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Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt

A tweet by Minecraft creator Markus 'Notch' Persson relates an exchange with Microsoft about Windows 8 and the indie sandbox game: "Got an email from microsoft, wanting to help 'certify' minecraft for win 8. I told them to stop trying to ruin the pc as an open platform." He follows this expressing his distaste for the process and the new OS: "I'd rather have minecraft not run on win 8 at all than to play along. Maybe we can convince a few people not to switch to win 8 that way.." Thanks Computer and Video Games.

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99 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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79. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 19:18 Muscular Beaver
 
LOL! Awesome reply. I wish more people would have the balls or brains.  
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Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
- Mojo Jojo
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78. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 18:58 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 17:20:

I don't see much damage to the desktop because the mainstream coverage of WP8 is absolutely glowing.
Meh. The reviews from the mainstream press are about as trustworthy as greek bonds.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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77. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 18:32 Prez
 
People seem to want to badmouth Notch because they think he is trying to make himself the de factor champion of PC gaming when in truth he is just posting his thoughts on that godawful Twitter like everyone else. He just gets the press because of who he is. I don't like his game at all, but I more often than not agree with his viewpoints as they pertain to PC gaming. I certainly didn't need any convincing to not switch to Windows 8; I wouldn't even install it if they mailed me a free copy for every PC I own.
Dades wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 17:15:
Me thinks he doth protest too much.

LMAO!

This comment was edited on Sep 27, 2012, 19:37.
 
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Goodbye my Monte boy. May you rest in the peace you never knew in life.
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76. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 18:25 Dades
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 17:20:
Me?
I don't know what I'm protesting. iOS and Android suck for most things. It's nice to see someone trying to change that. The change is not convincing, and it may come at the expense of the desktop, but I've called this a hail mary in the past.

Protesting anything negative about Microsoft apparently. The change is not convincing because it's not a change, it's Microsoft parroting their competitors yet again and this time they're impeding desktop users in a misguided effort to force their way into a market.

I don't see much damage to the desktop because the mainstream coverage of WP8 is absolutely glowing

What little mainstream coverage I've seen has been neutral at best, iOS and Android grab all of the headlines.
 
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75. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 17:51 DukeFNukem
 
NoyzRulz wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 12:24:
I guess if you get lucky making a really crappy looking game and make a ton of money you get a soap box to stand on. If the game sold under 100,000 copies no one would listen. Oh wait, most of us aren't.

I guess you have been reading a different thread than I have. But I don't rely on celebrities to help me know whether I should purchase things or not. I made my decision NOT to purchase Windows 8 long ago.
 
Just because you aren't afraid of something doesn't it mean it can't kill you...
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74. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 17:43 DangerDog
 
I think most of us are reading this wrong, this form of certification is so that your program doesn't get red flagged by the new security features in windows 8, this is "certification" for the version that runs on your desktop and not a metro version.

edit:

PHJF wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 11:41:

"Certify minecraft for win8"?

What does this even mean?

It means Microsoft is trying to do with software what they did with drivers. Starting with Vista x64, the OS would not load device drivers that were not digitally signed by MS (which costs $). Presumably MS wants an OS that won't load software which isn't OK'd by them.

Presumably.

pretty sure it's about this, and I've read that you can turn this new "security feature" off in windows 8 but it'll then nag at you that your system is insecure with some sort of pop-up message.

This comment was edited on Sep 27, 2012, 17:49.
 
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73. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 17:20 Beamer
 
Dades wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 17:15:
Me thinks he doth protest too much.

Me?
I don't know what I'm protesting. iOS and Android suck for most things. It's nice to see someone trying to change that. The change is not convincing, and it may come at the expense of the desktop, but I've called this a hail mary in the past.

I don't see much damage to the desktop because the mainstream coverage of WP8 is absolutely glowing. The nerd reports hate it, but it's not being made for us and few of us will early adopt. Given how many people here are still on XP and mocking Windows 7, that was probably going to happen, anyway. I haven't bothered with any of the betas and have no plans to buy it. Let other people do what's essentially a beta test of a new UI.

