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Steam Top 10

Here's Valve's list of the 10 bestselling games for the week on their Steam service:

  1. Counter-Strike Glopal Offensive
  2. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Dawnguard
  3. Arma II Combined Operations
  4. Borderlands 2
  5. Orcs Must Die! 2
  6. Counter-Strike Complete
  7. PAYDAY: The Heist
  8. Sleeping Dogs
  9. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
  10. Legends of Pegasus

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52 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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52. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 14, 2012, 13:27 StingingVelvet
 
ItBurn wrote on Aug 14, 2012, 08:28:
Most people prefer New Vegas simply because it was made by some of the devs who worked on the original fallout. I'm not sure if it's the case for you guys, but maybe this will enlighten you: I've never been a fan of the original fallouts.

Or perhaps we enjoy it because it has deeper roleplaying elements, better quest design, better writing, greater difficulty AND has ties to the previous games.

You don't like consequences, we get that. Nothing wrong with preferring FO3 for it's better exploration and relaxed roleplaying, but don't belittle our points.
 
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51. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 14, 2012, 09:44 Beamer
 
NV was much better writing (talking to Caesar was a blast), and featured much better interaction.

That said, I finished FO3. I did not finish NV. With NV I was somewhat overwhelmed with choice (after decades of being conditioned to be able to see everything), and after getting annoyed with Caesar and going on a rampage killing his entire camp I said "screw it" and went and killed everyone involved in your initial quest. After that it felt as if there was nothing to do. Yeah, there's the dam, or whatever, but at that point of the game the dam had hardly been mentioned so it didn't seem important. I was left with no purpose. Add in the bugs I was hitting trying to advance companion quests and I got fed up.

But I call that user error over game issues.
 
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50. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 14, 2012, 08:58 Verno
 
ItBurn wrote on Aug 14, 2012, 08:17:
Gaining negative standing with a faction when noone sees you and noone knows it was you is a major issue! Can't you see that? FO3 gave me choices that fit with my play style, Vegas did not. In FO3 it felt like I was truly making my own choices, in Vegas it felt like I was following one of a couple of rigid paths.

The faction gain/loss thing is a gameplay mechanic, it's not supposed to be 100% realistic. Maybe someone saw you go in there and the person was murdered so they put two and two together. It's supposed to be a living world and the player isn't supposed to be omniscient but at some point you have to realize you're playing a game. There were a few NPCs in FO3 that had similar conditions.

There aren't really just a few paths in New Vegas, there are 4 major factions and a half dozen minor factions. Quests often have several branches, conditions and other criteria that make replay value pretty great. There is a lot of complexity to the quest system as well, go look up the conditions for some of the follower quests as an example.

I mean don't get me wrong, if you liked FO3 more then that's your choice dude and I respect that. I'm just saying that if you went back and replayed FO:NV, I think you'd find it a bit deeper than you're giving it credit for. I loved FO3 for different reasons but FO:NV was a much deeper experience.
 
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49. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 14, 2012, 08:28 ItBurn
 
Ok, so Jerykk, you thought that the world didn't make sense? Worlds in video games never make sense... The new Vegas world did not make sense either. Perhaps it was a little more believable because of all the crops near Vegas? Does that really make it a better game? I mean, it takes one minute of play time for the illusion of reality to shatter.

To me FO3 was a more believable world because you could do anything you wanted and it wouldn't break the game. In new Vegas, there were mechanics that prevented you from doing so, unfairly, and this often/finally made the illusion of choice disappear. And that's fatal, to me, for a role playing game.

Most people prefer New Vegas simply because it was made by some of the devs who worked on the original fallout. I'm not sure if it's the case for you guys, but maybe this will enlighten you: I've never been a fan of the original fallouts.
 
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48. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 14, 2012, 08:17 ItBurn
 
Gaining negative standing with a faction when noone sees you and noone knows it was you is a major issue! Can't you see that? FO3 gave me choices that fit with my play style, Vegas did not. In FO3 it felt like I was truly making my own choices, in Vegas it felt like I was following one of a couple of rigid paths.

