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23. Re: Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 18, 2012, 00:25 hb3d
 
Creston wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 15:22:
Have either Google or Amazon said they will allow Ouya to link to their app market? Because if not, Ouya will have exactly zero apps available on launch.
I don't know, but I don't see why not. Amazon's Android store is pretty open. I have purchased and installed apps from it using Bluestacks which isn't a real Android device. Google Play has a long list of supported devices here. I don't see why the Ouya wouldn't be added when it is released.

This comment was edited on Sep 18, 2012, 00:32.
 
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22. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 18, 2012, 00:17 hb3d
 
Verno wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 11:36:
That's not a reason it will come to market and in the timeframe given.
Yes, it certainly is a reason for it to come to market in the timeframe given because the people behind Ouya were prepared to come to market with much less money in that same timeframe. Getting so much more money than they needed for their original plans may delay the product if they change the scope of their plans, but if the plans for the product don't change, the additional money most certainly does help push things to market more easily if the money is spent on additional people and resources.

You can keep blaming people but Ouya set the expectations as has been explained several times.
As I explained, Ouya didn't set expectations unreasonably high. It was people like you who misinterpreted what the product actually would be that are expecting too much, i.e. a real proprietary game console versus a cheap Android PC-on-a-stick type device with an associated Android marketplace website which will supplement Google Play and other popular Android storefronts.

I still see their timeframe and cost structure as very tight and pointing to other hardware doesn't alleviate that.
My pointing to other shipping hardware proves that it can be done in the timeframe so long as the scope of the product isn't changed from the original idea/designs. If it is an Android pc-on-a-stick in a cheap plastic cube case with a $20 gamepad, it should be ready in time. If the Ouya principals decide to take their nine million dollars and come up with something fancier or more original, then it may not.

I never said it was insurmountable, I said it's a sticking concern because again, that's just trusting in these things to happen on their own. I'm not convinced Android STB adoption in general is on enough of a rise to get developers (many already iffy on Android vs iOS development) to do it.
What you continue to fail to grasp is that developers don't need to do anything to make their games support a gamepad if Ouya includes a translation shim like PC Android emulators such as Bluestacks do. Dedicated gamepad support in every game would be best, but it isn't necessary. Plus the Ouya controller is supposed to have touch support of some kind and will no doubt have a gyroscope too since there are cheap Android controllers/remotes for less than $30 that already have that. That will also make it compatible with existing game controls.

They've got their work cut out for them, 6 months and ticking.
All of that doesn't have to be all done in six months. Basic Google Play and other Android store support would be sufficient for a start with a list of supported/tested compatible titles.

I'd love to see it succeed but I'm dubious for several legitimate reasons.
As I have explained your reasons aren't legitimate because they are overblown concerns rooted in unrealistic expectations. In addition success is a relative term. There is no way the initial product and service is going to live up to the hype because people are expecting too much, e.g. an XBOX and XBOX Live for $99. I think Ouya will be successful relative to other cheap Android pc-on-a-stick's since it has a sizable potential target market (gaming enthusiasts) in the same way that the Raspberry PI is a success with the hardware hacker crowd.

This comment was edited on Sep 18, 2012, 01:08.
 
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21. Re: Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 6, 2012, 15:22 Creston
 
hb3d wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 10:21:
It's going to be a small, cheap Android PC with a targeted website with features Android games like what you can already get at Google Play and Amazon's Android marketplace that isn't fundamentally different than any other Android PC like the Chinese one to which I linked below.

Have either Google or Amazon said they will allow Ouya to link to their app market? Because if not, Ouya will have exactly zero apps available on launch...

Creston
 
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20. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 6, 2012, 11:36 Verno
 
First, that's eight million dollars more than they think they needed.

That's not a reason it will come to market and in the timeframe given.

I'm not optimistic that Ouya will be a success according to everyone's unrealistic expectations. I know that it won't be because it can't be. They are just too high. I am simply optimistic that the company will ship a cheap Android box and controller as I have described in this thread with a website to download Android games or a tie-in to an existing Android marketplace. It's won't be a scam in that respect.

You can keep blaming people but Ouya set the expectations as has been explained several times. I still see their timeframe and cost structure as very tight and pointing to other hardware doesn't alleviate that.

There are more. I just selected a high profile example.

There will need to be many, many more to support their business model.

All you have to do is remap the controls for most games. This isn't rocket-science where the game has to be redesigned to accomodate it. All or most of the many console-style racing, arcade, and shooter games for Android could be played with a gamepad. An external shim could even be built to allow such remapping without having access to the game code at all.

I never said it was insurmountable, I said it's a sticking concern because again, that's just trusting in these things to happen on their own. I'm not convinced Android STB adoption in general is on enough of a rise to get developers (many already iffy on Android vs iOS development) to do it.

