 1, 10:53   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  40. Oct 1, 11:03   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  41. Oct 1, 11:25    Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  42. Oct 1, 11:38     Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  43. Oct 1, 11:39     Re: Gatherings & Competitions yuastnav
  44. Oct 1, 11:44      Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  45. Oct 1, 11:52       Re: Gatherings & Competitions yuastnav
  46. Oct 1, 12:01        Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  47. Oct 1, 12:15 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  51. Oct 1, 13:15  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  52. Oct 1, 13:22   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  53. Oct 1, 13:35    Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  54. Oct 1, 13:42     Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  55. Oct 1, 13:46      Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  56. Oct 1, 13:49       Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  59. Oct 1, 15:03        Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  60. Oct 1, 16:46        Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  61. Oct 1, 16:49         Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  64. Oct 1, 18:46          Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  66. Oct 1, 19:57           Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  68. Oct 1, 22:19            Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  70. Oct 1, 22:37             Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
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  77. Oct 1, 23:55                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  78. Oct 2, 00:25                  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  83. Oct 2, 10:16                  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  62. Oct 1, 16:59         Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  63. Oct 1, 18:28         Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  65. Oct 1, 19:38          Re: Gatherings & Competitions Jivaro
  67. Oct 1, 20:56           Re: Gatherings & Competitions Dades
  69. Oct 1, 22:33           Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  75. Oct 1, 23:38            removed netnerd85
  80. Oct 2, 08:56          Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  81. Oct 2, 09:09           Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  86. Oct 2, 11:38            Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  88. Oct 2, 11:55             Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  89. Oct 2, 11:58              Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  96. Oct 2, 12:41               Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  100. Oct 2, 13:03                Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  102. Oct 2, 13:22                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  105. Oct 2, 14:03                  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  106. Oct 2, 14:04                   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  110. Oct 2, 15:03                   Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  115. Oct 2, 15:40                    Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  93. Oct 2, 12:33              Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  95. Oct 2, 12:38               Re: Gatherings & Competitions yuastnav
  98. Oct 2, 13:01                Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  97. Oct 2, 12:58               Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  101. Oct 2, 13:14                Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  103. Oct 2, 13:40                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  120. Oct 2, 18:26             Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  121. Oct 2, 23:18              Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  124. Oct 3, 09:16               Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  125. Oct 3, 09:20                Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  126. Oct 3, 09:30                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  128. Oct 3, 09:41                Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  131. Oct 3, 09:54                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  161. Oct 3, 15:35                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  162. Oct 3, 15:42                  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  165. Oct 3, 15:52                   Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  167. Oct 3, 16:01                    Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  175. Oct 3, 16:18                   Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  179. Oct 3, 16:33                    Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  181. Oct 3, 16:43                     Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  186. Oct 3, 16:51                      Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  123. Oct 3, 09:04              Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  127. Oct 3, 09:30               Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  129. Oct 3, 09:49                Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  130. Oct 3, 09:53                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  133. Oct 3, 10:48                  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  135. Oct 3, 10:55                   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  136. Oct 3, 11:00                    Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  137. Oct 3, 11:03                     Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  138. Oct 3, 11:11                      Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  139. Oct 3, 11:13                       Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  141. Oct 3, 11:22                        Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  142. Oct 3, 11:35                         Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  143. Oct 3, 11:39                          Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  145. Oct 3, 11:52                           Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  147. Oct 3, 12:02                            Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  144. Oct 3, 11:43                         Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  146. Oct 3, 11:59                          Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  140. Oct 3, 11:17                      Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  149. Oct 3, 12:08                     Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  150. Oct 3, 12:25                      Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  164. Oct 3, 15:51                    Re: Gatherings & Competitions Draugr
  134. Oct 3, 10:49                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
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  154. Oct 3, 13:16                     removed RailWizard
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  157. Oct 3, 13:35                      Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  158. Oct 3, 13:46                       Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  159. Oct 3, 15:29                        Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
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  195. Oct 3, 17:25                               Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  196. Oct 3, 17:42                                Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  198. Oct 3, 19:44                                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  199. Oct 3, 23:17                                 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  201. Oct 4, 08:35                                  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  202. Oct 4, 09:35                                   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  210. Oct 4, 14:34                                    Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  211. Oct 4, 14:41                                     Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  213. Oct 4, 15:10                                      Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  203. Oct 4, 10:44                                   Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  204. Oct 4, 10:50                                   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
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  206. Oct 4, 11:48                                    Re: Gatherings & Competitions nin
  208. Oct 4, 12:35                                    Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
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  200. Oct 4, 07:00                               Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  174. Oct 3, 16:18                           Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  171. Oct 3, 16:14                          Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  176. Oct 3, 16:20                           Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  182. Oct 3, 16:45                            Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  184. Oct 3, 16:47                             Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  187. Oct 3, 16:51                              Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  160. Oct 3, 15:35                     Re: Gatherings & Competitions Draugr
  172. Oct 3, 16:15                      Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  153. Oct 3, 13:08                    removed D-Rock
  155. Oct 3, 13:20                     Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  197. Oct 3, 19:39                     Re: Gatherings & Competitions Bhruic
  132. Oct 3, 10:45                Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  57. Oct 1, 14:00      Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
  58. Oct 1, 14:54       Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  48. Oct 1, 12:30 Re: Gatherings & Competitions yuastnav
  49. Oct 1, 13:03  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
  71. Oct 1, 23:02 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Jivaro
  73. Oct 1, 23:25  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  79. Oct 2, 00:53 Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  82. Oct 2, 09:17  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  87. Oct 2, 11:50   Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  84. Oct 2, 11:09 Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  85. Oct 2, 11:12  Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
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  109. Oct 2, 14:46     Re: Gatherings & Competitions Beamer
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  94. Oct 2, 12:36   Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  92. Oct 2, 12:29 Re: Gatherings & Competitions yuastnav
  104. Oct 2, 13:55 Re: Gatherings & Competitions yuastnav
  107. Oct 2, 14:12  Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
  112. Oct 2, 15:23   Re: Gatherings & Competitions yuastnav
  122. Oct 3, 08:26 Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
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  183. Oct 3, 16:45  Re: Gatherings & Competitions D-Rock
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  191. Oct 3, 17:01    Re: Gatherings & Competitions Fantaz
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  190. Oct 3, 17:01   Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
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  212. Oct 4, 14:57  Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
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  215. Oct 4, 15:55    Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  216. Oct 4, 16:08     Re: Gatherings & Competitions Dades
  217. Oct 4, 22:11      Re: Gatherings & Competitions Wowbagger_TIP
  219. Oct 5, 10:44       Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  220. Oct 5, 11:11        Re: Gatherings & Competitions Verno
  222. Oct 5, 11:33         Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  223. Oct 5, 12:48          Re: Gatherings & Competitions Wowbagger_TIP
  224. Oct 5, 14:37           Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  225. Oct 5, 15:21            Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85
>> 226. Oct 6, 03:12            Re: Gatherings & Competitions Wowbagger_TIP
  227. Oct 6, 10:23             Re: Gatherings & Competitions RollinThundr
  218. Oct 5, 02:15      Re: Gatherings & Competitions RailWizard
  221. Oct 5, 11:17 Re: Gatherings & Competitions netnerd85


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