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Morning Tech Bits

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42. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 17:03 noman
 
DangerDog wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 16:56:
Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 16:52:
So if you buy Plants vs. Zombies for your phone/tablet you wouldn't like to also be able to play it on your PC?

Not the metro version, no.

Why not? I can understand if you don't like Skype in metro mode, but PC games are one set of applications that already share too many of the metro aesthetics... (chrome-less, each one with unique interface, full-screen etc)

I'd also prefer buying regular version compared to the metro version, but if I already have a WindowsPhone game like Line Birds or Wordament, then it's nice to have access on the PC as well.
 
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41. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 16:56 DangerDog
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 16:52:
So if you buy Plants vs. Zombies for your phone/tablet you wouldn't like to also be able to play it on your PC?

Not the metro version, no.

Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 16:52:

Do Apple? customers think they can run Mac software on their iPad?

I doubt it since Apple doesn't sell a version of the iPad that can run the "desktop" app. Some may thought they could though.

I'm sure some will promptly return their "Surface" when they find out that the WinRT version doesn't let them run x86 programs.

This comment was edited on Aug 23, 2012, 17:01.
 
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40. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 16:52 gilly775
 
RailWizard wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:43:
It's a ThermalTake MEKA and guess what key it doesn't have on it...

CTRL-ESC works too
 
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39. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 16:52 Beamer
 
DangerDog wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:41:
Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:23:
DangerDog wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:20:
avianflu wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.

And if you're going to start over from scratch with all your programs then you're much better off with buying an ipad or android based tablet. The 7" form factor is what seems most popular, compact enough for travel yet big enough to still be usable as an e-reader and watch movies on.

I wouldn't pay more than $100 for a Metro RT tablet.

Well, it depends.
If you have iOS or Androids apps you can use them on your iOS or Android device.
If you have Windows RT you can use those apps on your desktop/laptop.

That's a pretty large advantage.

With reduced functionality of any app made for a tablet I wouldn't be using it on my desktop computer as there are always going to be better alternatives, many of them free.



So if you buy Plants vs. Zombies for your phone/tablet you wouldn't like to also be able to play it on your PC?
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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38. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 16:52 Beamer
 
DangerDog wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:28:
Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:22:
avianflu wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.

I don't see how this should be too complicated.

Windows RT = iOS or Android.
Windows 8 tablets = laptop in a desktop form.

Consumers likely won't be too confused because almost all of them will be funneled into RT. The other tablets are for power users and business types. If you're confused in any way, shape or form you get RT. It's the exact same thing as every other tablet on the market.

Except for the fact that lots of people will assume they can run PC Desktop apps on the "Surface". They hide the Windows RT spec from the marketing of the device, only the price difference between a "Surface" that only runs metro or one that can run desktop apps would give it away. I doubt most big box retailers will even carry the desktop capable version.

Clueless Customer: "Oh, so this is that new Microsoft Tablet for Windows?"

Generic Sales Idiot: "Yep"

Do Apple? customers think they can run Mac software on their iPad?
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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37. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 16:45 noman
 
Verno wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
gilly775 wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 14:57:
So don't use it. I go into the Start Screen to search, not to click on pretty looking tiles. While it does cater to tablets, it still is a functional OS that has allowed me to open items faster than searching for the same things in the Start Menu in 7.

You have to use it, that's the point and what is rubbing many people the wrong way. There are many ways to trigger Metro, you get bounced into it for everything from search to plugging in a second monitor to shutting down the machine.

Plugging in multiple-monitor doesn't need start screen. In fact, desktop mode with multiple-monitor works even better in Win8 than previous versions. Shutting down the machine can also be done from desktop, unless you consider the five icons that get overlayed on to the desktop as some sort of start screen. It's a new way to shut down the PC, but you are not leaving the desktop mode.

Microsoft went out of its way to prevent most forms of booting straight to the desktop.

Sleep/wake-up cycle doesn't begin with Start screen though, which is what most people would run more often, especially with notebooks. I very rarely turn off a desktop PC (using sleep mode instead) so I truly never see start screen until I have to, and when I do I still find it more useful than the utterly useless start-menu.

In any case, even if you power on the PC ten times during the day (and not closing and opening a notebook lid, which won't show you start screen), what's the big deal in hitting a button to go to desktop.

 
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36. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:50 DangerDog
 
RailWizard wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:38:
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems like the only reason microsoft is pushing Metro so hard is because of the app store. Is that right?

It's like they've figured out how to make windows into a F2P type deal where they plan to microtransact the ever loving shit out of all us peons.

It all seems pretty ridiculous given that almost nobody has a touch screen monitor(does anyone even sell those?) and Metro is obviously designed for exactly that.

It's really hard to believe that after all these years MS can be this arrogantly stupid. I guess some lessons need to be learned more than once for some people.

It will take a lot to get me off win7. This I know.