I expect what they will do is try to sign as many independent Android game developers as they can to offer their games through the Ouya website just like the indie bundle people on the PC do it.

They've got their work cut out for them, 6 months and ticking.

blah blah expectations etc

As repeatedly mentioned, expectations set by Ouya. I don't have time to keep doing this line by line debate with you so we'll agree to disagree and hope that people aren't disappointed in 6 months time. I'd love to see it succeed but I'm dubious for several legitimate reasons.
 
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19. Re: Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 6, 2012, 11:03 hb3d
 
Verno wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 10:48:
9 million dollars is for the whole project, not just one aspect of it. Payroll, their initial buy-in with a manufacturer, marketing, website development, platform development, everything.
First, that's eight million dollars more than they think they needed. Second, some of those things simply aren't necessary or can be done on the cheap. For example right now the company has all of the marketing it needs for free.

People have done more with less and less with more, I'm not as optimistic about it as you are apparently but time will tell.
I'm not optimistic that Ouya will be a success according to everyone's unrealistic expectations. I know that it won't be because it can't be. They are just too high. I am simply optimistic that the company will ship a cheap Android box and controller as I have described in this thread with a website to download Android games or a tie-in to an existing Android marketplace. It's won't be a scam in that respect.

Naming one game does not invalidate my point.
There are more. I just selected a high profile example.

Most Android games are built for touchscreen controls, not gamepads.
All you have to do is remap the controls for most games. This isn't rocket-science where the game has to be redesigned to accomodate it. All or most of the many console-style racing, arcade, and shooter games for Android could be played with a gamepad. An external shim could even be built to allow such remapping without having access to the game code at all. Such shims already exist on the PC to use gamepad for games which don't natively support them. I have played plenty of Android games on the PC right now using Bluestacks, so I know that this works.

Compatibility is not all they need
Compatibility with Google Play and Amazon Marketplace is all they need to have a catalog of games to be successful. If the box has a Tegra 3 in it, it will have the power to run everything that is out right now. As long as the box is recognized as a Android device on Google Play and Amazon, there will be plenty of games for it.

Anyways as I've illustrated, people are skeptical for several legitimate reasons
Most of the people aren't skeptical for legitimate reasons. They are skeptical for unrealistic expectations. As I have demonstrated so long as you don't mistakenly believe Ouya is going to be a traditional game console, you won't be disappointed.

I'm assuming their plan is to profit from game sales like a traditional console so that's again an area where I'm left wondering how they'll be sustainable.
I expect what they will do is try to sign as many independent Android game developers as they can to offer their games through the Ouya website just like the indie bundle people on the PC do it. And, as a backup they will probably also resell Google Play and/or Amazon Marketplace games through their website to get a small piece of that action. I also expect that they will get a cut of the free-to-play microtransactions from the games they offer.

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 2012, 11:20.
 
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18. Re: Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 6, 2012, 10:48 Verno
 
hb3d wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 10:41:
Throwing up a website to buy and download Android game files is not that complicated. All of those various indie game bundle websites for the PC and Android games have proven that, and done it with a lot less than nine million dollars.

9 million dollars is for the whole project, not just one aspect of it. Payroll, their initial buy-in with a manufacturer, marketing, website development, platform development, everything. People have done more with less and less with more, I'm not as optimistic about it as you are apparently but time will tell.

The Ouya is most likely going to run standard Android games and be Google Play and Amazon Marketplace compatible which is all you need. The Ouya website might have a selection of featured Android titles that are guaranteed to be compatible with the box, but so long as users can buy and play games from Google Play and Amazon marketplace, that is all the games that users would ever need.

Naming one game does not invalidate my point. Most Android games are built for touchscreen controls, not gamepads. The support exists but it remains to be seen how widespread this becomes which is a sticking point for a platform that uses controller input primarily.

Compatibility is not all they need, particularly when they have themselves driven expectations beyond that.


Your comments in this thread make them pretty clear.

The thing about assumptions..

It's not going to be an emulator

I'm talking about how most of its target audience will likely use it after discovering a dearth of games they expect.

Anyways as I've illustrated, people are skeptical for several legitimate reasons, it's not just a matter of thinking they can't deliver the hardware alone. Although with the controller hardware factored in, someone had priced out the cost of the parts with a modest manufacturer discount at just under what they sold it to Kickstarters for. I'm assuming their plan is to profit from game sales like a traditional console so that's again an area where I'm left wondering how they'll be sustainable.

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 2012, 10:56.
 