Jesus you guys wrote a lot of text, give me a minute.
 
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47. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 14, 2012, 00:46 StingingVelvet
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 23:47:
So... yeah. FO3's locales weren't written with any sort of logical coherence or any real sense of history. It's like Bethesda's writers tried to come up with unique ideas and failed to actually flesh them out. Compare this to FNV, where every location has a real sense of history and relevance to the lore. Also, the locales actually make sense.

Fallout 3 is more like a circus with rides and attractions, weird neat shit to see. Some people really like that. I liked it for a while. It's nowhere near as good as an immersive roleplaying world for me, but some people have different priorities.

Morrowind and Skyrim were much better, so one hopes they are swinging back around.
 
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46. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 23:47 Jerykk
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 20:27:
ItBurn wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 14:19:
But it's just true(to me). In FO3, I did exactly what I wanted all the time. In New Vegas, I constantly had to compromise and there were some really shitty mechanics. Like, I wanted to kill a scientist at the bottom of a dungeon. This would allow me to finish the quest the way I wanted to. If I did that tho, I would lose reputation with a faction, even tho NOONE else was there and I was undetected, making this course of action impossible. There were a ton of other examples like that. You must finish the mission in one of two very rigid ways, none of which were what I wanted to do.

Quest example from FO3: Guy asks you to find x amount of keys to open a secret vault with lots of loot. He doesn't want to tell you where it is. Let's forget the lengthy part where you get the keys. You get all the keys, then you can figure out yourself where it is if you have the skills, if not, you can give him the keys, and follow him there, or give him the keys, then learn of where it is and go there to share the loot, or find out another way where the place is, or even kill the guy, or finally, the way I did it, give him the keys, learn where the vault is, then pickpocket the keys back and leave. None of this would break the quest and the guy would always react accordingly.

The FO3 quest you mention is one of very few like that. New Vegas has soooooooo many more quests with multiple paths and results that I am literally baffled you think otherwise. Judging from your first paragraph I am wondering if perhaps you just disliked the consequences to your decisions that New Vegas doled out. Consequences to your choices, like upsetting a faction, is what RPGs are all about IMO.

Skyrim actually introduces a minor bit of that with the civil war and some random quests, plus Danwguard has it with the vamps versus the hunters. It's nowhere near New Vegas quality but it was nice to see from Bethesda.

This. Gaining a negative reputation with a faction is a natural repercussion to doing something that faction doesn't like. Granted, it's stupid that you can lose reputation without there being any witnesses but I'm pretty sure that's a balancing mechanic. Given how open-ended FNV is, you could probably kill every member of a faction without losing any reputation were it not for the omniscient reputation system. It's like the karma system in both FO3 and FNV, where you can lose karma for hacking and stealing, even if nobody sees you do it.

In terms of branching quest design, FO3 was definitely a step up from Bethesda's other games. However, it was still pretty weak compared to FNV. If FO3 were more like FNV, you'd be able to align yourself with the Brotherhood of Steel, the Brotherhood Outcasts, the Super Mutants, the Slavers or the Enclave.

And don't get me started on writing. Oh man, where to begin. Okay, let's look at the various locales you visit in FO3.

Megaton: Why would any human build a town around an unexploded nuclear bomb that's leaking radiation? It makes no sense whatsoever unless you're a ghoul that thrives on radiation.

Tenpenny Tower: Big, fancy hotel standing tall out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by raiders, super mutants, mutants, killer robots, etc. Number of guards: 5? Maybe 4? None of them are heavily armed or armored either. How exactly did Tenpenny Tower not get invaded/destroyed?

Little Lamplight: So a class of kids get stuck in a cave when the bombs drop. Somehow, generations of those kids survive for hundreds of years within that cave. How? Cave fungus? Really? I seriously doubt 20+ children could survive for a month off of cave fungus, letalone generations of kids. Even if you ignore that, how exactly are these kids fending off raiders, super mutants, deathclaws, etc? Like the guards at Tenpenny Tower, these kids are neither heavily armed nor heavily armored.