And there's a chance the Surface will work out. The Pro sounds awesome, assuming I can dock it to a monitor, assuming it has decent battery life, and assuming it isn't as stupidly slow as my netbook was. Those are big assumptions and the reason I'm not holding my breath.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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72. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 17:15 Dades
 
Me thinks he doth protest too much.  
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71. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 17:05 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 17:01:
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 16:20:
Our company isn't alone - this has become extremely common in larger corporations.

Just because your corporation is doing it doesn't mean that it's become "extremely common." My corporation has basically given up on them, and I know guys in IT in over half a dozen other corporation, and apart from one where they've yet to give the okay to incorporate them into the IT structure (they're pretty tight about security due to the work they do), the others have similar stories to mine. They like them at first, then give them back when they realize they can't get any work done on them.

So my anecdotal evidence gainsays your anecdotal evidence. Unless you can come up with some actual numbers that say that corporate execs have largely flocked to tablets, that's all it will remain.


Surface Pro, being a full-fledged laptop in a smaller form factor, can change this. Hopefully the stylus issue is resolved, but more importantly they'll have access to the software they need. They'll be able to hook a mouse and keyboard up to it. It will be the only thing they'll need to travel. Rather than simply having a device to augment their laptop in meetings they'll actually have their laptop in meetings (something not really viable right now as you're then hiding behind a laptop.)
Will this work out? Who knows? We haven't seen anything but potential yet, but that potential is certainly far above what iPads are doing right now.

That's possible, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'd be quite surprised if MS suddenly manages to reinvent the wheel and make the perfect hybrid, but I guess the sun even shines on a dog's ass some days.

Creston


You can do a quick Google to see how many Fortune 500 companies have moved onto it.

My company isn't leading here - we're following.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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70. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 17:02 Beamer
 
Microsoft failed twice at getting into the cellphone/tablet market? By copying? When?

In the early 2000s they dominated the smartphone market.
In the early 2000s they were the only company creating tablets.

Yes, those tablets failed, but I wouldn't say WinMo failed. It was actually very successful. It just got unseated by iOS and Microsoft took forever to respond because they wanted to unify all their platforms.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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69. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 17:01 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 16:20:
Our company isn't alone - this has become extremely common in larger corporations.

Just because your corporation is doing it doesn't mean that it's become "extremely common." My corporation has basically given up on them, and I know guys in IT in over half a dozen other corporation, and apart from one where they've yet to give the okay to incorporate them into the IT structure (they're pretty tight about security due to the work they do), the others have similar stories to mine. They like them at first, then give them back when they realize they can't get any work done on them.

So my anecdotal evidence gainsays your anecdotal evidence. Unless you can come up with some actual numbers that say that corporate execs have largely flocked to tablets, that's all it will remain.


Surface Pro, being a full-fledged laptop in a smaller form factor, can change this. Hopefully the stylus issue is resolved, but more importantly they'll have access to the software they need. They'll be able to hook a mouse and keyboard up to it. It will be the only thing they'll need to travel. Rather than simply having a device to augment their laptop in meetings they'll actually have their laptop in meetings (something not really viable right now as you're then hiding behind a laptop.)
Will this work out? Who knows? We haven't seen anything but potential yet, but that potential is certainly far above what iPads are doing right now.

That's possible, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'd be quite surprised if MS suddenly manages to reinvent the wheel and make the perfect hybrid, but I guess the sun even shines on a dog's ass some days.

Creston
 
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68. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 16:56 Eirikrautha
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 16:20:
Creston wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 16:05:
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 15:26:
Actually, tablets are the reason that corporations have to move to Windows 8. By this point most executives are carrying around tablets, but they can't do most of what they need to on them.

Behold: Surface Pro.



Do you even WORK in a corporation? Most corporations have their execs try out tablets, and get rid of them again in a few weeks because they can't get any serious work done on them.

Every single one of our execs wanted an iPad 2. Every single one of our execs has turned it back in, save one (who just gives it to his kid anyway) and have gone back to laptops.

Nobody who does any serious amount of work can get said work done on a tablet. A tablet is a toy, not a device to work 10 hours a day on.