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17. Re: Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 6, 2012, 10:41 hb3d
 
Verno wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 10:30:
Android itself is "hackable" yes but they were talking about their own distribution platform.
Throwing up a website to buy and download Android game files is not that complicated. All of those various indie game bundle websites for the PC and Android games have proven that and done it with a lot less than nine million dollars.

People want to know what is going to be on there, not what is possible.
The Ouya is most likely going to run standard Android games and be Google Play and Amazon Marketplace compatible which is all you need. The Ouya website might have a selection of featured Android titles that are guaranteed to be compatible with the box, but so long as users can buy and play games from Google Play and Amazon marketplace, that is all the games that users would ever need.

Android itself just received basic controller support, there aren't many applications that will take advantage of it.
The game Riptide GP is a great example of an Android game which has been out for a while, and that has standard gamepad support. I've bought the game from Amazon and played in on the PC with Bluestacks so I know that it works.

You have no idea what my personal expectations are so
Your comments in this thread make your expectations pretty clear.

Although when you use language like "revolutionize the console industry" it is not difficult to see why people might have some expectations of something other than a very basic emulator box that might be able to play some Android games in the future.
It's not going to be an emulator. It's going to be a cheap Android PC natively running the Android OS not unlike all of the other cheap Android PC-on-a-stick's that you can get from China right now.

Has the company overhyped the thing? Of course it has, but it wouldn't have gotten eight million dollars more than what it was asking for if it hadn't.

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 2012, 10:48.
 
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16. Re: Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 6, 2012, 10:30 Verno
 
hb3d wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 10:21:
The Android SDK already is platform software and as open source is certainly hackable.

Android itself is "hackable" yes but they were talking about their own distribution platform. It is certainly possible to build a store front or even custom "market" in that timeframe but combined with the other aspects of the project I don't see it as realistic.

Major publishers like EA already develop games for the Android ecosystem. The Ouya will be no different from that in terms of piracy or anything else.

That's the kind of language that got people skeptical. They had plastered their Kickstarter page with quotes like "Games like Call of Duty!" even though there are no such plans. People want to know what is going to be on there, not what is possible. So far the biggest news is a $15 port of an old FF game, not even a popular one at that. Android itself just received basic controller support, there aren't many applications that will take advantage of it.

I do. It simply won't be what you personally expect.

You have no idea what my personal expectations are so Clown

Although when you use language like "revolutionize the console industry" it is not difficult to see why people might have some expectations of something other than a very basic emulator box that might be able to play some Android games in the future.
 
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15. Re: Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 6, 2012, 10:21 hb3d
 
Verno wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 09:36:
the lack of any platform software so far. They want to sell a box with a hackable software platform. Laudable but not terribly realistic.
The Android SDK already is platform software and as open source is certainly hackable. The Ouya doesn't need to have any special SDK other than what game developers are already using to build Android games. Ouya will just be another Tegra 3-based target in the Android ecosystem like the ones that already exist. This is not going to be an XBOX, a Playstation, or a Wii which needs proprietary tools despite what your expectations might think.

Publishers are going to run screaming from an open STB, particularly when its installed base is going to be less than 60k and the potential for piracy is massive.
Major publishers like EA already develop games for the Android ecosystem. Gameloft already makes a bunch of console-type racing games and shooters for Android. The Ouya will be no different from that in terms of piracy or anything else.

I just don't see them building all of this in 6 months with 9 million dollars.
I do. It simply won't be what you personally expect. It's going to be a small, cheap Android PC with a targeted website with features Android games like what you can already get at Google Play and Amazon's Android marketplace that isn't fundamentally different than any other Android PC like the Chinese one to which I linked below.

Ouya is probably going to end up being a lot like Bluestacks: just another Android marketplace but instead of a PC emulator customers buy a cheap $100 box to run the games.

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 2012, 11:33.
 
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14. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 6, 2012, 10:09 HorrorScope
 
Until now I just assumed one giving money to Kickstarter was like buying stocks, risky. If the project failed there is no refund, your investment failed. How can you ask for money back that they needed to do a project, that they used for months/years? Hw can one expect all the money gathered is still available? If it was, then they didn't even need the money.

There have been so many games kickstarted there will be failures. And then there is the human nature of plain ole fraud.
 
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13. Re: Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 6, 2012, 09:36 Verno
 
hb3d wrote on Sep 6, 2012, 00:22:
While I would never give money to pre-purchase an Ouya and most likely would never buy one, the skepticism surrounding it seems based upon a misinterpretation of what it actually will be. If a Chinese company can sell this for $70 today, I don't doubt that next year basically the same thing could be sold for $100 with a cheap gamepad included with it. That is what the Ouya is going to be: a small, cheap computer running Android like that with a cheap gamepad that has a couple of tilt switches in it. Anyone looking for an XBOX or even a Wii is barking up the wrong tree.