Cannibal town: A family survives by eating people. None of the family has any armor or firearms. How exactly did they survive, letalone kill people?

Big Town: Bunch of incompetent, poorly armed and armored people living near an area full of super mutants. This town has apparently been around for years despite this.

So... yeah. FO3's locales weren't written with any sort of logical coherence or any real sense of history. It's like Bethesda's writers tried to come up with unique ideas and failed to actually flesh them out. Compare this to FNV, where every location has a real sense of history and relevance to the lore. Also, the locales actually make sense.

And then we have the dialogue. Worst skill checks ever. Seriously, I facepalmed myself on many occasions, it was so bad. The vast majority of skill checks were completely superficial and had no meaningful impact on the course of the conversation. Secondly, the skill checks were really, really poorly written. For example, you might get a Science, Charisma and Intelligence way of describing how a bunch of raiders took over a supermarket, except the each line is only slightly different from the other and in no way representative of the skill check itself.

This comment was edited on Aug 14, 2012, 00:04.
 
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45. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 20:27 StingingVelvet
 
ItBurn wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 14:19:
But it's just true(to me). In FO3, I did exactly what I wanted all the time. In New Vegas, I constantly had to compromise and there were some really shitty mechanics. Like, I wanted to kill a scientist at the bottom of a dungeon. This would allow me to finish the quest the way I wanted to. If I did that tho, I would lose reputation with a faction, even tho NOONE else was there and I was undetected, making this course of action impossible. There were a ton of other examples like that. You must finish the mission in one of two very rigid ways, none of which were what I wanted to do.

Quest example from FO3: Guy asks you to find x amount of keys to open a secret vault with lots of loot. He doesn't want to tell you where it is. Let's forget the lengthy part where you get the keys. You get all the keys, then you can figure out yourself where it is if you have the skills, if not, you can give him the keys, and follow him there, or give him the keys, then learn of where it is and go there to share the loot, or find out another way where the place is, or even kill the guy, or finally, the way I did it, give him the keys, learn where the vault is, then pickpocket the keys back and leave. None of this would break the quest and the guy would always react accordingly.

The FO3 quest you mention is one of very few like that. New Vegas has soooooooo many more quests with multiple paths and results that I am literally baffled you think otherwise. Judging from your first paragraph I am wondering if perhaps you just disliked the consequences to your decisions that New Vegas doled out. Consequences to your choices, like upsetting a faction, is what RPGs are all about IMO.

Skyrim actually introduces a minor bit of that with the civil war and some random quests, plus Danwguard has it with the vamps versus the hunters. It's nowhere near New Vegas quality but it was nice to see from Bethesda.
 
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44. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 16:42 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 12:58:
Nah my nostalgia goggles only seem to kick in for things 10+ years old. Oblivion had some very notable quests and so did Fallout 3. Very few Skyrim quests stand out by comparison, there was a greater focus on quantity over quality. The murder mystery at the lighthouse (which quickly turns generic) and the Thieves Guild stuff were the only ones I can even recall as memorable offhand. Just even doing a basic comparison between something like the Mage Guild questlines in the various games is pretty telling.

I just don't remember it that way at all, but short of replaying them right now there's no real way to be sure I suppose.
 
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43. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 14:19 ItBurn
 
Verno wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 13:55:
ItBurn wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 13:25:
I completely disagree. Bethesda's quests were less linear and allowed for a lot more choices. The writing itself was very similar. I found Fallout 3 better than New Vegas in almost all areas.

I'm with SV on that one, the quality of the writing and the quest design in New Vegas is heads and tails above FO3. Most quests have several different resolutions, decisions made are much more meaningful and there is a fair bit of branching that doesn't really exist in FO3. You're literally the first person I've ever heard say they thought FO3 had better writing and quest design.

I thought FO3 had better open world exploration, there was more stuff to find and it would often have some back story attached. That's really about all it did better though IMO.