Creston

Beamer wrote on Apr 24, 2012, 07:39:

iPads aren't quite there yet, to me actually really far, but I've never once met a person that thinks it can replace a computer. Not in real life. I've only met people that think they can be used for media consumption (which is how I use mine) or note taking (which is how everyone in my office tries to use theirs, though most people make it no more than two weeks before giving up.)

And that's me being more polite. The week before the iPad came out my boss at the time got his hands on one. He described it to me as the best note-taking device in the world. He then complained about it not having an arrow-up key, complained about a few other things, then said it needed an external keyboard. Best note-taking device my ass.

Much more recently, every damn exec at my current job bought an iPad some time in 2011. You'd see the stupid thing at every meeting the first week, a few meetings the second week, then never again.

But a funny thing happened - the company started giving them to executives. And it started "going green," meaning no more paper handouts at meetings. Execs were forced to bring their now-free ipads to meetings to read along with the discussion materials. And they started finding more uses for them. After a few weeks of being forced they were dependent. Our company isn't alone - this has become extremely common in larger corporations.

The thing is - iPads suck at this. You can't mark up the document you're following along with. You can barely even take notes, especially not without a stylus.

Surface Pro, being a full-fledged laptop in a smaller form factor, can change this. Hopefully the stylus issue is resolved, but more importantly they'll have access to the software they need. They'll be able to hook a mouse and keyboard up to it. It will be the only thing they'll need to travel. Rather than simply having a device to augment their laptop in meetings they'll actually have their laptop in meetings (something not really viable right now as you're then hiding behind a laptop.)
Will this work out? Who knows? We haven't seen anything but potential yet, but that potential is certainly far above what iPads are doing right now.

You're right about this (I've seen it in my industry as well). But it actually provides the evidence that defeats your earlier point about Microsoft's "rationality."

Microsoft has always had a very strong reactionary streak to them. Whatever they have innovated, they have copied twice as much to make up for it. The reality of this situation is that Microsoft has tried twice to get into the cellphone/tablet market and have failed both times (from an economic standpoint). So Win8 is their reaction to this.

Microsoft is attempting to create a tablet OS that is scalable and full-featured, for corporate customers who need to do work on them (and not just play Temple Run). While this is a very good idea, they have drawn the line at favoring the tablet aspects over the desktop aspects, hoping that will increase the desirability of the product. They have already forced compromises on the business users for the sake of the tablet market (Booting to Metro being the most obvious, but not the only one)!!!

You are absolutely right that this is about tablets. But that same argument shows that Microsoft is willing to gently shaft its business users (whoever posted the boiling frog analogy upthread is spot on) to react to what it sees as market trends. Just because a Microsoft exec tries to be "rational" doesn't mean he'll succeed...
 
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67. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 16:53 Mashiki Amiketo
 
By the way, anyone who's going to get stuck using Win8 like me and wants to have a start menu and likes Start8

promocode time: WK4-MYLR-QLXP-BOOW

I think it's only good for a day or two, but it'll knock 20% off.
 
--
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there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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66. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 16:45 Dades
 
Surface will suck like Microsofts other 20 mobile efforts, Windows 8 would be fine if they would let people turn off Metro but they want everything like their shitty Xbox. If Microsoft gets its way then you'll all be installing locked down, shitty iOS style apps from their stupid store while they slowly gut the supported devices and pare down until RT/ARM is all thats left standing.  
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65. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 16:20 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 16:05:
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 15:26:
Actually, tablets are the reason that corporations have to move to Windows 8. By this point most executives are carrying around tablets, but they can't do most of what they need to on them.

Behold: Surface Pro.



Do you even WORK in a corporation? Most corporations have their execs try out tablets, and get rid of them again in a few weeks because they can't get any serious work done on them.

Every single one of our execs wanted an iPad 2. Every single one of our execs has turned it back in, save one (who just gives it to his kid anyway) and have gone back to laptops.

Nobody who does any serious amount of work can get said work done on a tablet. A tablet is a toy, not a device to work 10 hours a day on.

Creston

Beamer wrote on Apr 24, 2012, 07:39:

iPads aren't quite there yet, to me actually really far, but I've never once met a person that thinks it can replace a computer. Not in real life. I've only met people that think they can be used for media consumption (which is how I use mine) or note taking (which is how everyone in my office tries to use theirs, though most people make it no more than two weeks before giving up.)