No, that's not really accurate. The skepticism about the Ouya is not solely derived from their hardware plan. Building a small Android box is certainly doable, although 9 million is not a lot of capital to do so and they have already wasted money on a PR specialist for example. The skepticism comes from their liberal use of "creative" marketing, their incredibly vague business plan and the lack of any platform software so far.

They want to sell a box with a hackable software platform. Laudable but not terribly realistic. Publishers are going to run screaming from an open STB, particularly when its installed base is going to be less than 60k and the potential for piracy is massive. They didn't even have final hardware specs or even much of the software platform built as of the latest interview yet they want to launch in March 2013. Finally they have given some very shifty statements in the Kickstarter campaign about what games would be available and what companies were on board. Julie also seems to promise the world during interviews but gets cagey on details when cornered by the press.

I just don't see them building all of this in 6 months with 9 million dollars. It's quite possible the Ouya will happen and be everything people want. Anyone not skeptical based on what we've seen so far is being overly optimistic.
 
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12. Re: Google Doodles Sep 6, 2012, 07:43 Julio
 
Kickstarter is a gamble, but then so is buying anything from EA or Ubi. 95% of their games are garbage yet gamers continue to buy from them.  
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11. Google Doodles Sep 6, 2012, 03:18 jdreyer
 
Doodles are cool, but honestly, so are the beautiful Bing background photos. But I use Google b/c the results are better. Period. The end.  
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10. Ouya is not a scam, but it's not much either. Sep 6, 2012, 00:22 hb3d
 
ASeven wrote on Sep 5, 2012, 21:03:
Yeah, the Ouya screamed scam with every detail that came out.
While I would never give money to pre-purchase an Ouya and most likely would never buy one, the skepticism surrounding it seems based upon a misinterpretation of what it actually will be. If a Chinese company can sell this for $70 today, I don't doubt that next year basically the same thing could be sold for $100 with a cheap gamepad included with it. That is what the Ouya is going to be: a small, cheap computer running Android like that with a cheap gamepad that has a couple of tilt switches in it. Anyone looking for an XBOX or even a Wii is barking up the wrong tree.
 
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9. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 5, 2012, 23:11 jacobvandy
 
Tom wrote on Sep 5, 2012, 22:48:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 5, 2012, 21:36:
Yeah, I'm very cautious about this. I like the idea in theory, but where's the software going to come from?

Perhaps one or two things might come from the 826+ people who paid $699 or more to get early dev kits?

Perhaps... I bet a lot of those people just wanted it early and are not interested in developing anything at all.
 
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8. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 5, 2012, 22:48 Tom
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 5, 2012, 21:36:
Yeah, I'm very cautious about this. I like the idea in theory, but where's the software going to come from?

Perhaps one or two things might come from the 826+ people who paid $699 or more to get early dev kits?
 
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7. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 5, 2012, 22:31 Sepharo
 
John wrote on Sep 5, 2012, 22:28:
I really like those like Double Fine's Adventure game Kickstart because they constantly update their backer forums with info and videos of their progress. I think it's great that we will get to see the entire progress from brainstorming and concept art to programming and development of the game. And Tim Schafer is too cool..

The DFA documentary is my favorite show on TV (my computer) right now. Shame it's so long between new episodes.
 
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6. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 5, 2012, 22:28 John
 
nin wrote on Sep 5, 2012, 21:05:
I don't think it's a scam, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near successful, either...

It already is successful... for the developers!

Seriously though, I have backed several projects so far and hope none of them fail to deliver. Most are by companies that have made or do make similar products as the ones they got funded though so I'm not too worried about them. I'm sure some may not deliver on time but a little delay would be ok.

I really like those like Double Fine's Adventure game Kickstart because they constantly update their backer forums with info and videos of their progress. I think it's great that we will get to see the entire progress from brainstorming and concept art to programming and development of the game. And Tim Schafer is too cool..
 
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5. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 5, 2012, 21:36 jdreyer
 
nin wrote on Sep 5, 2012, 21:05:
I don't think it's a scam, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near successful, either...


Yeah, I'm very cautious about this. I like the idea in theory, but where's the software going to come from? Although Angry Birds Space on my big screen TV would be kind of cool. For a couple of hours.

On the other hand, Epic says they have the full Unreal engine running on Android using Tegra graphics, so maybe we'll see some "real" games on it at some point.
 
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4. Re: Evening Metaverse Sep 5, 2012, 21:07 Beamer
 
nin wrote on Sep 5, 2012, 21:05:
I don't think it's a scam, but I don't think it's going to be anywhere near successful, either...


Absolutely not a scam. These people believe they'll release a product and believe in their claims.

Plenty of bad products come to market every day by people that believe it's worthwhile.
 
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