Yeah, I haven't heard anyone else with my opinion either :p

But it's just true(to me). In FO3, I did exactly what I wanted all the time. In New Vegas, I constantly had to compromise and there were some really shitty mechanics. Like, I wanted to kill a scientist at the bottom of a dungeon. This would allow me to finish the quest the way I wanted to. If I did that tho, I would lose reputation with a faction, even tho NOONE else was there and I was undetected, making this course of action impossible. There were a ton of other examples like that. You must finish the mission in one of two very rigid ways, none of which were what I wanted to do.

Quest example from FO3: Guy asks you to find x amount of keys to open a secret vault with lots of loot. He doesn't want to tell you where it is. Let's forget the lengthy part where you get the keys. You get all the keys, then you can figure out yourself where it is if you have the skills, if not, you can give him the keys, and follow him there, or give him the keys, then learn of where it is and go there to share the loot, or find out another way where the place is, or even kill the guy, or finally, the way I did it, give him the keys, learn where the vault is, then pickpocket the keys back and leave. None of this would break the quest and the guy would always react accordingly.

This comment was edited on Aug 13, 2012, 14:25.
 
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42. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 13:55 Verno
 
ItBurn wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 13:25:
I completely disagree. Bethesda's quests were less linear and allowed for a lot more choices. The writing itself was very similar. I found Fallout 3 better than New Vegas in almost all areas.

I'm with SV on that one, the quality of the writing and the quest design in New Vegas is heads and tails above FO3. Most quests have several different resolutions, decisions made are much more meaningful and there is a fair bit of branching that doesn't really exist in FO3. You're literally the first person I've ever heard say they thought FO3 had better writing and quest design.

I thought FO3 had better open world exploration, there was more stuff to find and it would often have some back story attached. That's really about all it did better though IMO.
 
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41. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 13:25 ItBurn
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 12:37:
Bethesda have never been good at quest design and the only good writer they had, MK, left after Morrowind. So I think there is some nostalgia goggles being worn in here. The "Fallout 3 had good writing and multiple ways to do a quest" line is especially lulz.

New Vegas had good quest design and writing, but then it lacked Bethesda's talent at world building and rewarding exploration.

Honestly Obsidian and Bethesda need to merge into one super developer!

I completely disagree. Bethesda's quests were less linear and allowed for a lot more choices. The writing itself was very similar. I found Fallout 3 better than New Vegas in almost all areas.
 
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40. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 12:58 Verno
 
Bethesda have never been good at quest design and the only good writer they had, MK, left after Morrowind. blah blah nostalgia goggles blah

Nah my nostalgia goggles only seem to kick in for things 10+ years old. Oblivion had some very notable quests and so did Fallout 3. Very few Skyrim quests stand out by comparison, there was a greater focus on quantity over quality. The murder mystery at the lighthouse (which quickly turns generic) and the Thieves Guild stuff were the only ones I can even recall as memorable offhand. Just even doing a basic comparison between something like the Mage Guild questlines in the various games is pretty telling.

Writing quality is a different story but it's hard to determine whether this is just very weak writing or the writing is poor because the structure has to accommodate the poor variety of quest types. Maybe a little from both. I do agree that Obsidian with Bethesda's tech is RPG bliss, I loved New Vegas and you're right that FO3 had better exploration.

This comment was edited on Aug 13, 2012, 13:03.
 
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39. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 12:37 StingingVelvet
 
Bethesda have never been good at quest design and the only good writer they had, MK, left after Morrowind. So I think there is some nostalgia goggles being worn in here. The "Fallout 3 had good writing and multiple ways to do a quest" line is especially lulz.

New Vegas had good quest design and writing, but then it lacked Bethesda's talent at world building and rewarding exploration.

Honestly Obsidian and Bethesda need to merge into one super developer!
 
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38. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 11:48 ItBurn
 
Verno wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 11:37:
I think the main problems with Skyrim were the inconsistent writing and quest variety, the DLC doesn't really do much to improve those situations unfortunately. I wasn't exactly in love with the combat system either but at least it was a step up from Oblivion. Base game already has a ton of repetitive content, I don't really want DLC packs filled with those. I'd really like to see better themed expansions for the factions with unique quests.