And that's me being more polite. The week before the iPad came out my boss at the time got his hands on one. He described it to me as the best note-taking device in the world. He then complained about it not having an arrow-up key, complained about a few other things, then said it needed an external keyboard. Best note-taking device my ass.

Much more recently, every damn exec at my current job bought an iPad some time in 2011. You'd see the stupid thing at every meeting the first week, a few meetings the second week, then never again.

But a funny thing happened - the company started giving them to executives. And it started "going green," meaning no more paper handouts at meetings. Execs were forced to bring their now-free ipads to meetings to read along with the discussion materials. And they started finding more uses for them. After a few weeks of being forced they were dependent. Our company isn't alone - this has become extremely common in larger corporations.

The thing is - iPads suck at this. You can't mark up the document you're following along with. You can barely even take notes, especially not without a stylus.

Surface Pro, being a full-fledged laptop in a smaller form factor, can change this. Hopefully the stylus issue is resolved, but more importantly they'll have access to the software they need. They'll be able to hook a mouse and keyboard up to it. It will be the only thing they'll need to travel. Rather than simply having a device to augment their laptop in meetings they'll actually have their laptop in meetings (something not really viable right now as you're then hiding behind a laptop.)
Will this work out? Who knows? We haven't seen anything but potential yet, but that potential is certainly far above what iPads are doing right now.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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64. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 16:10 Dev
 
ASeven wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 14:02:
Corporations, the biggest Windows customer share, have absolutely NO reason to move to Win8. No reason whatsoever. Who cares if reviews and blind to reality analysts think? Sales are what matter.
You are missing something. Those same corps will end up with a ton of win 8 licenses from buying computers. Most of corp VL from MS are "upgrade" ones that require an existing full license, i.e. the win 8 one that came with the computer. Also, most of the time when you get VL from MS its for the current version of windows (which will be win 8), but they give you downgrade rights and old version keys. So they will get most of the corp sales regardless, even if the corp adoption rate is low.

And you can bet they will count those as windows 8 sales when they post how its the fastest selling windows yet.
 
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63. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 16:05 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 15:26:
Actually, tablets are the reason that corporations have to move to Windows 8. By this point most executives are carrying around tablets, but they can't do most of what they need to on them.

Behold: Surface Pro.



Do you even WORK in a corporation? Most corporations have their execs try out tablets, and get rid of them again in a few weeks because they can't get any serious work done on them.

Every single one of our execs wanted an iPad 2. Every single one of our execs has turned it back in, save one (who just gives it to his kid anyway) and have gone back to laptops.

Nobody who does any serious amount of work can get said work done on a tablet. A tablet is a toy, not a device to work 10 hours a day on.

Creston
 
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62. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 16:00 Dev
 
ASeven wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 15:56:
Win8 has to prove it can do a lot more and a lot better than both those OSs and I doubt pretty much it can.
Yes but thats not all that relevant. MS is doing this since they think they can.
This comment was edited on Sep 27, 2012, 16:10.
 
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61. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 15:56 ASeven
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 15:26:

Actually, tablets are the reason that corporations have to move to Windows 8. By this point most executives are carrying around tablets, but they can't do most of what they need to on them.

Behold: Surface Pro.

Remember, iOS and Android tablets have been around for longer and have established themselves pretty much firmly. Win8 tablets are a new player on the market but most people are already happy with Android or iOS since it does all tablet users need to do. Win8 has to prove it can do a lot more and a lot better than both those OSs and I doubt pretty much it can.
 
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60. Re: Notch Knocks Win8: Minecraft Certification in Doubt Sep 27, 2012, 15:42 Beamer
 
DangerDog wrote on Sep 27, 2012, 15:27:
But it's okay to put minecraft on closed console platforms like xbox360?

I support his decision but I'm not going to pat him on the back just yet.

Yeah, because it was always a closed platform, so it's status quo.
Plus it's a lesser version of Minecraft, in that it's updated less often (big deal) and not open to mods (lesser deal, but I'd guess Minecraft has a larger percentage of users that mod than most other games.)
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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