They have a whole generation of peons that have become accustomed to paying MS a monthly fee (Xbox Live Gold) and doing all their transactions in MS fake currency (Xbox points). It only seems logical that they would want to cater to this demographic by putting up an app store and force people into buying programs exclusively from them. They would probably love to do the same for desktop apps but it seems that rather than do that they're going to try to kill the desktop altogether - in baby steps.

Next stage in the master plan, why would you need the desktop anyway when you can do everything on "the cloud"?
 
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35. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:43 RailWizard
 
gilly775 wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:33:
Verno wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
gilly775 wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 14:57:
So don't use it. I go into the Start Screen to search, not to click on pretty looking tiles. While it does cater to tablets, it still is a functional OS that has allowed me to open items faster than searching for the same things in the Start Menu in 7.

You have to use it, that's the point and what is rubbing many people the wrong way. There are many ways to trigger Metro, you get bounced into it for everything from search to plugging in a second monitor to shutting down the machine. Microsoft went out of its way to prevent most forms of booting straight to the desktop. They even ripped out legacy Start code in an effort to prevent people avoiding its use then they tied it into many other areas of functionality.

I can understand people liking Metro but what I don't get is people who seem to think that others are whining because they don't like being bounced between two jarringly different interfaces. Having a tablet mode would not have been a difficult thing, Windows 7 already laid the ground work.

Ok, I'm speaking of the Start Screen and you are talking about Metro. I have no issues with Metro, it doesn't take that much to hit Windows key + I to power it down and I actually like the popups when you plug in a USB drive. If anything, it also helps those that can't see well.

I finally had to break down and buy a new keyboard after building my latest computer due to not being able to get my trusty IBM Ps2 KB working on it. It's a ThermalTake MEKA and guess what key it doesn't have on it...

Yes, it was a bit of a snap decision and I should've paid more attention, but other than having NO windows key and a bit of a weird layout, it's pretty awesome.
 
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34. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:41 DangerDog
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:23:
DangerDog wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:20:
avianflu wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.

And if you're going to start over from scratch with all your programs then you're much better off with buying an ipad or android based tablet. The 7" form factor is what seems most popular, compact enough for travel yet big enough to still be usable as an e-reader and watch movies on.

I wouldn't pay more than $100 for a Metro RT tablet.

Well, it depends.
If you have iOS or Androids apps you can use them on your iOS or Android device.
If you have Windows RT you can use those apps on your desktop/laptop.

That's a pretty large advantage.

With reduced functionality of any app made for a tablet I wouldn't be using it on my desktop computer as there are always going to be better alternatives, many of them free.

Being able to buy solitaire for a WinRT based Surface and allowing a user to download the x86 version for their desktop isn't that big of a bonus.

Microsoft will lock their Surface down so that only programs acquired from their app store will work on the device, Android is much more open in terms of being able to create programs for your tablet or "side load" apps that aren't on/from the google play store. Microsoft is blundering that aspect because it was the openness of DOS and Windows that made them what they are today.

 
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33. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:38 RailWizard
 
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems like the only reason microsoft is pushing Metro so hard is because of the app store. Is that right?

It's like they've figured out how to make windows into a F2P type deal where they plan to microtransact the ever loving shit out of all us peons.

It all seems pretty ridiculous given that almost nobody has a touch screen monitor(does anyone even sell those?) and Metro is obviously designed for exactly that.

It's really hard to believe that after all these years MS can be this arrogantly stupid. I guess some lessons need to be learned more than once for some people.

It will take a lot to get me off win7. This I know.
 
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32. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:33 gilly775
 
Verno wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
gilly775 wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 14:57:
So don't use it. I go into the Start Screen to search, not to click on pretty looking tiles. While it does cater to tablets, it still is a functional OS that has allowed me to open items faster than searching for the same things in the Start Menu in 7.

You have to use it, that's the point and what is rubbing many people the wrong way. There are many ways to trigger Metro, you get bounced into it for everything from search to plugging in a second monitor to shutting down the machine. Microsoft went out of its way to prevent most forms of booting straight to the desktop. They even ripped out legacy Start code in an effort to prevent people avoiding its use then they tied it into many other areas of functionality.

I can understand people liking Metro but what I don't get is people who seem to think that others are whining because they don't like being bounced between two jarringly different interfaces. Having a tablet mode would not have been a difficult thing, Windows 7 already laid the ground work.

Ok, I'm speaking of the Start Screen and you are talking about Metro. I have no issues with Metro, it doesn't take that much to hit Windows key + I to power it down and I actually like the popups when you plug in a USB drive. If anything, it also helps those that can't see well.
 
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31. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:28 DangerDog
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:22:
avianflu wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.

I don't see how this should be too complicated.

Windows RT = iOS or Android.
Windows 8 tablets = laptop in a desktop form.

Consumers likely won't be too confused because almost all of them will be funneled into RT. The other tablets are for power users and business types. If you're confused in any way, shape or form you get RT. It's the exact same thing as every other tablet on the market.

Except for the fact that lots of people will assume they can run PC Desktop apps on the "Surface". They hide the Windows RT spec from the marketing of the device, only the price difference between a "Surface" that only runs metro or one that can run desktop apps would give it away. I doubt most big box retailers will even carry the desktop capable version.