There are some fan mods that add some interesting quests but they lack the production values in official content. Still hoping for a proper Shivering Isles style expansion pack, Dawnguard is far from that. In hindsight I should have listened to the reviews and waited but oh well, I've spent money in worse ways. To anyone on the fence though I'd definitely say wait for a sale.

That's the thing I hate the most about Skyrim. The quests. They are incredibly linear and simple. There are barely any dialogue choices and you can only very rarely complete them in alternate ways. In Fallout 3, there were pretty much always a ton of ways to do a quest and the writing was more interesting.

The gameplay for quests in Skyrim is pretty good tho. There's almost always a dungeon attached and those are very well done and always have a unique twist.

You can't really be evil in Skyrim, and that's a bummer. There are some evil choices here and there, but most of the time, you're forced to go along with the quest so that it doesn't break.
 
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37. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 11:37 Verno
 
I think the main problems with Skyrim were the inconsistent writing and quest variety, the DLC doesn't really do much to improve those situations unfortunately. I wasn't exactly in love with the combat system either but at least it was a step up from Oblivion. Base game already has a ton of repetitive content, I don't really want DLC packs filled with those. I'd really like to see better themed expansions for the factions with unique quests.

There are some fan mods that add some interesting quests but they lack the production values in official content. Still hoping for a proper Shivering Isles style expansion pack, Dawnguard is far from that. In hindsight I should have listened to the reviews and waited but oh well, I've spent money in worse ways. To anyone on the fence though I'd definitely say wait for a sale.
 
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36. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 10:57 StingingVelvet
 
Dades wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 07:29:
7/10 isn't a good score these days considering most sources seem to use 8-10 as a scale. Many reviews also complain about an alarming amount of bugs and that the quest content it does add is very underwhelming even in the context of the original game. A few even go as far as calling it very overpriced for what little it delivers.

Maybe most games are in the 7-10 range because most games are pretty good, all things considered? I know when I play a real crap game like, say, Rogue Warrior, I am shocked and instantly reminded most big releases are pretty good considering.

Anyway...

It might be a tad overpriced at $20, mainly because the two new land masses are relatively empty, but it's certainly larger than a $10 DLC and adds a lot to the core game outside the new questline. It depends on your priorities I guess, but most big Skyrim fans like myself are going to be thrilled to have it I suspect.
 
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35. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 10:38 Creston
 
jomisab wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 09:35:
How many more weeks before the main Skyrim game goes out of the top 10?

Pretty impressive run.

I wonder what's the longest time any title has spent in the top 10. Is Skyrim the record holder?

It's probably one of the Modern Warfares (I think MW2 was in there for 9 months or so), but Skyrim is likely getting close.

Creston
 
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34. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 10:36 Creston
 
Verno wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 10:24:
Prez wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 10:06:
Two games from that list I just bought are Payday Wolfpack and Orcs Must Die 2. The new heists in Payday are nice - worth playing just for the variety. Orcs 2 is just delightfully fun. But damn hard to get 5 skulls on some levels.

OMD2 is just fantastic, I've been going through trying to beat the Nightmare leaderboards scores now. If you get stuck on a level and need a hand toss me a Steam message, I love playing co-op OMD2.

I'm waiting on it to download (may take a day or two), but once I'm in, I'll definitely holla. Should be fun to play this co-op.

Creston
 
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33. Re: Steam Top 10 Aug 13, 2012, 10:24 Verno
 
Prez wrote on Aug 13, 2012, 10:06:
Two games from that list I just bought are Payday Wolfpack and Orcs Must Die 2. The new heists in Payday are nice - worth playing just for the variety. Orcs 2 is just delightfully fun. But damn hard to get 5 skulls on some levels.

OMD2 is just fantastic, I've been going through trying to beat the Nightmare leaderboards scores now. If you get stuck on a level and need a hand toss me a Steam message, I love playing co-op OMD2.
 
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