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Op Ed

Destructoid - Publishers accused of trying to exploit Kickstarter.
"We were actually contacted by some publishers over the last few months that wanted to use us to do a Kickstarter," he revealed on his team's own KS page. "I said to them 'So, you want us to do a Kickstarter for, using our name, we then get the Kickstarter money to make the game, you then publish the game, but we then don't get to keep the brand we make and we only get a portion of the profits.'

"They said, 'Yes'."

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37 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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37. Re: [CLASSIFIED] times and counting Sep 21, 2012, 12:35 Mordecai Walfish
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 21, 2012, 08:17:
space captain wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 21:47:
Quboid wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 20:58:
space captain wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 20:15:
yeh, more predictions from the pachter-wannabe "oracles", huh

it may be a better idea to talk to people who are actually experienced in many instances of a certain activity... rather than listen to hypothetical bullshit from spectators and armchair heroes that only have their daydreams and fantasies to rely on

Honestly, if you want to troll, you will have to be much more coherent. I genuinely don't know what you're talking about; I only get the gist enough to know you're attempting to insult ... someone. Destructoid? KickStarter? Blue? Us?


well honestly you have no fucking clue what im doing, and i dont have the desire to explain it to you, even if you were able to understand, which you arent

but the post below was directed at my main man Julio.. and anyone else who thinks their armchair "XP" entitles them to speak as if they are experts on any given topic... so.. if the shoe fits, then wear it SON

im having fun posting whatever i please, just like you

so honestly, dont worry about what im doing - worry about what you are doing.. unless you want another big serving of "fuck off".. and i cant blame you if you do, since im just so irresistible to interact with

Daaaaamn, I got told!

(I think.)

Time to let the lonely troll be lonely. Hopefully his mom still comes over once and a while to cook him a packet of ramen.. lol
 
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36. Re: [CLASSIFIED] times and counting Sep 21, 2012, 08:17 Quboid
 
space captain wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 21:47:
Quboid wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 20:58:
space captain wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 20:15:
yeh, more predictions from the pachter-wannabe "oracles", huh

it may be a better idea to talk to people who are actually experienced in many instances of a certain activity... rather than listen to hypothetical bullshit from spectators and armchair heroes that only have their daydreams and fantasies to rely on

Honestly, if you want to troll, you will have to be much more coherent. I genuinely don't know what you're talking about; I only get the gist enough to know you're attempting to insult ... someone. Destructoid? KickStarter? Blue? Us?


well honestly you have no fucking clue what im doing, and i dont have the desire to explain it to you, even if you were able to understand, which you arent

but the post below was directed at my main man Julio.. and anyone else who thinks their armchair "XP" entitles them to speak as if they are experts on any given topic... so.. if the shoe fits, then wear it SON

im having fun posting whatever i please, just like you

so honestly, dont worry about what im doing - worry about what you are doing.. unless you want another big serving of "fuck off".. and i cant blame you if you do, since im just so irresistible to interact with

Daaaaamn, I got told!

(I think.)
 
Avatar 10439
 
- Quboid
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35. Re: [CLASSIFIED] times and counting Sep 21, 2012, 06:46 Golwar
 
mag wrote on Sep 21, 2012, 01:25:
What?

He certified that, what we all knew well enough, it is true from his point of view too: He isn't worth any attention.
Move on folks.
 
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34. Re: [CLASSIFIED] times and counting Sep 21, 2012, 01:25 mag
 
space captain wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 21:47:
Stuff

What?

This comment was edited on Sep 21, 2012, 23:31.
 
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33. Re: [CLASSIFIED] times and counting Sep 20, 2012, 21:47 space captain
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 20:58:
space captain wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 20:15:
yeh, more predictions from the pachter-wannabe "oracles", huh

it may be a better idea to talk to people who are actually experienced in many instances of a certain activity... rather than listen to hypothetical bullshit from spectators and armchair heroes that only have their daydreams and fantasies to rely on

Honestly, if you want to troll, you will have to be much more coherent. I genuinely don't know what you're talking about; I only get the gist enough to know you're attempting to insult ... someone. Destructoid? KickStarter? Blue? Us?


well honestly you have no fucking clue what im doing, and i dont have the desire to explain it to you, even if you were able to understand, which you arent

but the post below was directed at my main man Julio.. and anyone else who thinks their armchair "XP" entitles them to speak as if they are experts on any given topic... so.. if the shoe fits, then wear it SON

im having fun posting whatever i please, just like you

so honestly, dont worry about what im doing - worry about what you are doing.. unless you want another big serving of "fuck off".. and i cant blame you if you do, since im just so irresistible to interact with
 