Clueless Customer: "Oh, so this is that new Microsoft Tablet for Windows?"

Generic Sales Idiot: "Yep"
 
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30. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:23 Beamer
 
DangerDog wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:20:
avianflu wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.

And if you're going to start over from scratch with all your programs then you're much better off with buying an ipad or android based tablet. The 7" form factor is what seems most popular, compact enough for travel yet big enough to still be usable as an e-reader and watch movies on.

I wouldn't pay more than $100 for a Metro RT tablet.

Well, it depends.
If you have iOS or Androids apps you can use them on your iOS or Android device.
If you have Windows RT you can use those apps on your desktop/laptop.

That's a pretty large advantage.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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29. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:22 Beamer
 
avianflu wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.

I don't see how this should be too complicated.

Windows RT = iOS or Android.
Windows 8 tablets = laptop in a desktop form.

Consumers likely won't be too confused because almost all of them will be funneled into RT. The other tablets are for power users and business types. If you're confused in any way, shape or form you get RT. It's the exact same thing as every other tablet on the market.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
28. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:20 DangerDog
 
avianflu wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.

And if you're going to start over from scratch with all your programs then you're much better off with buying an ipad or android based tablet. The 7" form factor is what seems most popular, compact enough for travel yet big enough to still be usable as an e-reader and watch movies on.

I wouldn't pay more than $100 for a Metro RT tablet.
 
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27. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:14 Verno
 
avianflu wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 15:04:
Sorry but for folks who use lots of different applications to get actual work done in the course of a day, no, win8 is not better. Your only real solution is to use keyboard shortcuts to maintain speed and efficiency.

For sure, If you arent already using alt-tab, you absolutely will be addicted to it with Win8.

For websurfers on touch tablets who are skimming content? Sure they can go crazy with win 8 and more power to them.

Metro coded apps _must_ run in the metro interface and non-metro "classic" apps can run only in the "classic" interface. Newer apps may have functionality in both interfaces but not offer the same functionality.

Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.

Indeed, I had a lot of fun just explaining the difference between WinRT and Windows RT already to some people here. Even if I loved Metro itself, WinRT apps are subject to restrictions and approval from Microsoft that can really harm functionality and developer's ability to innovate. That should not be discounted when considering Windows 8 adoption.

As for Metro, no one would care if it wasn't being forced on them, Windows 8 would likely be getting a different reception. It's being forced on them for financial considerations which is even worse, not because it's such a great user interface or something. I really hope people don't get behind that.

This comment was edited on Aug 23, 2012, 15:22.
 
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26. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:12 DangerDog
 
Maybe when Microsoft fails at the Tablet market, yet again, they'll come back to the desktop users begging for forgiveness.

I'll wait for Windows 9 when they'll add in a super new "power user" feature to disable metro completely.

Till then, Windows 7 will be my new XP.
 
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25. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:11 LC
 
gilly775 wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 14:59:
This is why I would stick with Linux if I can get all of my games to run on it flawlessly.

I've been looking at possible replacements for XP recently and it looks like I'm going with Ubuntu. I've been testing it out for about a week now and so far I'm having really good luck with my games on Wine.

Being a cheap bastard the $0 price tag is also really appealing.
 
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24. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:04 avianflu
 
Sorry but for folks who use lots of different applications to get actual work done in the course of a day, no, win8 is not better. Your only real solution is to use keyboard shortcuts to maintain speed and efficiency.

For sure, If you arent already using alt-tab, you absolutely will be addicted to it with Win8.

For websurfers on touch tablets who are skimming content? Sure they can go crazy with win 8 and more power to them.

Metro coded apps _must_ run in the metro interface and non-metro "classic" apps can run only in the "classic" interface. Newer apps may have functionality in both interfaces but not offer the same functionality.

Note further that the "Metro RT tablets" are different from "Metro tablets" and can only run metro apps. RT tablets cannot run regular windows apps. Consumers will be very confused by all of this.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
23. Re: Morning Tech Bits Aug 23, 2012, 15:04 Verno
 
gilly775 wrote on Aug 23, 2012, 14:57:
So don't use it. I go into the Start Screen to search, not to click on pretty looking tiles. While it does cater to tablets, it still is a functional OS that has allowed me to open items faster than searching for the same things in the Start Menu in 7.

You have to use it, that's the point and what is rubbing many people the wrong way. There are many ways to trigger Metro, you get bounced into it for everything from search to plugging in a second monitor to shutting down the machine. Microsoft went out of its way to prevent most forms of booting straight to the desktop. They even ripped out legacy Start code in an effort to prevent people avoiding its use then they tied it into many other areas of functionality.

I can understand people liking Metro but what I don't get is people who seem to think that others are whining because they don't like being bounced between two jarringly different interfaces. Having a tablet mode would not have been a difficult thing, Windows 7 already laid the ground work.
 
Avatar 51617
 
Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: The Fall, The Walking Dead, Leon
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62 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 2.
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