Go forth, and kill!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
32. Re: [CLASSIFIED] times and counting Sep 20, 2012, 20:58 Quboid
 
space captain wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 20:15:
yeh, more predictions from the pachter-wannabe "oracles", huh

it may be a better idea to talk to people who are actually experienced in many instances of a certain activity... rather than listen to hypothetical bullshit from spectators and armchair heroes that only have their daydreams and fantasies to rely on

Honestly, if you want to troll, you will have to be much more coherent. I genuinely don't know what you're talking about; I only get the gist enough to know you're attempting to insult ... someone. Destructoid? KickStarter? Blue? Us?
 
Avatar 10439
 
- Quboid
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31. [CLASSIFIED] times and counting Sep 20, 2012, 20:15 space captain
 
yeh, more predictions from the pachter-wannabe "oracles", huh

it may be a better idea to talk to people who are actually experienced in many instances of a certain activity... rather than listen to hypothetical bullshit from spectators and armchair heroes that only have their daydreams and fantasies to rely on
 
Go forth, and kill!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
30. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 20:11 Quboid
 
Julio wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 17:32:
A developer using Kickstarter can get away with this once, then they're not going to get crowd funded nearly as much. Why give up their credibility for a one-time publisher deal.

Because one time is better than none. Because they can dissolve the tainted studio and form another one and 99% of gamers won't know or care that it's the same people.
 
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- Quboid
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29. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 17:32 Julio
 
A developer using Kickstarter can get away with this once, then they're not going to get crowd funded nearly as much. Why give up their credibility for a one-time publisher deal.  
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28. removed Sep 20, 2012, 17:18 space captain
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Sep 21, 2012, 08:22.
 
Go forth, and kill!
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27. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 16:32 Dev
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 16:09:
If some publisher goes to a dev, "Pitch your game on KS, and if you make $1m, we'll kick in the $4m more you need to finish it, but then we get to keep it." I think some devs might do that, since that's food on the table. And that would happen only between the very top people, so could the rank and file being totally in the dark about it.
Only until the game is released then everyone can see the publisher logo/stamp on it.
 
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26. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 16:09 jdreyer
 
Flatline wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 13:03:
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 12:37:
Reread the news again

I read it like 8 times and it was kind of foggy.

It looked like Publisher was telling Dev to start a kickstarter using Dev's name, gather the money up, make a game, then in exchange for publishing/advertising, Publisher gets to keep the IP and pays royalties to the dev.

Which sounds about as appealing as a shit sandwich.

But I could see this being tempting for a lot of devs. For many games, Kickstarter simply does not provide enough funds. A game with a scope like Planetary Annihilation is going to cost more than $2m to make. That money has to come from somewhere.

If some publisher goes to a dev, "Pitch your game on KS, and if you make $1m, we'll kick in the $4m more you need to finish it, but then we get to keep it." I think some devs might do that, since that's food on the table. And that would happen only between the very top people, so could the rank and file being totally in the dark about it. The only reason we found out about this is that Feargus is principled, independent, and successful already, so he can tell a publisher to fck off.
 
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"It's just a bunch of mystic bovine scatology to me." - 1badmf
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25. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 16:07 Bhruic
 
Quboid wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 15:16:
Bhruic wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 14:21:
I've read that a bunch of times and I still can't figure out exactly what the publishers are offering. Are they basically offering developers the option to "double dip"? Ie, they do a kickstarter, get financed from that, but then the publisher pays to make the game anyway?

I think it's a very poorly written article and the claim of "free" has to be wrong, almost by definition - if the publisher doesn't spend any money, why involve them at all? Distribution and marketing expertise perhaps? I can't believe that they could expect to own the brand if that's all they bring. I would guess that a large part of the budget would still be needed from the publisher.

Right, that's kinda what I was thinking. If the publisher wanted to simply be a distributer, there's absolutely no incentive for the developer to grant them any favours. If the publisher is expecting to get the game rights and the majority of the profits, they have to be kicking in a something substantial - which would almost have to be money. But if the developer does a successful kickstart, what do they need the money for?

Unless they are doing one of those "try and get publisher's attentions" type kickstarts. But if the publisher is already interested and talking to them, that would seem redundant. I dunno, it'd be nice if Obsidian would clarify exactly what the offer was - I don't care about the "who" so much, as they are all almost equally bad these days.
 
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24. Re: More Big Picture Details Sep 20, 2012, 15:36 HorrorScope
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 11:54:
"why should we put ourselves under your dictatorship if we could try our luck freelancing a game from start to finish"...

Bingo.

The suits have no skills, but they make the most money. Stop the mofo insanity and give credit ($) where IT IS DUE! They are leaches with the gift of gab(bs). They know little.
 
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23. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 15:30 Draugr
 
Ruffiana wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 14:22:
Apart from the 'keeping the brand' part, what's the big deal? Kickstarting money won't publish, market, distribute, and do all of the behind the scenes wheeling and dealing to get a boxed game on the shelf of Walmarts and GameStops of the world. There's still unarguably a market for boxed games. There's a market, money to be made, and for all of the shitty things that publishers have done to the game industry, knowing how to make money with a complete game ready to go into a box and be sold is not one of the problems.

Asking for a portion of the profits from those sales isn't unreasonable. It's still a huge investment of time and resources to publish a finished game.

Demanding onwership of the IP to publish a game you haven't paid to develop is pretty greedy. That's an entrenched mindset from decades of an established business model where the publisher is fronting and advance so a game can be made in the first place.

Stupidly short-sighted, greedy, slow to adapt...but not malicously evil.

Yeah. Offloading risk directly onto the customer and developer with none yourself, and then acquiring the fruits of their labor, what's malicious about that!?

There is this new thing called digital distribution, most Kickstarters (beyond rewards) forgo physical copies of their games altogether. If you're making a PC game (as obsidian is in this case) you're cutting yourself out of a very small margin of the market by going digital only, and arguably you might be able to net more profit due to no cost associated with publishing of that manner. This applies to many platforms, and there on all these platforms there are digital-only titles that are quite successful. They don't need EA/Activision/Whoever to get the job done, and there are plenty of titles that exist and prove that point.
 
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22. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 15:16 Quboid
 
Bhruic wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 14:21:
I've read that a bunch of times and I still can't figure out exactly what the publishers are offering. Are they basically offering developers the option to "double dip"? Ie, they do a kickstarter, get financed from that, but then the publisher pays to make the game anyway?

I think it's a very poorly written article and the claim of "free" has to be wrong, almost by definition - if the publisher doesn't spend any money, why involve them at all? Distribution and marketing expertise perhaps? I can't believe that they could expect to own the brand if that's all they bring. I would guess that a large part of the budget would still be needed from the publisher.

Flatline, I think eRe4s3r was talking to Bill Borre.
 
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- Quboid
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21. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 15:11 Quboid
 
nin wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 15:05:
There's still unarguably a market for boxed games.

I can't tell you the last boxed game I bought. It's literally been years.


That doesn't mean others don't.

I'm sure there is still a market for boxed games, particularly in parts of the world with slower internet access. However, I doubt this market is worth selling your soul to a publisher for. Twice the sales isn't worth it if it means someone else getting 80% of the profits and owning the IP. (Note: figures made up to illustrate my point).
 
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- Quboid
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20. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 15:05 nin
 
There's still unarguably a market for boxed games.

I can't tell you the last boxed game I bought. It's literally been years.

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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19. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 14:34 Silicon Avatar
 
Ruffiana wrote on Sep 20, 2012, 14:22:
Apart from the 'keeping the brand' part, what's the big deal? Kickstarting money won't publish, market, distribute, and do all of the behind the scenes wheeling and dealing to get a boxed game on the shelf of Walmarts and GameStops of the world. There's still unarguably a market for boxed games. Asking for a portion of the profits from those sales isn't unreasonable.

Demanding onwership of the IP to publish a game you haven't paid to develop is pretty greedy.

You miss the point of Kickstarter.


 
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18. Re: Op Ed Sep 20, 2012, 14:22 Ruffiana
 
Apart from the 'keeping the brand' part, what's the big deal? Kickstarting money won't publish, market, distribute, and do all of the behind the scenes wheeling and dealing to get a boxed game on the shelf of Walmarts and GameStops of the world. There's still unarguably a market for boxed games. There's a market, money to be made, and for all of the shitty things that publishers have done to the game industry, knowing how to make money with a complete game ready to go into a box and be sold is not one of the problems.

Asking for a portion of the profits from those sales isn't unreasonable. It's still a huge investment of time and resources to publish a finished game.

Demanding onwership of the IP to publish a game you haven't paid to develop is pretty greedy. That's an entrenched mindset from decades of an established business model where the publisher is fronting and advance so a game can be made in the first place.

Stupidly short-sighted, greedy, slow to adapt...but not malicously evil.

This comment was edited on Sep 20, 2012, 14:34.
 
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37 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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